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Daylife/Reuters Pictures used by permission
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| Obama addresses a meeting of millionaires |
Americans overwhelmingly support substantial changes to the health care system and are strongly behind one of the most contentious proposals Congress is considering, a government-run insurance plan to compete with private insurers, according to the latest New York Times/CBS News poll.
The poll found that most Americans would be willing to pay higher taxes so everyone could have health insurance and that they said the government could do a better job of holding down health-care costs than the private sector.
Across a number of questions, the poll detected substantial support for a greater government role in health care, a position generally identified with the Democratic Party. When asked which party was more likely to improve health care, only 18 percent of respondents said the Republicans, compared with 57 percent who picked the Democrats. Even one of four Republicans said the Democrats would do better…
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Daylife/Getty Images used by permission
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| Congressional Republicans say “NO” |
Republicans in Congress have fiercely criticized the proposal as an unneeded expansion of government that might evolve into a system of nationalized health coverage and lead to the rationing of care.
But in the poll, the proposal received broad bipartisan backing, with half of those who call themselves Republicans saying they would support a public plan, along with nearly three-fourths of independents and almost nine in 10 Democrats…
They clearly indicate growing confidence in the government’s ability to manage health care. Half of those questioned said they thought government would be better at providing medical coverage than private insurers, up from 30 percent in polls conducted in 2007. Nearly 60 percent said Washington would have more success in holding down costs, up from 47 percent.
Why should anyone have confidence in insurance companies? Is there anyone left who hasn’t been screwed by their automobile insurance, homeowners coverage, medical insurance company? We all know these slimeballs would steal their mother’s purse if they could skive another 5% from a settlement.
“A monolithic government agency in charge of billions of dollars and how they are doled out to the public sounds ripe for abuse.”
Depends on how you let YOUR government run it.
And, since we know that multi-billion dollar corporations have failed in their duties, its time to remove their privilege.
#141 – Patrick,
You read my post? Really??!!? And, that’s your conclusion?
Wow!! You really are incapable of thought. You are also incapable of processing what you read.
After reading your posts for some time, I should not be surprised by this.
#121 – LibertyLoser,
#119, Don’t give me any that bleeding heart crap. Quit thinking with your emotions. Emotions don’t pay the bills.
People get care now.
You really believe that, don’t you?
Amazing.
Do you know what it means to get emergency room only treatment? Do you know what it means to be without preventative medicine? Do you know what it means to never enter a regular doctor’s office?
I don’t think so. I don’t think you’re capable of understanding this simple fact.
I don’t think you’re capable of noticing the effect on the nation as a whole as we pay over 16% of GDP on health care and still end up with the worst care in the developed democratic world.
#122, 105 – LibertyLoser,
You’ve obviously put a lot of thought into that. However, you have missed two points. One, I for one, prefer Obama’s plan to anything I’ve heard from the repugs. However, it is by far, not the best plan I’ve heard.
Point two, you still leave corporations in charge of health insurance. The problem with this is that they are legally bound solely to maximize shareholder profit above all else.
What does this mean for actual humans, even those lucky enough to have insurance?
It means that such corporations are legally required to deny health coverage at every possible opportunity.
If you have any kind of a medical condition, you know that this is exactly what they do. Deny. Deny. Deny.
It’s their job. And, they’re very good at it.
#127 – LibertyLoser,
Definition of Bleeding Heart:
“A person who is considered excessively sympathetic toward those who claim to be underprivileged or exploited.”
Definition of a heartless bastard:
One who does not give a shit about those who are less fortunate than him/herself, i.e. you.
#133 – qb,
Nope. It’s a little known fact that in the neocon bible, Jesus always checked for citizenship and health insurance before healing the sick.
#139 – Patrick,
I see people are still arguing that the gov’t should steal even more from citizens wallets and give to them. What low life thieves.
You’re getting robbed now … big time. You’re just too stupid to notice. We pay more now than any developed democratic nation in the world, 50% more as a percentage of GDP than the next highest country.
