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Daylife/Reuters Pictures used by permission
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| Obama addresses a meeting of millionaires |
Americans overwhelmingly support substantial changes to the health care system and are strongly behind one of the most contentious proposals Congress is considering, a government-run insurance plan to compete with private insurers, according to the latest New York Times/CBS News poll.
The poll found that most Americans would be willing to pay higher taxes so everyone could have health insurance and that they said the government could do a better job of holding down health-care costs than the private sector.
Across a number of questions, the poll detected substantial support for a greater government role in health care, a position generally identified with the Democratic Party. When asked which party was more likely to improve health care, only 18 percent of respondents said the Republicans, compared with 57 percent who picked the Democrats. Even one of four Republicans said the Democrats would do better…
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Daylife/Getty Images used by permission
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| Congressional Republicans say “NO” |
Republicans in Congress have fiercely criticized the proposal as an unneeded expansion of government that might evolve into a system of nationalized health coverage and lead to the rationing of care.
But in the poll, the proposal received broad bipartisan backing, with half of those who call themselves Republicans saying they would support a public plan, along with nearly three-fourths of independents and almost nine in 10 Democrats…
They clearly indicate growing confidence in the government’s ability to manage health care. Half of those questioned said they thought government would be better at providing medical coverage than private insurers, up from 30 percent in polls conducted in 2007. Nearly 60 percent said Washington would have more success in holding down costs, up from 47 percent.
Why should anyone have confidence in insurance companies? Is there anyone left who hasn’t been screwed by their automobile insurance, homeowners coverage, medical insurance company? We all know these slimeballs would steal their mother’s purse if they could skive another 5% from a settlement.
#196 – LibertyLover,
#191, You’re still missing the point. It’s the CEO of United Healthcare earning $130,000,000/yr who is robbing you blind.
The man is getting paid quite well for making the stockholders happy.
Yes. By not providing health care.
Would you rather give $30,000/yr to him for insurance that won’t cover most conditions or $20,000/yr to the government to get better coverage and as a side effect cover the 67,000,000 uninsured and underinsured?
Him. If you don’t understand that, you are not American.
And don’t get me started on the 20k. The government can’t tie their shoelaces for that.
Simple math. The next highest paying country pays 1/3 less of their GDP for health coverage and does cover all of their citizens.
Is Germany so much better than the U.S. in your mind?
If not, why is it that they cover everyone for 1/3 less than we pay to NOT cover everyone?
And, why do they get better results?
The answer is simple. The CEO of United Healthcare (and all employees of all health insurance companies in the U.S.) are tasked with NOT providing coverage. It’s their job. They do it well. Why would we want to pay for a company that does not want to cover us for anything?
#197, So what you are saying is the German Government is better than America’s and the corporations combined?
#196, LL, “You claim selfishness is not helping others. What’s to say they money you take away from someone can’t be put to good use elsewhere.”
And that is what we refer to as the Broken Window Fallacy.
Maybe you’re right.
I just can’t seem to get it across that taking someone’s money for their own uses reduces the spending power of everyone.
#198 – LibertyLover,
#197, So what you are saying is the German Government is better than America’s and the corporations combined?
No. I’m saying that the German government is doing a better job providing health care than our insurance companies are.
We haven’t given our government a chance to see how they will do. We The Idiots ™ seem to prefer staying with a known broken system to trying something that may fix it.
#201, And this takes me back to my original question, if it is that important to you, why aren’t you over there?
#202 – LibertyLoser,
A) Immigration into the EU is not that simple.
B) I’d like to see things get fixed here.
C) I have actually considered Canada. There are practical implications in leaving one’s country.
D) Why am I explaining my life and motives to a loser who can’t tell when his money is being stolen?
#203,
A) Immigration into the EU is not that simple.
Actually, in 2005 Germany made it easier if you have a good education.
Assuming you do, it would be pretty simple now.
B) I’d like to see things get fixed here.
I would, too. Unfortunately, the cure most people have in mind is worse than the disease.
D) Why am I explaining my life and motives to a loser who can’t tell when his money is being stolen?
Mine’s not being stolen. I only pay about $100/mth through my company.
