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Daylife/Reuters Pictures used by permission
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| Obama addresses a meeting of millionaires |
Americans overwhelmingly support substantial changes to the health care system and are strongly behind one of the most contentious proposals Congress is considering, a government-run insurance plan to compete with private insurers, according to the latest New York Times/CBS News poll.
The poll found that most Americans would be willing to pay higher taxes so everyone could have health insurance and that they said the government could do a better job of holding down health-care costs than the private sector.
Across a number of questions, the poll detected substantial support for a greater government role in health care, a position generally identified with the Democratic Party. When asked which party was more likely to improve health care, only 18 percent of respondents said the Republicans, compared with 57 percent who picked the Democrats. Even one of four Republicans said the Democrats would do better…
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Daylife/Getty Images used by permission
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| Congressional Republicans say “NO” |
Republicans in Congress have fiercely criticized the proposal as an unneeded expansion of government that might evolve into a system of nationalized health coverage and lead to the rationing of care.
But in the poll, the proposal received broad bipartisan backing, with half of those who call themselves Republicans saying they would support a public plan, along with nearly three-fourths of independents and almost nine in 10 Democrats…
They clearly indicate growing confidence in the government’s ability to manage health care. Half of those questioned said they thought government would be better at providing medical coverage than private insurers, up from 30 percent in polls conducted in 2007. Nearly 60 percent said Washington would have more success in holding down costs, up from 47 percent.
Why should anyone have confidence in insurance companies? Is there anyone left who hasn’t been screwed by their automobile insurance, homeowners coverage, medical insurance company? We all know these slimeballs would steal their mother’s purse if they could skive another 5% from a settlement.
Actually I think we should stop calling it Health Insurance and just admit we are talking about a Health Care Payment Service. Once you do that then the idea of a one payer service is understandable and makes sense.
No need for duplicate services just focus on reducing the services administrative costs and controlling fraud.
Those that are against this should just admit they don’t want tax payer funds to pay for Health Care. The problem is our system of employer paid health care insurance is no longer sustainable do to global competition.
Without employer paid insurance or government paid health care private insurers can pretty much refuse to pay for anything and dump anyone at anytime. The only thing that keeps them in line know is either employers or government. As more people figure this out and more employers have to dump health insurance more people will understand we have to move to a government based system.
#4 Ron
The assumption you’re making is that the current system is the baseline of where we start. This isn’t the case. The current system is half way between the free market and complete socialization that you’re promoting. The truth is that we don’t really know what would happen if it was a true free market, just like we don’t really know what would happen if we socialized it completely.
The real question is which philosophy is better. Should we be moving toward a free market system or a socialized system or something else.
When you say you don’t see the difference between a bureaucrat between you and your doctor and an insurance company between you and your doctor I think you’ve misunderstood the difference between the systems. They both have the incentive to save money but the insurance agent can’t afford to have too many people actually die or even have too many bad experiences. The bureaucrat couldn’t care less about the outcomes. What’s he going to say, ‘oh, sorry about that.’ Lets start an investigation into why so many people are dying.
I say the philosophy where the incentive is to improve care and have cost effectiveness is where we should be going. Socialization provides neither, just distributed suffering.
Yea; it is not like the government runs any other program poorly. They are wonderful at Medicare, Medicaid, Post Office, NEA, FDA, etc. This cannot possibly fail…
#17, So, private insurers never reject someone due to age, disease or “profitability”?
Yes, they do.
So why create another gov agency to do the same thing, yet cost more?
#37, “Please get this through your thick heads. You can have the government run your insurance agency or somebody else do it but you will still get to pay for it. Nobody is going to give you free anything.”
Absolutely. But, when 300 million people pay into a system, it will be cheaper than when 1 million pay into it.
If you really think all 300 million are going to be paying into it, you are insane.
According to Obama’s campaign speeches, only those making over $250,000/yr will pay into it. Unless, of course, he is a liar and will raise taxes even more on everybody.
Are you sure your other name isn’t Mr. Fusion?
