Following a recent series of high-profile shooting incidents in the United States, the southern state of Tennessee is changing its gun laws this week.
It is relaxing them.
Soon, Tennessee’s bars and restaurants will no longer be off-limits for registered weapons. State legislators – a quarter of whom own firearms – have passed a law allowing guns into bars and restaurants, but preventing their owners from buying alcohol.
The basic wingnut defense.
For the bill’s Democratic sponsor – State Senator Doug Jackson – it is a case of preserving the rights of individuals and those of individual states.
“People are fearful about tomorrow. They feel insecure. And the Second Amendment right is something that they cherish and it’s a means of protecting themselves and their family and defending what they have. It provides security in troubled times.”
Nashville’s police chief, Ronal Serpas does not believe that people who walk into bars with guns will steer clear of the shot glasses.
“If you think about how alchohol influences the choices people make… I don’t believe people are not going to drink and have guns, because I know they drink and drive,” he says.
A well-known restaurateur is fighting back against Tennessee’s newly enacted law that allows gun owners to bring their weapons into bars and restaurants that serve alcohol.
Randy Rayburn, owner of three top-rated restaurants in Nashville, filed a lawsuit on Wednesday challenging the state law’s constitutionality, arguing it creates a public nuisance by threatening the safety of the public…
At least 200,000 Tennesseans have permits allowing them to carry their guns concealed while in public…
Obey the Stupid Fracking Law defense
The new law was pushed by the Tennessee Firearms Association. Its executive director, John Harris, said critics had every opportunity to defeat the legislation — which state lawmakers passed with little opposition — and should not turn to court action at this point…
Rayburn’s lawsuit will receive a hearing on July 13, a day before the law is due to go into force.
Drunks don’t care about any law. Death and DUI statistics in every state in the U.S. bear that out.
What’s the big deal? Concealed carry laws reduce crime, restrictive gun laws have little or no effect on gun crime. I’m not a wingnut and I don’t own a gun, I’m just looking at statistics.
I’m all for allowing those with concealed carry licenses to carry everywhere. They’ve passed a background check and mandatory training.
It makes no sense to have concealed carry laws and then restrict the places you can go.
I’d like a table for two and a Ruger, please.
I have a concealed weapons permit in Arizona and frequently carry a concealed revolver. Lemme tell ya, it’s really damned annoying to have to take the thing off and secure it every time I’m on the road and want to stop at a Denny’s or Country Kitchen for a cup of coffee and some eggs. Many of those restaurants offer beer, you see.
There’s a bill on our governor’s desk to straighten the problem out, and I hope she signs it.
Quite a few other states already permit concealed carry in establishments that sell alcohol for consumption. Haven’t heard about any drunken shootouts yet.
“People are fearful about tomorrow. They feel insecure. And the Second Amendment right is something that they cherish and it’s a means of protecting themselves and their family and defending what they have. It provides security in troubled times.”
I’m fearful of tomorrow too, but I’m pretty certain a sidearm isn’t going to change my outlook.
#2 – I’m in complete agreement. I have my CCH in NC, and I find it ridiculous that I can’t carry if I go to my local pizza dive just to grab a slice.
Remember: the restaurant owners are still permitted to make the final decision by posting a conspicuous sign at their entrances, announcing the prohibition of weapons within the establishment. This is consistent with property owners’ rights, which is something I also agree with. I disagree with their decision to not allow firearms, but I agree it is their right.
#1 and 2, You both have it exactly right. There are two reasons why allowing concealed carry in bars will work out ok.
First reason:
“Permit holders are a remarkably law-abiding subclass of the population. Florida, which has issued over 1,408,907 permits in twenty one years, has revoked only 166 for a “crime after licensure involving a firearm,” and fewer than 4,500 permits for any reason.”
http://tinyurl.com/mq4z38
Do the math, then compare to the general population.
Second reason:
This one is simple. It takes time and effort to become a Concealed Carry Permit holder, and the “wingnut Gun Lover” isn’t going to throw that away. Hence, he will stay sober and probably be the guy who always turns out to be the designated driver.
In fact, the true “wingnut” is the guy who thinks that CCP holders are wild-eyed gun toting drunks shooting their guns in the air like TV western cowboys.
#6:
“Remember: the restaurant owners are still permitted to make the final decision by posting a conspicuous sign at their entrances, announcing the prohibition of weapons within the establishment.”
They can post all they want. If I carry concealed in the place, I’m not breaking any laws.
If they catch me, they can kick me out and tell me to never come back. But that’s about it.
I’m thrilled — this is 100% guaranteed to result in rednecks shooting at each other. Thus fewer Republicans in Tennessee. Thank you Senator Doug Jackson!
#8, If they catch me, they can kick me out and tell me to never come back. But that’s about it.
In some states, you might be breaking the law if someone sees that “concealed” weapon. Texas outlaws open carry.
If it isn’t concealed, it’s considered open carry.
There is a move to permit open carry but I am not sure how successful it will be.
#10:
I never get these states where open carry is considered ‘worse’ than concealed carry.
PA native living in AZ, both open carry states. I’m spoiled.
Having worked in bars, I know exactly how stupid people can get, and how quickly fights break out. I would not want guns mixed in with those fools.
This change in the law allows carry by someone that has A. Cleared all the criminal background checks. B. Have taken a class and passed a test.
But all that aside. TN law allows the owner of any building to post a No Handguns sign and then those with handguns aren’t allowed in.
What is going on here is one particular restaurant owner doesn’t want the guns but doesn’t want to loose business to competitors that do allow carry in their building.