Be that as it may, I am really curious. I keep hearing everybody complain about how bad it is here and how good it is over there and I just for the life of me can’t figure out why more people aren’t moving there. What is the reason so many people come to the US vs Germany. If it’s so bad, why do they still come?
#204 – LibertyLover,
Mine’s not being stolen. I only pay about $100/mth through my company.
A decent family plan costs about $30,000/yr. If you have a family plan, your company is paying the other $28,800. If that is the case, it is another $28,800 they could be paying you in salary.
So, whether you ever get to see the money first or not, you are indeed being robbed.
#205, We are not paying $30,000/yr. I should know because I own the company. It is ~$100/mth/person. The company picks up the other half.
That is some kind of propaganda to scare people.
#206 – LL,
Maybe insurance is cheaper where you live. I couldn’t find a decent family plan for under $30K/yr when I searched for myself without a company in the picture. I pay more than you do now with my company paying the lion’s share.
It’s a NY Times Poll, of course it supports the Bamster.
a more reliable Rasmussen poll has Americans divided evenly: “44% of Americans say the Obama administration should wait on health care reform until the economy improves. 43% say health care reform should move ahead now, according to a new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey of 10,000 adults nationwide. Twelve percent (12%) are not sure which course is best.
Some of my points
A) No matter what your opinion it is INSANE to design the plan when there is a power vacuum in all three houses of government. especially when you have corrupt folks from the 90’s who helped create the current financial crisis playing a role in writing it. Debating something this important over summer recess guarantees underhanded tactics will ensue.
I’ll bet a Dollar that when the final draft is printed up for the senate to read, a NEW crisis will emerge which of course, will require that everybody vote “Yes” without reading it.. in keeping with the “Never let a crisis go to waste theme”
b) the entitlement crowd will abuse the crap out any system we come with. they already abuse the crap out of the current medicaid system. you MUST have this addressed. -same goes for the majority
of vendors that file medicaid claims
c) the rest of the planet is rapidly moving out of any and all holdings they have in USD’s. -Unlike us mind numb Americans, everyone else knows our dollar is about to collapse.
No matter how much obama says the plan is funded, it wont make a hill of beans difference when 70% of our medical supplies/materials are imported and imports cost jump 1000% or more from a worthless dollar.
d) when has any president or congress in recent history kept their word on the cost of a plan or how it is to be payed for?
e) as always, if we could stop the rampant corruption racing through the all levels of federal government we would have plenty of surplus to fund this and a whole lot more..
f) we are bankrupt as a country “right now” the only good argument FOR universal care is that by next year 50% will be unemployed because of this year’s “October surprise” -so yeah, we’ll need it now because half the country will be without health care (or dead from phase two of the swine flu scam)
rasmussen poll
-s
#207, I’m in Texas. Where are you at?
30k/yr. That’s a lot. The cheapest we could find was 8k/yr if we went straight to the insurance company. And I’m a tobacco user.
With prices that high, you are either extremely well educated and can charge a lot for your services or your company has a large billable staff behinds the scenes paying your salary.
In either case, you are obviously in high demand. It must feel good to know that.
#196, Liberty Loser,
So the DoD is not well run?
Nope. $600 hammers?
I guess you have never sold anything to the military. A few years ago I got into a contract to equip some refurbished Army trucks with new seat belts. My boss disparately tried to stop the deal. Marketing over rode him and the sale was on. Seat belts that would have sold for $40 became $150+ items. Simply because we had to do all the testing to their standards with full verification of each step. I spent hours compiling paperwork, test data, third party data, country of origin, etc to satisfy their requirements.
If the contract was on-going the per unit costs would have lessened, but the result would still be we had to prove that our product would work. No, this is not a bad policy. An pilot doesn’t want to discover at 45,000 feet that something doesn’t work, the soldier doesn’t want to find out while under enemy fire that something doesn’t work when it is needed the most, and the Navy just doesn’t want to ever find out it doesn’t work.
So while a $600 hammer sounds silly, it works and will do the job. Second, you don’t know what the requirements of that hammer were or the specifications it was made to.
#196, Liberty Loser,
And every other nation in the Western World has or had a King. Why can’t you think for yourself and stop wanting to be like everybody else. If everybody was jumping off a bridge, would you?