#38
Medicare is completely and fully bankrupt. This is EXACTLY why we shouldn’t do Gov’t Healthcare…it will end up like Medicare completely corrupted and bankrupt bringing in no money.
#38, We have a government run health care system now…Medicare. It is only for people over 65. It is well run and doesn’t bankrupt anything. Let’s just extend that system for all.
Which Obama has said is inefficient on numerous occasions. If the current system is so inefficient, what makes him think the next one won’t be?
Dejavu on this subject.. was here yesterday… anyway. The System cant be much worse than we currently have…
I needed a simple Employmenty Physical for my next Job, called the HMO to make an appointment in march… was told nothing available until September.. Real TRUE story.. thats what I got for 450$ per month insurance cost… I went to a private doctor and got everything done in a few days..but at my expense…
Alfred1..what is your personal situation with regard to health care?… How are you paying for it?..We dont know who u are..just tell us.. you are so against what is proposed…can you tell us what your personal situation is? I am curuious.
Get rid of the progressive tax brackets and all exemptions and credits, then we can talk about what most Americans claim they are willing to pay for.
If you want to keep HC costs down, you need to start putting more money back in people’s pockets.
Start giving people tax breaks for all medical related expenses.
Then you don’t have to pay the bureaucrat to do the same thing the patient would be doing.
Of course, that would mean the government giving up control of the cash. Think we could convince them of that?
@ 31 jbenson2
What a load of rubbish and I suspect lies.
Much of my family lives in the Uk. I regularly work with people in the Germany, Ireland and the Uk, as well as all over the US. I’ve lived and worked in these countries too. The US system is awful in any meaningful comparison.
Most of the issues presented in the US about such a system – such as ‘rationing’ or some other such crap, is just scaremongering. Government run health schemes work, and work well. They are more efficient, and cheaper. They are easier and better for citizens. So yeah – the insurance companies are running around screaming the sky’s falling. Its communism – obviously.
They aren’t perfect – but compared to the expensive, personal bankruptcy engine the US has – they are better in almost every dimension.
Other people arguing against it, probably get all their world view from the fox scaremonger network…
At best the arguments against seem to only have some ideological complaint as opposed to any actual experience, or truly pragmatic explanation.
Why should I have to pay for Dvorak’s sex change operation?
If all of these savings can happen, then why wait for a government takeover of health care to implement them? Why not demonstrate these wonderful saving in Medicare right now?
WELL SAID #50… I too work with allot of folks from the aformentioned countries and they are all generally happy with the health care system in their respective countries and have a piece of mind knowing they wont be financially devestated when they become sickly in any manner.. Thanks you for your words freddybobs68k. I tried yesterday in vane to say what you have stated here and now!!!
What the whole argument boils down to is this:
One group of people want the gov’t to be able to take $ out of the wallets of another group of people under threat of force to pay for their H.C. The other group wishes to have free choice as to H.C.
Where is the Free choice now?.. You are tied to some HMO or Health Care Net work or…etc.. and the Doctor you may want may not be “available” becasue everyone wants that doctor, so yuou are assigned a physician… so where is the free choice now you speak of…its all real reterick.. it the minority with all the the money that always get their way at the expense of the majority.. it all has to stop…
Flat tax.. and 1 man 1 vote… that would be a fair america… All of the devestated and Broke economies of europe after WW-II decided to impliment what they have today… Where are we?
#54, heh, and as long as the first group outnumbers the second group, then it’s just democracy working as intended.
# 55 ridin the short us said, “Where is the Free choice now?”
Good question. Currently there too much gov’t interference in what you can and/or must purchase from whom.
Gol darn it !!! That effen spam filter stopped me again. OK, so I’m breaking this up into parts.
#1 & 3,
Hhmmm, it seems Rassmussun is consistently wrong. Didn’t they also call the November election as McCain ahead?
The NYT poll,
85 percent of respondents said the health care system needed to be fundamentally changed or completely rebuilt
http://tinyurl.com/l9klvk
Kaiser Research,
It is more important than ever to take on health
care reform now – 61%
http://tinyurl.com/nk7dp2 pg 4
Part Deux
NBC / WSJ poll,
Do you favor or (Obama’s) plan?