#11 Open carry is worse than CC. You loose the “vaccination effect” you get when bad guys don’t know who is carrying and where.
trying to be “objective” we have facts/statistics that there is a positive correlation between prevelance of guns and murder by guns YET I’ve often seen the stat referenced that concealed gun permit states have lower crime.
I wonder what “finesse” is applied to the CCP to make them sound sensible? I can imagine 3-4 cautions making the stats meaningless, but just wondering what “the truth” is? Ooops, just remembered thinking it makes sense that people that get themselves permitted “should be” a more rational subset of gun carriers in general? Course now, if they are rational, why are they in bars?
Just one more (of the hundreds of) reason to stay out of the South.
>I’m thrilled — this is 100% guaranteed to result in rednecks shooting at each other. Thus fewer Republicans in Tennessee.
Actually, it could yield in criminals focusing on those places frequented by liberals that have banned guns from their property. So more mass shootings of Democrats, while the killers of Republicans get foiled by gun owners!
16, MikeN
You do realize that your society sucks, right?
Hmm, if a criminal wants to commit a violent crime is he going to go to a gun free zone or a “gun rich zone”?
18, Paddy-0 (Give me a ZERO!)
Depends. If the “gun rich zone” (what a phrase…) has what he needs, he’ll just bring more guns and friends. Obviously. ROFLMFAO!
I’ve never had a gun in my entire life, never even held one.
Also, I’ve never had any friends growing up and up to today who have a gun. Zero, zilch.
We never talk about guns, except to shake our heads when we read stories like this.
SO, what prevents some yutz from going out to his car and getting a gun?
That sign (or State law) won’t….
And, unless the owner has a couple of nose guards from the Steelers manning metal detectors at the door, what protects me from the guy who goes out to his car and gets a gun?
(Carrying a gun into a bar in OH is a FELONY. That includes restaurants that serve alcohol…. At least a couple people have died since the CHL law went into effect in 2004 because LAW ABIDING CHL holders left their guns in their cars while visiting such establishments….)
Just stupid people trying to help their Criminal and Terrorist friends fine nice places to cause trouble for the rest of us….
And, no, I’m not a wingnut, although I am an NRA Life Member.
#18, Cow-Patty,
Hmm, if a criminal wants to commit a violent crime is he going to go to a gun free zone or a “gun rich zone”?
He is going to go where the crime he is intent on committing is. Criminals don’t go somewhere to be caught or even identified.
#21
Some of us in Ohio are trying to change the law here so we can carry into places that serve alcohol. Might no be as far Tennessee but more like Kentucky’s. That’s were I can go into a Friday’s and eat. But I can’t go to the bar section of the establishment. Some here even want to change the drinking part. I can’t have a sip but a cop can got to I believe .08 DUI level before he’s in trouble. Don’t get me wrong guns and alcohol don’t mix but I should be able to toast someone.
If I am in a place where the owner bans handguns and a crime happens there, I will sue the owner for letting the crime happen. Is a criminal going to hold up a restaurant if they think that some of the people they are robbing are armed? How many thieves rob donut shops?
Funny, most people intent on “randomly” gunning down more than one person overwhelmingly head to “gun free zones”. I guess it is just coincidence…
Two gun advocates in a bar argue over the 2nd Amendment…
“Drop it!”
“NO. YOU drop it”
“NoooO. YOU drop it”
“NOo. YOU drop it”
“NO. YOU drop it”
“DROP IT!!!”
“YOU DROP IT”
“IDJIT!!!”
“YOU’RE THE IDJIT!!!”
“NooooOOO, YOU’RE THE IDJIT!”
“FUKIN IDJIT!”
“FUKIN RETARD”
(click!)
(….???…..)
(click! …???)
(click)
(click. click.)
(click. click.)
(click)
(click)
(click. click.)
(click)
(click)
(click. click.)
(click. click.)
(click)
Lordy… gun totin’ drunks. Someone’s gonna die, no doubt about it… we can only hope it’s one of the shooters and not an innocent bystander.
I’m movin’ to Tennessee with my HD cellphone camera. Bar fights ought to be more … excitin’.
And I’ll be the talk of YouTube!
Two gun advocates in a bar that makes you check in your gun at the door, argue over the 2nd Amendment…
“IDJIT!!!”
“YOU’RE THE IDJIT!!!”
“NooooOOO, YOU’RE THE IDJIT!”
“FUKIN IDJIT!”
“FUKIN RETARD”
(Bartender) “Hey! Take it outside boys!”
Moments later, just outside…
“Drop it!”
“NO. YOU drop it”
“NoooO. YOU drop it”
“NOo. YOU drop it”
“NO. YOU drop it”
“DROP IT!!!”
“YOU DROP IT”
“IDJIT!!!”
“YOU’RE THE IDJIT!!!”
“NooooOOO, YOU’RE THE IDJIT!”
“FUKIN IDJIT!”
“FUKIN RETARD”
(click!)
(….???…..)
(click! …???)
(click.)
(click. click.)
(click.) …
Hmm. I’m a long time gun owner, but I’m not sure I’m cool with this. On paper it’s fine, IF all of the folks carrying in fact did NOT drink while in the bars (they’re not SUPPOSED TO). Yu wouldn’t have ‘drunken gun fights’ because they’re not drinking. Of course, the counter argument is that if someone is up to no good or is going to ignore the rules, they’re going to just go in with a concealed gun NOW and unless your local bar has a metal detector, you wouldn’t know.
In Virgina, when I used to go shooting at the NRA HQ range (with a gay gun club which was cool) you could open carry into the local restaurant/bars near by in Fairfax, you just couldn’t have any alcohol at your TABLE (not just you). That seemed to work fine. In the years I lived in DC, I don’t ever remember a ‘drunken gun fight’ ever happening in a restaurant.