And, we get less.
Why are you so happy to pay the CEO of United Healthcare a $130,000,000/yr salary for denying coverage?
Perhaps if we had a better system, they’d cover that brain replacement surgery you so desperately need.
#144 – Chuck,
Good idea.
While we’re at it, let’s tie their salaries to some multiple of the median household income. That would effectively put them on commission.
We do need to take action like that to put government interest in line with those of people instead of corporations.
Unfortunately, we can’t afford to buy the number of politicians that corporations can, so we’re stuck with our corporatocracy.
#145 – web,
# 65 RTaylor said, “The only way this will work is rationed care. No you’re not entitled to a new liver, that $50K in chemo will not be allowed because it’s only 20% successful. Americans will have to accept the fact they aren’t entitled to every option.”
But they are entitled to government provided health-care? Who makes these decisions some benevolent Washington bureaucrat?
I believe such decisions should be made by a panel of citizen’s groups, health care workers, government workers, and others. I think this is how it is typically done in other countries.
Today, in the U.S. such decisions are made based on wealth of the individual.
Is that more fair? I think not.
No system covers everyone for everything. No system is perfect. The one we have today is about as far from perfect as it is possible to get.
#149 – LibertyLoser,
#129, But all people DO NOT get care now.
But they have that option if they can get to an emergency room.
Do you get all of your care in emergency rooms? Why not?
#134, Hugh Ripper, you crazy devil. If you keep talking like that then the military has to start making money. Maybe police departments should be making money as well.
Actually, they do have a budget and if they run a deficit, they lay people off. The federal government just sells bonds to the Fed who prints the money out of thin air (which is what will happen when any federal HC system starts running a deficit).
I guess you’ve never heard of municipal bonds.
If you are going to makeup numbers. Just use 99.99%.
That way maybe the 200,000,000+ who don’t want it, can feel that they are just in the 0.01% of the people.
My math is as good as the B.O.
We need to open Long Term Care places in Mexico so “IF” we send someone back to Mexico, we can still give them the best care the USA can offer.
One last part of the new health plan not talked about.
If you make under $50,000 You will get a rebate check for your time and expenses after you get your free health care visit.
#154 – LibertyLoser,
#152, That was Named in #148.
Mr. Fusion by any other name . . . Either you are the same person or you are reading out of the same book because your comments are near identical to other posts under that name.
Nice to know you can admit your mistakes and apologize for them. What a great example of personal responsibility you set.
So why haven’t you moved there yet? Do you really hate this country so much you want to change it?
Are you f___ing kidding me??!!? America Love It Or Leave It??!!? Everything the country does is right by definition? Nothing can ever be improved?
You know … I bet there were people who said the same thing around a thousand years ago.
Cough, bullshit.
178 qb,
It seems that facts are the second most hated thing in the US… After Mexicans/Blacks/Arabs.
#165, Uncle Pat,
I blame the business world’s adoration of Harvard MBAs. The bean-counters have taken over.
Oh so very true. I never thought an accountant would hold the power of who lives and dies, but, …
I hope Aunty is feeling better. My best to her.
RE 181,
Second paragraph, first sentence should have read:
The truth is we know about the cost IN society.
My apologies.
181 Mr. Fusion
“The truth is very few people realize how big a tax is already being paid by private corporations. That is one of the costs that has injured the auto makers (and all our manufacturing) so much.”
Well known that Toyota enjoyed opening up a plant in Canada since health costs are assumed by the nation / province and not the corp.
#155, Why shouldn’t they? Because you don’t want to contribute to America?
I do contribute to America. I own a company that feeds 30 mouths. How many do you feed?
It is the selfishness of people like you
If your wife were dying of cancer and you had the money to save her but that money could be used to save the lives of 10 other people, would you let your wife die to save those other 10?
If you can truthfully say yes, then I will accept your definition of “selfish.” Until then, you know not of what you speak.