55% – yes
35% – no
http://tinyurl.com/nk7dp2
Pew Research,
Change system so all are covered for necessary care
Favor – 75%
Oppose – 21%
http://tinyurl.com/n59h3h
44 LL,
“So why create another gov agency to do the same thing, yet cost more?”
Health care in the US is currently the most expensive in the world. Other socialized health care in the world is cheaper. You might just be wrong about that point. Now, one thing that socialized care DOESN’T do is kick you off when you get sick. You get treated. And then you get treated again if necessary. Private Insurers do NOT want to treat you even once. It’s bad business to pay out.
“If you really think all 300 million are going to be paying into it, you are insane.
According to Obama’s campaign speeches, only those making over $250,000/yr will pay into it. Unless, of course, he is a liar and will raise taxes even more on everybody.”
First off, Obama is a politician. There has been precious little he has done as promised. All politicians are liars. You do realize that right?
And yes, taxes can be collected at many sources; income, state, sales etc. And all those taxes pay for so many things.
# 58 Mr. Fusion, said, “Didn’t they also call the November election as McCain ahead?”
Nope. They actually had the most accurate results and called Obama as the winner in November. Bzzt. Another box of Rice-a-Roni for ya. BTW- You ran out on the Oberfurer thread when you lied about his ratings…
#30, Named,
He likes to be called Patrick now.
With all due respect to you sir, he will always be Cow-Patty to me. Simply because of the similarity between what she writes and that favorite bovine comment for a lie.
# 56 Sea Lawyer said, “#54, heh, and as long as the first group outnumbers the second group, then it’s just democracy working as intended.”
Correct, like when we had black slavery.
Well, it seems we are all in agreement with my post #54.
If any disagree, please state, in a lucid fashion, your disagreement(s).
Thank you in advance.
I fear that the health insurance companies won’t go lightly on this one. They’ve raised rates about 1000 percent over the last 10 years (remember when you could insure your whole family for under $200 a month?) The most glaring problem I see, which O’s plan doesn’t even start to talk about: we aren’t limiting drug costs (they can charge whatever they want). Add to that a bunch of government workers making decisions…and that spells trouble.
Why not just make all insurance, hospitals and clinics NON PROFIT. What’s the deal with letting them make a profit on the sick and dying? Greedy bastards.
Of course, my experiences may be tainting my view…I will never forget my dying mother sitting in a wheelchair, DISCHARGED before I was able to arrive (I had 30 minutes notice, it was 7am when they called me). She was in great pain and totally confused (brain tumor in her brain stem…from diagnosis to death in 6 weeks). She had GREAT insurance plus Medicare. This is how the insured are treated.
The hospital administrator said “she’s dying, we don’t deal with dying. We NEED the bed.” (Note the hospital was not at full capacity…AND the day my Mom was rousted — the hospital charged for a FULL DAY. They didn’t even wait for a “noon checkout” like the Ritz Carlton would have!)
Our health insurance system has already failed. It’s limping along, and those under-served, under-insured are the very most screwed.
64 Paddy-O
You’re 54 is incorrect. You don’t have free choice now.
So I have to say, if the federal government wants to start up its own health insurance company to “compete” with private companies, then go for it. But it should be opt-in, funded exclusively through premiums paid by members, and it should not have access to the general treasury piggy-bank.
Then we can really measure how much more efficient/competitive the government program is, and not just see another demonstration of how it can use its power to tax and compel participation to low-ball and crowd out private choices.
# 67 Named said, “You’re 54 is incorrect. You don’t have free choice now.”
I said “lucid”. Read the post and show where I said free choice currently exists… Let me know…
#44, Liberty Loser
According to Obama’s campaign speeches, only those making over $250,000/yr will pay into it. Unless, of course, he is a liar and will raise taxes even more on everybody.
Who said only those paying over $250K are financing it? Oh, right, You did so it must be a fact.
#43 if you want to play with Quotes: karl marx Also said… Marx argued that capitalism, like previous socioeconomic systems, will produce internal tensions which will lead to its destruction…
Interesting how things come full circle…