The Associated Press: Sarkozy says burqas are ‘not welcome’ in France — This should be fun to watch. This garb seems more of a political statement than a religious one.
President Nicolas Sarkozy declared Monday that the Islamic burqa is not welcome in France, branding the face-covering, body-length gown as a symbol of subservience that suppresses women’s identities and turns them into “prisoners behind a screen.”
In a high-profile speech to lawmakers in the historic chateau at Versailles, Sarkozy said the head-to-toe Muslim body coverings were in disaccord with French values — some of the strongest language against burqas from a European leader at a time when some Western officials have been seeking to ease tensions with the Muslim world…
“The burqa is not a religious sign, it’s a sign of subservience, a sign of debasement — I want to say it solemnly,” he said. “It will not be welcome on the territory of the French Republic.”
#29, Bobbo,
Don’t Sisters and Brothers often go out in public in street clothes?
Why yes, some do. It has more to do with the Order than with the nun’s choice. Many Orders today, especially those in the public eye, have abandoned the habit, but not all. And unfortunately, I don’t have any numbers on how many do still wear them. Even still, a lot will wear the head dress and more contemporary dresses.
I think a better course would be to deport these types if from outside France.
#30–Bob3000==what is it about 130 degrees in the shade with no shade makes you think anyone, including a brain washed Saudi Woman would choose to wear black from head to toe?
I guess you are of the lawyering type that thinks slaves in the cotton fields enjoyed what they were doing because the sang and no one ever broke the chains to run away.
Yes, women in halter tops just the same as women in burquas.
Speaking of not seeing the forest for the trees when there aren’t even any trees, Sea Lawyer==you continue to make the same mistake as Bob3000. You see 1-2 similarities and don’t have the attention span to look at the differences==much less to compare the similarities with the differences and make a considered judgment in view of ALL the facts. You’ll never make a Sea Judge. Probably your goal?
What is it about women wearing anything makes you think they chose it? Don’t you have to ask them rather than just blithely assume? No?
Extra points–ask a slave if they are happy and then ask them again.
Heh, heh. If you can’t wear a halter top, how can you “choose” to wear a burgua? Huh? I guess like I chose not to play the piano or be a rocket scientist.
#35, They are in France. Who is forcing them to wear the thing?
#36–SL==Think about it and post back if you continue to draw a blank.
Hint—who forces them not to spit?
I don’t know, who forces them to not spit?
Credit to Liberal Sarkozy for shaming the religious fanatical Muslim to suppress women.
Intelligent people get it that this is not to make beekeeper masks illegal, but rather shaming the religious, fanatical practice.
The world is full of oppressive acts.
– Female genital mutilation in africa
– Woman’s feet bound in a pointy shape
.. to name a few.
Happy to see leaders take a stand and call out this ridiculous practice to shame the people who propagate this evil.
Don’t count on conservatives to act. The very name “conservative”, implies they are trapped in the past.
declines the invitation to be so bluntly revelatory as to the question at #38. At #36–part of the answer is the same people who throw acid in the faces of girls trying to get an education. I guess after the acid bath, they freely choose to stay home?
As some of you may know, I like Muslims and usually defend them.
However, I am not too sympathetic to the pro-burkha and hijab movement.
I will defend any woman who _voluntarily_ choses to wear it.
But the MAIN POINT of the burkha/hijab is to separate women from the public.
So, how can they complain, “Oh, you are excluding me because of my burkha!”
Still, I think as a society we can be tolerant of the burkha/hijab but there are reasonable limits.
BTW, this isn’t just for the burkha. There are other kinds of religious garb that prevent full-participation in society. The totally nude holy men in India come to mind.
BTW, you can’t parse-out the “political statement” vs. the “religious” motivation for wearing the burkha.
Conservative Islam is political. It’s also religious.
This is true for most conservative wings of religion, right? And the supremacist wing of atheism, for that matter.
Alfred1,
When the French ban school girls wearing a crosses, are you cool with that, too?
It’s the same thing, for the French.
http://tinyurl.com/6hx67
# 42 Greg Allen said, “BTW, you can’t parse-out the “political statement” vs. the “religious” motivation for wearing the burkha.”
Do you know if the koran mentions this garb?
