Following a recent series of high-profile shooting incidents in the United States, the southern state of Tennessee is changing its gun laws this week.
It is relaxing them.
Soon, Tennessee’s bars and restaurants will no longer be off-limits for registered weapons. State legislators – a quarter of whom own firearms – have passed a law allowing guns into bars and restaurants, but preventing their owners from buying alcohol.
The basic wingnut defense.
For the bill’s Democratic sponsor – State Senator Doug Jackson – it is a case of preserving the rights of individuals and those of individual states.
“People are fearful about tomorrow. They feel insecure. And the Second Amendment right is something that they cherish and it’s a means of protecting themselves and their family and defending what they have. It provides security in troubled times.”
Nashville’s police chief, Ronal Serpas does not believe that people who walk into bars with guns will steer clear of the shot glasses.
“If you think about how alchohol influences the choices people make… I don’t believe people are not going to drink and have guns, because I know they drink and drive,” he says.
A well-known restaurateur is fighting back against Tennessee’s newly enacted law that allows gun owners to bring their weapons into bars and restaurants that serve alcohol.
Randy Rayburn, owner of three top-rated restaurants in Nashville, filed a lawsuit on Wednesday challenging the state law’s constitutionality, arguing it creates a public nuisance by threatening the safety of the public…
At least 200,000 Tennesseans have permits allowing them to carry their guns concealed while in public…
Obey the Stupid Fracking Law defense
The new law was pushed by the Tennessee Firearms Association. Its executive director, John Harris, said critics had every opportunity to defeat the legislation — which state lawmakers passed with little opposition — and should not turn to court action at this point…
Rayburn’s lawsuit will receive a hearing on July 13, a day before the law is due to go into force.
Drunks don’t care about any law. Death and DUI statistics in every state in the U.S. bear that out.
One gun advocate in a bar starts an argument over the 2nd Amendment…
“Hey, idjit!…” (BANG!)
Lots of feelings, guesses, fears and stories here. But the main experience we share about concealed carry guns comes not from experience, but by imagination.
Larry Bud (#12) notes that he’s worked in bars and fears for the added element of guns to the drunk mix, and that’s emblematic. But in all his experience, how many folks in front of him really had guns on them that he never saw or had a problem with? No can tell. But you can bet, statistically, that it happened and far more frequently than one might guess.
The Florida stats are interesting, but incomplete. But they suggest that folks with carry permits do visit bars, but don’t become the problem drunks.
Perhaps the real stats on this would come from a nationwide compilation of bar gun incidences in states with and without concealed carry participants.
It’s a lot harder to pull out a gun to threaten someone when you have no idea how many good samaritans in the surrounding population might out-gun you.
As Robert Heinlein has said, “an armed society is a polite society.”
Drunks. Guns. Tennessee.
What could possibly go wrong?
“It’s a lot harder to pull out a gun to threaten someone when you have no idea how many good samaritans in the surrounding population might out-gun you.”
That is only true for someone who would never, ever shoot someone without just cause.
Otherwise, there will always be a dead person before anyone has time to react. How many redneck hot-heads with a few drinks in his veins are there who would just as soon punch you in the face as say hello? Do you think that in a fit of anger he will stop to consider who is packing? Secondly if he makes the first move and kills someone, he already has his gun out. Who is dumb enough to go for their gun when a killer already has his out and has already used it?
Maybe if you were standing behind him you could shoot him in the back. BUT, then again… a normal person would consider that maybe they are missing part of the story and that this “killer” may have been gunning down the murderer of his 5 year-old.
The truth is you would do nothing if you are smart, except take in the details and report them to the cops.
I do not speak for Virginia Tech at all, this is my own opinion.
I hear from many that the whole shooting thing at VT would not have happened had more people had guns. I think they are right. Cho would have been shot sooner. It’s very possible he would have been stopped before he killed more people.
BUT…
We’d have more incidents of gun violence all over the campus and in town.
So, what do you want? Fewer incidents with an occasional person really making a mess of things or several smaller incidents a year (because, honestly, fear of getting shot never stopped any person stupid enough to commit such a crime in the first place) and still the possibility that someone would really make a mess of things? And don’t think that professors don’t get threatened by disgruntled students either. Would you want to be a such a professor if the gun laws were even more lax than they are now? C’mon, Newt Gingrich; come on down and teach here with wide open gun laws.
Now, add to that the amount of alcohol and other substances that float around a typical college town and you see why gun control is a good thing. No, it doesn’t mean prying that shotgun from my hands in my house either. Nor has it ever meant that. Only people who don’t think clearly on gun control oppose it.
25 years murder-free
in ‘Gun Town USA’
Crime rate plummeted after law
required firearms for residents
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=55288
Guns and drunks… great combination.
Guns ans bars…. great combination.
Guns and unsupervised children… great combination.
For every civilian self defense use of a gun, there are over 1400 unlawful killings.
I am not against gun ownership, but gun laws should be reasonable. Gun safety certificates (same as a driver’s license) should be mandatory. Limits on places where guns can be can be carried are reasonable, specially when thinking can be impaired or emotions overly strong (bars, sports events, etc)
But in reality, this new law may be beneficial… if people that hang around in bars end up killing each other off, there probably is not much lost in terms of the genetic pool.
gmknobl
Then we should ban cars is college towns too. After all irresponsible people might misuse such a dangerous machine.
Automobile fatalities are a leading cause of death, lets just ban the automobile everywhere for that matter.
It seems like far too many miss the point here including JohnD or whoever created the headline.
