An appeals court has ruled that a Ten Commandments monument at the county courthouse in Stigler, Oklahoma, violates the Constitution because its primary effect is to endorse a religion.
The 10th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruled 3-0 in a challenge to the monument brought by the American Civil Liberties Union of Oklahoma and by a county resident.
“We hold that the [Haskell County commissioners’] actions in authorizing and maintaining the monument . . . had the impermissible principal or primary effect of endorsing religion in violation of the Establishment Clause” of the Constitution, the judges wrote in a 52-page decision…
On May 18, Gov. Brad Henry signed a measure to place a privately funded monument of the Ten Commandments at the Capitol…
The measure passed despite concerns that it could draw a costly legal challenge and could be interpreted as the state’s endorsement of a religion.
This crap never seems to end, does it?
Fair enough. It is a religious symbol – and it’s on a government property. There is the separation of church and state. So it should be removed. Simple.
If you want religious symbols pretty much anywhere else, then that’s okay. At a church. Outside a church. In your house. Outside your house. Etc.
So just take the things down, and lets move on.
If you’re worried about forgetting the 10 commandments, then add a few more tablets at home. Perhaps one above your bed (so you can see it when you wake up and when you go to sleep – ‘course).
Could we at least have the Catholic version of the 10 Commandments posted? If you want to combine church and state, avoid these heretical fundamentalist amateurs and go with a Church that’s had some experience in the matter.
#30, jc,
Damn that thing is ugly. Damn you for sharing.
😉
Wow!, Badtimes. What rock have you been living under!
“And how is President Obama ripping up the Constitution?”
Hummm, let me see..
“Indefinite Detention”? Or maybe not repealing, nor intending to repeal, ANY bit or piece of the Patriot Act?
What about unconstitutional confiscations?
This is a good editorial, worth a look.
http://tinyurl.com/qc2fk9
What about “Barack Obama described the U.S. Constitution as having “deep flaws” … it was a remarkable political document that paved the way for where we are now, and to say that it also reflected the fundamental flaw of this country that continues to this day.”
Obama did not elaborate on the “fundamental flaw” that persists.”
http://tinyurl.com/5u7xpx
The right to unlawful search and seizure and Habeas Corpus are absolute fundamental rights the Obama administration has either eliminated or is trampling.
Bush wanted to tear up the Constitution, Obama’s brought out the shredder. Who is worse?
Bush Lite doing Bush one better.
#28, Mr. Baggins,
Good link. That is one of the more perplexing episodes in our history. I wonder, what ever happened to Sid Caesar, …
@24 Named
The thing that was unique and special about the 10 Commandments was that even the king or the lord of the land had to obey them.
And it was the open recognition that even a king was accountable to a higher calling.
If you look at ancient history, you’ll find all kinds of kings who considered themselves a god in Persia, Egypt, China, etc. and “who could do no wrong”.
The 10 Commandments concept was that it was wrong even for a king to murder an innocent man.
Yes our modern justice, the race and the wealth of a person can affect the outcome. Such is the imperfection of the world.
@13 qb
“the 10 Commandments have a very small influence on modern law when compared with Codex Hammurabi, Greek, and especially Roman law.”
You, sir, need to bone up on your history.
Virtually every civilized nation in the world was at one point in time a colony of a Western power whether it was the Dutch, the British, Spain or Italy.
Most of the non-civilized nations — weren’t!
Coincidence?
We need to get rid of all the religious shit the Taliban wants to erect on government property.
The church and museums are perfect places to display such relics.
A little off-topic, but here is another way Obama is destroying our country.
Very good. Get ready to become a has-been country.
http://tinyurl.com/kkygub
LOL…what a joke. The first FIRST line on that says “Thou shall have no other gods before me.”
Is that a law now? Is that the basis of our legal system? Are Hindu’s jailed for not worshiping Jehovah now? This has nothing to do with our legal system. We HAVE a place for these folks…it’s called a church! OR you can put up 326 of these in your home. Why is that a problem?
And how about this for ear-marks, pork-barrel politics, and no transparency?
“Obama, lawmakers want lots of extras in war funding bill”
http://tinyurl.com/nyv5vy
Bush Lite just keeps pouring it on!