In case you didn’t stay awake in history class, at one time so did America. Most European countries have gotten rid of their monarchies are diminished them to ceremonial roles only. There is not one monarch in Europe today with any real power.
Another weak, desperate argument.
“So what have you been screwed out of because of bad government”?
50% of my hard earned money.
And now you are trying to suggest the government took 50% of your money? Riiiiight !!! [/sarcam]
Typical, you right wing nuts can’t tell us what onerous taxes Obama has imposed upon you (note, the tobacco tax was just signed Friday and doesn’t take effect for some time yet) and then you claim ridiculous amounts like that.
You see this is the type of argument that gives you away as a poser. All rhetoric and no substance. Straight out of the Liebertarian handbook.
#210, Fusion,
Yep, that is definitely a major source of the reason why procurement contracts in DoD looked ridiculous from the outside. Instead of just buying a hammer off the shelf, they would contract the creation of a special milspec hammer. There were some pretty extensive overhauls to the contracting and procurement policies for DoD in the 90’s, and I’m pretty sure Al Gore was quite involved in pushing the issue. Much credit to him for that.
#209 – LibertyLover,
#207, I’m in Texas. Where are you at?
New York. Such a difference in costs also lobbies for a national plan.
#213, New York. Such a difference in costs also lobbies for a national plan.
Or perhaps you should consider moving. People move all the time for economic reasons. I used to live in another state and moved to Texas because the COL was lower.
#212, SL,
Instead of just buying a hammer off the shelf, they would contract the creation of a special milspec hammer.
A hammer is not just a hammer. Unless you know the requirements of the hammer there is no legitimate criticism. For example, and I’m pulling this out my ass, the hammer might have been non-conducting, be a certain weight, have a hitting face with specific characteristics, an energy limiter on the handle, etc. In short, we don’t know even what this hammer was to be used for.
As for the DoD’s requirements, I notice you totally lost the argument when you instituted Gore’s name to blame.
#214 – LL,
The cost of living may be lower, but likely so is the income level. If my percentage disposable income remains the same, it leaves me with a higher number of dollars, which makes travel easier.
Of course, nothing is easy right now …
#217, What do you do for a living?
#218, Are you trying to track me down? I’m a geek.
#219, I have nothing but geeks working for me (I’m the Head Geek In Charge). I’m always looking for talent and I don’t really care what their politics are as long as the can do their job.
#126, Fusion, who was blaming Gore? I was giving him credit for pushing the regulatory reforms that happened. I still remember him going on Letterman when he was running for VP in 1992 and demonstrating the $100 (I’ve made that number up obviously) ashtrays that the government was required to buy. Things are MUCH better than they used to be.
Above was directed at #216.
#216, and yes, of course, if you really need a specially made hammer, then that is what you need. But if you are just hammering nails for a construction project, then any old hammer will likely do. The problem was that everything that was procured had to be specced, which greatly increased the costs, as you very accurately detailed. But that mandatory requirement is no longer in place these days.
#220 – LL,
I’ll keep that in mind. Thanks.
225th!
# 180 Mr. Fusion said, in part:
“I hope Aunty is feeling better. My best to her.”
Much better; thank you kindly.
#223, SL,
As I understand, there are three levels of specs. The first are consumer items which must be the same as what is sold to consumers. Things such as bar soap and food. These are generally “off the shelf” items for general use.
The next level are items for government use and must meet higher, stricter requirements. Uniforms, writing pens and paper, desks, furniture, etc.
The third are mission critical use. Everything used in an airplane is mission critical. I remember Senator Proxmire (sp) years ago railed about the $600 ashtray without mentioning how it had to meet this requirement. As I recall these ashtrays were for use in very long range patrol aircraft and the number required was very few.
All civilian aircraft are under similar requirements, only they get more a little more leeway as they can transfer the item over many planes.
# 191 Misanthropic Scott said, “You’re still missing the point. It’s the CEO of United Healthcare earning $130,000,000/yr who is robbing you blind.”
Nope, not if I’m not buying. My choice, not yours. YOU are missing the point about freedom and why this country was founded in the 1st place…