This law allows someone with a permit to carry into a restaurant that serves alcohol for consumption on the premises. Friday’s, Outback, Denny’s, etc. The person with the firearm may not consume alcohol while carrying at the restaurant. So it won’t be a drunk redneck with a gun (or a tank). This same situation is law in about 40 states. I live in Georgia so my math is pretty bad but I would think 2 or 3 of those states are NOT in the South. I can’t for the life of me understand why this is such a big deal when 80% of the states allow this now. Tennessee is simply making their laws more in line with California which allows carry in these same establishments along with state parks, buses, etc. Don’t be jealous for TN copying their liberal gun laws from CA. 🙂
So, Grimjack you are telling us that Eideard blew it again? What a shocker.
Evertime Traaxx types “whatever” I picture a 16 year old vacuous blonde valley girl.
“Like, {tilts head} what-e-var! Lets go shopping.”
Because we all know that someone with a concealed handgun would never order a drink in a bar since it’s a no-no.
# 43 Danman said, “Because we all know that someone with a concealed handgun would never order a drink in a bar since it’s a no-no.”
Apparently it isn’t a problem in states with more people and more violent crime in general. What’s your point?
36 Paddy-0
Ah, it’s always so relevant to compare a town of 25K to a city of 10 million. They’re exactly the same! ROFLMFAO LOLOLOLOLOL!
I once worked in a very cold place that basically had no rules or law ‘enforcement’ whatever. (They just came days later to take away the facts and body)
You would be surprised how well behaved everyone is when everyone is armed with some kind of large calibre weapon.
Concealed or not.
I never saw any disturbance in the bar.
People tended to be well behaved in town also.
Frontier justice.
# 45 Named said, “Ah, it’s always so relevant…”
Umm, yes, I see you have scientific backing for your opinion on this particular issue… Let’s see it. Also, why did crime plummet?
Either put up or admit you are yet another failed lib shill…
#37
Kind of surprised Fusion isn’t demanding you prove/support your numbers with a link…..but not really.
# 37 Awake said, “For every civilian self defense use of a gun…”
Except defensive use isn’t always or nearly always reported. Ergo, no accurate date to compare.
Fail
Some people think of 16 year old when they hear “whatever” I think of immature 12 year olds when I read “ROFLMFAO LOLOLOLOLOL!”
As far as those with Legally concealed weapons goes I am sure there are many that will order a glass of wine or have a single beer.
I don’t do it but I know many that do. Far too many drink “a few” and then get in their 5,000lb SUVs and mow innocent people down everyday. Somehow there isn’t a liberal cry to ban cars (I know there is one to ban SUVs). By the way I drive a Jetta TDI, not your typical southern redneck.
I also know that it isn’t common even in large metro areas to have a licensed CCW person shoot someone at a restaurant that wasn’t a legitimate shooting (getting carjacked or mugged on the way to your car, manager getting robbed at closing time, etc.) I live in metro Atlanta BTW, not LA or SF but a decently large urban area. What I do see on the news everyday are innocent people getting shot during the commission of felonies. Somehow dialing 911 after you have been shot or raped doesn’t work for me or my wife. If I want to take my family to Outback for dinner I should have the right to protect them on the way back to the car. I know 911 isn’t going to prevent the crime.
GJ – I believe Named is intentionally over using LOL as a dig at Patrick.
47, Paddy-o
So, let me get this straight. Absolutely NOTHING happened in that bum-fuck town except gun carrying in the 25 years since they enacted the law that might have contributed to the change in crime? Wow, they’re even more sedentary than the rest of America! You’re statistical expertise is to find a quote that you like and repaste it ad nausea.
50, Grimjack
You obviously didn’t get my dig at Paddy-0. He’s infamous for his LOL’s and ROFL’s. I just take it to the next level!
Do a google for ROFL site:dvorak.org/blog and you’ll find 99% of them belong to Paddy-0.
51, tcc3
You’re powers of observation are greatly appreciated. Thank you!
If anyone cares… go to the Bureau of Justice to get the 2005 stats on deaths by guns. Most states are over 50%. And then look at the wikipedia article on gun laws in the US.
I did and found that when you line them up. Overall it appeared that people kill more with guns than any other weapon and the method of carry or lack thereof meant squat.
Guns are like cameras. Point and shoot and takes no real skill to get average results.
Cursor_
# 52 Named said, “So, let me get this straight.”
The best way to do that is study facts and not think with your emotions…
Thank you for helping me check and correct my statistics.
Between 1987 and 1990, David McDowall found that guns were used in defense during a crime incident 64,615 times annually.
During this same time period, 1987 and 1990, there were 46,319 gun homicides,and the National Crime Victimization Survey estimates that 2,628,532 nonfatal crimes involving guns occurred.
Source, which accounts for statistically expected ‘unreported’ events: ( http://dx.doi.org/10.2105%2FAJPH.84.12.1982)
So there were about 2.7 Million events of gun crime, and 65,000 cases of self defense per year.
55 Paddy-0
“The best way to do that is study facts” Better get busy Paddy-0. There are lots of them out there that you will ignore. ROFLMFAO!
# 56 Awake said, “Between 1987 and 1990, David McDowall found that guns were used in defense during a crime incident 64,615 times annually. ”
Actually, the number isn’t known, only guessed at. Keep working on collecting actual FACTS.
Named,
I think you should consider upgrading to the ultimate in tactical LOLs
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dammit the carrots messed up the roflcopter
Another thread where liberals can come and be owned in 2 posts or less. 😉