Wrong way to go for France. Those Muslim women aren’t forced to wear the burqas. It’s their own foolish choice based on their own culture.
If France really wants to change the “habits” (cough) of Muslim women, they are free to step up their concerns about self subservience by educating on the negative social aspects.
How about a public campaign poster showing a Woman in full burqa with the caption “Don’t be a fool”. Just trowing that out there…. legal? Kind of like saying “This is your brain on drugs”
Nice to see at least one major country stand up for it’s culture in the light of day.
(so i guess this means no Muslim super stadium for France like the Brits bent over and built?)
Ours has been so watered down that it has lost it’s backbone. even our own president takes pot shots at us while abroad and thinks he needs to perfect the Constitution. (what’s left of it)
I guess all that’s left to say in this case is, Viva La France!
-s
#35, Bobbo,
I chose not to play the piano or be a rocket scientist.
HEY !!! ME TOO !!!
Obligatory:
http://tinyurl.com/24uxfm
Good!
Too bad we’re more tolerant of dress. I’d like to see thong underwear (showing), half mast baggy pants, and stomach revealing ANYTHING banned in this country.
Oh, and spandex!
#42
You know, you can be Muslim without wearing the body wrap…just as a Catholic schoolgirl can be Catholic without the jumper.
I don’t think women should be forced to wear these costumes either, but it is ridiculous for the state to outlaw any outfit. Which type of clothes will be next to be looked down upon.
As horrible as it is that some Arabic tradition forces women to wear these costumes. The consequence of banning them is even worse. Now these women will be confined to their house unable to go out in public ever again.
Which option is better?
I guess Americans don’t believe in freedom of religion any more, huh? Typical pointy headed hypocrisy to whinge and whine about the erosion of rights and Big Government ruining their lives, then support the banning of clothing. Nice work.
#52, Hugh, guess you haven’t noticed which posters were most vocal in their support. It was mostly the government knows best crowd.
#27 – Mr. Fusion – Then we can have the nuns lose their medieval habits too. They too do not display contemporary Western Culture. And Priests in dresses with their pointy hats.
Well said.
#53 Sea Lawyer
Yes you’re right. There are a few of those as well. Seems that freedom and democracy have take a bit of a hit in this thread.
#52, Hugh,
This is not about religion. It is about the subjugation and humiliation of women for the sake of power to the men.
This, to me, sounds more like disapproval of anyone advocating inequality in women. Of course, there are still those who think it was a mistake to give the vote to women.
Who are we Westerners to criticize any other culture. This women certainly are not bothering anyone. If their society is based on this clothing, there is nothing westerners should have to say about it. They have been here longer than us.
#54 Priests should wear whatever they like. So should you. We all should be able to wear whatever we want. The world is a richly diverse, wonderful place, with plenty of different opinions and ways of doing things. It is truly the variations that make the world so delightful. And if these women need a helping hand, they have loving husbands and fathers to guide them.
#56 Fusion
Many Moslem women don’t see it that way. Many have the choise of wearing it or not.
I also cant believe that Sarkozy, a known womaniser, believe all this guff about it being a women rights issue. This is populist Moslem bashing, pure and simple. He’s sure to get a good nationalist reaction.
I don’t agree with the Muslim world view of things but I do believe in the right to worship whatever, whenever, as long as you do no harm.
It is in the Koran. Besides they kill their women if they don’t wear them.
I have to agree with Sarkozy there. Even though I am a Muslim but i dont think Burqas are necessary anymore considering you can get along easily now a days. Of course u need Burqas in a muslim countries like Saudi Arabia but when youre living in France, or any other western country, then you dont need it. I always say, when living in rome, do as the romans do.
#59, Hugh,
Many have the choise of wearing it or not.
Those Muslims who do not wear one do so because of that choice.
The whole rational behind the burka and hajib is not to protect the woman, but so a man will not be tempted by a woman’s beauty. Those that do wear one do so because of the pressure from the men in her life – fathers, husbands, and local temple traditions.
Sarkozy’s history does not mean he can not also have a valid opinion on this subject. I do agree with that many of the posts above are purely intent upon bashing Muslims for the sake of bashing Muslims. Here though, Sarkosy explained himself and his rational quite well.