Named said, on June 22nd, 2009 at 8:09 pm
149,So, you’re saying that there is absolutely no validation done. You just send in a paper and you get your money? In fact, there isn’t even an administration set up to handle said mail ins?
How does the federal government verify income and deductions now? That’s a trick question. You have to have an income in order to file a tax return.
So, the insurance company says individual claims are now 1 million dollars. But the government will pay you back. And the government would claim that “hey! That’s the market rate and we’re willing to pay it.”
Think logically for a moment. That’s what the insurance is for. You get any money you spent on your premiums returned to you. Perhaps I wasn’t clear.
Why? When on vacation, you get travel insurance. When living in your state, you get insurance built by the state regulation. What is the purpose of the state if their laws matter only in terms of corporate sign-up? Address DO matter. Unless you believe in the abolition of all state power and vest it totally within the federation.
States recognize each other’s driver’s licenses. It’s called cooperation, not protectionism.
If you told me to fuck myself, why would I care? You’re just another bag of meat taking up space. It’s not like you’re important to me.
Ah, so my opinion doesn’t matter. Only yours. Nice rebuttal.
“BTW . . . how did your Kool Aid session go? Are you buddies up on the cell phone tax laws yet?” No idea what you’re talking about. so… Go fuck yourself.
Sure you do. You are really Mr. Fusion.
#158, That is the foundation of a democracy.
Sadly, that is what this country has become. It is supposed to be a republic.
#160, Liberty [Loser] thinks that taxes are all evil.
Nope, just federal taxes that allow the federal government to usurp more power than they are allowed.
but he wants us to believe he owns a successful small business with 40%+ profit.
Nope, I’m happy with 25%.
#162, If I answer you, does this confirm that we are different people, in opposition to the beliefs of “Liberty” Lover?
Nope, it just proves you will go to any length to convince people your two names are two different people. I don’t believe it.
#169, How many homeless people have you put on your couch this week? How many empty tanks of gas have you filled up? How much time did you donate to social causes last year?
You and Fusion/Named seem to think the definition of sympathy is forcing someone else to do your charity work for you.
#170, Nope. It’s a little known fact that in the neocon bible, Jesus always checked for citizenship and health insurance before healing the sick.
Nice twist.
Actually, he didn’t ask other people to do it for him. He did it himself.
#174, I guess you’ve never heard of municipal bonds.
Yes, and they have to be approved by the citizens before they are sold. The Fed prints them willy-nilly.
#176, So why haven’t you moved there yet? Do you really hate this country so much you want to change it?
Are you f___ing kidding me??!!? America Love It Or Leave It??!!? Everything the country does is right by definition? Nothing can ever be improved?
Sure, it could be improved, but your method of improvement is not right. These other countries are already doing what you want. Wouldn’t it be easier to just move there?
184, LL,
I think you’re missing the point here…
“Think logically for a moment. That’s what the insurance is for. You get any money you spent on your premiums returned to you. Perhaps I wasn’t clear.”
You claimed that individuals should get the same benefit that employers get with regards to tax write offs for health insurance. But, as I explained earlier, insurance companies prefer to deal with a business because the pool is larger and the likelyhood of 100% claim rate is nil. A family of four would defintely claim 100%. So, you give a tax break or credit. Wonderful. The premium is 35000 dollars for the year. should you just take out a loan for the premium and then hope you get it back with your income filing? You haven’t really thought this through.
“States recognize each other’s driver’s licenses. It’s called cooperation, not protectionism.”
Ah, so the drivers license infrastructure is exactly the same as insurance registration, claims and hosptial treatment? Oh, no it’s not. But, I guess when you need a sophistic argument you go with whats available.
“Ah, so my opinion doesn’t matter. Only yours. Nice rebuttal.”
Did I say MY opinion mattered? Nope. You’re taking too much of a shine to me. Which I understand. But remember this: opinions are like assholes – that’s your opinion and you’re an asshole. (well, you’re not REALLY an asshole)…
“Sure you do. You are really Mr. Fusion.”
Actually, no I DON’T know what you’re talking about. But, I’ll let you have your little game.
I appreciate your concern of big bad government getting in your way, but it’s YOUR government. You can mold it in the shape it should be. Corporations are the ones shaping your government now, and that’s why your country is fucked up WRT health care, or the lack thereof. What you fail to believe is that your government is a “good thing.” It is. Put the citizens welfare at the forefront like it deserves and let the business fight it out like they should.
#185, So, you give a tax break or credit. Wonderful. The premium is 35000 dollars for the year. should you just take out a loan for the premium and then hope you get it back with your income filing? You haven’t really thought this through.
There are state regulations that limit the size of the premiums to prevent that from happening.
“States recognize each other’s driver’s licenses. It’s called cooperation, not protectionism.”
Ah, so the drivers license infrastructure is exactly the same as insurance registration,
Why is it fanatics always use straw men to try and bolster their arguments?
Sigh. If states can cooperate with driver’s licenses, then then can surely learn to cooperate on other issues. There. Did that help?
Put the citizens welfare at the forefront like it deserves and let the business fight it out like they should.
I agree. And I agree with the problem of large corporations. However, having the government do what is clearly a private industry practice is not the answer. The government, not once, has ever successfully ran a bureaucracy of the size proposed.
# 171 Misanthropic Scott said, “You’re getting robbed now … big time.”
Yep, I don’t need even more hands of low life types in my pockets. Are you for the gov stealing even MORE $ from the citizens via this?
# 142 tcc3 said, “Yes Patrick, stop driving on our evil socialized roads and bridges too. ”
Grow a brain. I pay via gas taxes.
186 LL,
You make two contradictory comments. I like it.
“There are state regulations that limit the size of the premiums to prevent that from happening.”
and
“Sigh. If states can cooperate with driver’s licenses, then then can surely learn to cooperate on other issues. There. Did that help?”
Under which regulation then? See the issue? And that is divisive. And states want money too. Lots of money.
“The government, not once, has ever successfully ran a bureaucracy of the size proposed.”
To coin a phrase…. CITATION NEEDED. Too vague and far reaching a claim to be considered seriously.
Guess I’ll see you on the other health insurance thread?
#189, You make two contradictory comments. I like it.
Only because you refuse to see past the party line.
Under which regulation then?
Google “state insurance premium regulations”.
You’ll get way more information than you need.
“The government, not once, has ever successfully ran a bureaucracy of the size proposed.”
To coin a phrase…. CITATION NEEDED. Too vague and far reaching a claim to be considered seriously.
If you don’t know that, no amount of proof is going to convince you.
Guess I’ll see you on the other health insurance thread?
Absolutely! 🙂
#187 – Patrick,
# 171 Misanthropic Scott said, “You’re getting robbed now … big time.”
Yep, I don’t need even more hands of low life types in my pockets. Are you for the gov stealing even MORE $ from the citizens via this?
You’re still missing the point. It’s the CEO of United Healthcare earning $130,000,000/yr who is robbing you blind.
Would you rather give $30,000/yr to him for insurance that won’t cover most conditions or $20,000/yr to the government to get better coverage and as a side effect cover the 67,000,000 uninsured and underinsured?
For my money, I’d rather spend less, get more, and get everyone covered. This is not a pipe dream; it’s reality in every other developed democratic nation in the world.
Let’s join the civilized countries.
#186, Liberty Loser,
Why is it fanatics always use straw men to try and bolster their arguments?
Like this one?
From #184,
If your wife were dying of cancer and you had the money to save her but that money could be used to save the lives of 10 other people, would you let your wife die to save those other 10?
#190, Liberty Loser,
“The government, not once, has ever successfully ran a bureaucracy of the size proposed.”
To coin a phrase…. CITATION NEEDED. Too vague and far reaching a claim to be considered seriously.
If you don’t know that, no amount of proof is going to convince you.
So the DoD is not well run? Why do you hate our troops.
Every other nation in the Western World has a national health insurance program of some sort. Not one of them is about to go bankrupt, not even Iceland. All their citizens enjoy a better health care system than does the average American. All of them have a longer life expectancy and lower infant mortality than does America.
They can not only do it, but do it well, and for some unknown reason you don’t think Americans can do it? Why do you hate America?
BTW, I have only gotten great service from our local, State run BMV. The only licensing office I ever had a difficult time with was privately owned.
When I called the State Revenue service last year I was on hold for a half hour. It was during tax season but they cleared up the problem right away; in less than 10 minutes. Yesterday I spent over an hour on the phone with my mortgage company about an error they made. Nope, I didn’t get it fixed.
In fact I can’t think of a bad experience I’ve had with government. Well, my bro-in-law had a hard time getting a building permit once. As soon as he called the Sheriff and said the guy was looking for a bribe did the application get signed. He did it in front of the registrar. Of course my bro-in-law got shafted by the electrician who quit in the middle of the job and wanted full pay. Yup, more private enterprise at work.
So what have you been screwed out of because of bad government?
190, Liberty Lawyer
“Google “state insurance premium regulations”.
You’ll get way more information than you need.”
Yes. But none of it related to what you imagine to happen.
Appoligies to John, Paul, George and Ringo
One, two, three, four…
Hrmm!
One, two, (one, two, three, four!)
Let me tell you how it will be;
There’s one for you, nineteen for me.
‘Cause I’m the taxman,
Yeah, I’m the taxman.
Should five per cent appear too small,
Be thankful I don’t take it all.
‘Cause I�m the taxman,
Yeah, I�m the taxman.
(if you drive a car, car;) – I’ll tax the street;
(if you try to sit, sit;) – I’ll tax your seat;
(if you get too cold, cold;) – I’ll tax the heat;
(if you take a walk, walk;) – I’ll tax your feet.
Taxman!
‘Cause I’m the taxman,
Yeah, I’m the taxman.
Don’t ask me what I want it for, (ah-ah, mister Wilson)
If you don’t want to pay some more. (ah-ah, mister heath)
‘Cause I’m the taxman,
Yeah, I’m the taxman.
Now my advice for those who die, (taxman)
Declare the pennies on your eyes. (taxman)
‘Cause I’m the taxman,
Yeah, I’m the taxman.
And you’re working for no one but me.
Taxman!
#191, You’re still missing the point. It’s the CEO of United Healthcare earning $130,000,000/yr who is robbing you blind.
The man is getting paid quite well for making the stockholders happy.
Would you rather give $30,000/yr to him for insurance that won’t cover most conditions or $20,000/yr to the government to get better coverage and as a side effect cover the 67,000,000 uninsured and underinsured?
Him. If you don’t understand that, you are not American.
And don’t get me started on the 20k. The government can’t tie their shoelaces for that.
#192, Why is it fanatics always use straw men to try and bolster their arguments?
Like this one?
From #184,
If your wife were dying of cancer and you had the money to save her but that money could be used to save the lives of 10 other people, would you let your wife die to save those other 10?
That is a very valid argument and not a straw man.
You claim selfishness is not helping others. What’s to say they money you take away from someone can’t be put to good use elsewhere. Put your money where your mouth is. Say you would let your wife die.
So the DoD is not well run?
Nope. $600 hammers?
Every other nation in the Western World has a national health insurance program of some sort.
And every other nation in the Western World has or had a King. Why can’t you think for yourself and stop wanting to be like everybody else. If everybody was jumping off a bridge, would you?
You still haven’t answered my question about why you just don’t move there if it’s the paradise you say it is.
So what have you been screwed out of because of bad government?
50% of my hard earned money.
#194,
“Google “state insurance premium regulations”.
You’ll get way more information than you need.”
Yes. But none of it related to what you imagine to happen.
Take a reading class.