@39
“LOL…what a joke. The first FIRST line on that says “Thou shall have no other gods before me.”
You know, chief, back in the ye old ancient times that people couldn’t get their morality from education and there wasn’t reading or writing.
So they needed a scary god to fear.
And the 10 Commandments were written in ancient times.
Should it be surprising the first commandment specifically stated there was no other god?
What good was the 10 Commandments if there were other gods? It was a statement of self-validation.
It is a part of human history, but was — shock! — a product of the times.
How far we have moved ahead that some of us know right from wrong without needing to fear a sky god that might cast down lightning upon us or send locusts to eat our crops or turn our cities into salt!
But we have so much more improvement to do.
For anybody who thinks the Supreme Court has a carving of the ten commandments….
http://snopes.com/politics/religion/capital.asp
[Please drop the WWW from URLs as WordPress doesn’t display it properly… plus it’s unnecessary. – ed.]
Exodus 20:2–17
4 You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and the fourth generation of those who reject me
Makes Bush look like a Boy Scout helping an old woman across the street 😉
Some of my fellow atheists are “religious significance deniers”.
You know, not only are the 10 Commandments the foundation of modern law …
But most literacy prior to this last century came from people learning how to read — the BIBLE!
In the 1700s, 1800s, 1900s … the BIBLE was what people used a tool to teach their children to read.
If you are TRUE atheist, you are a believer in the importance of truth over feeling.
You don’t deny the significant role that religion has had in shaping both the GOOD and the bad in human history.
Religion had a large role in our cultural evolution and to deny it is no different than the religious zealot who denies dinosaur bones because it doesn’t fit his anti-evolution agenda.
Some people, even today, need a religion to tell them what to do and to keep things simple.
The atheist argument is that it can be done with clarity even without it.
Change the commandments to plain English and update them a bit. Or, just go with this well-established list instead:
A citizen is:
Trustworthy
Loyal
Helpful
Friendly
Courteous
Kind
Obedient
Cheerful
Thrifty
Brave
Clean
and
Reverent
What astonishes me is that the ruling was 56 pages long! How many characters do you need to write “Any fool can see that this is unconstitutional.” ????
Oh, and for those of you who have an issue with “Thou shall not kill” might note that a more accurate translation from the Hebrew is “Thou shall not murder”, which makes a whole lot more sense. But you know how those Christians like to play around with verbage.
Olo, couldn’t you just summarize that list as “Canadian”?
I claim the title of atheist but this monument does not bother me. A set of principles are suggested that would make for a moral world if everyone followed them. And a few more.
However, the more important question is about separation of church and state. I believe if this goes to the SCOTUS it will be found to be Constitutional. The 1st says (in part), “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof…”
Displaying the 10 Suggestions does not establish a religion. After all, the Big 10 are part of three disparate faiths, Judaism, Christianity and (for the most part) Islam. Displaying the Ten certainly does not keep someone from practicing their own religion.
The First Amendment tries to instill freedom OF religion and not freedom FROM religion.
If the ACLU Wasn’t trying to ban religion I’d probably be on their side. As far as I’m concerned a pox on both the right and left wing houses They’re both fascists with different goals.
#36 HMeyers wrote “The thing that was unique and special about the 10 Commandments was that even the king or the lord of the land had to obey them.”
I seem to recall that according to Leviticus, both adulterer and adulteress were to be put to death. However, when King David committed adultery with Bathsheba and later he caused her husband to be killed so he could take Bathsheba as his own wife, the punishment was pretty light. God caused their bastard child to suffer and die, but King David continued ruling almost up until his death, with his son Solomon succeeding him. This is but one example.
If the punishment is not equally applied, then for all practical purposes, the law itself is not equally applied, and such was the case with Mosaic law. It really was less “unique and special” than you seem to think.
Truly moral mythology is difficult to write, and the Bible suffers terribly in this regard.
I like these anti-religious topics. Religion is evil and atheism is so much better.
Why are all the hospitals called things like Lutheran Hospitial, or St Mary’s, or St Jude’s, or Methodist Hospital. I have never seen a hospital called Athiest Hospital.
If the Ten Commandments hadn’t been the guiding light for our founders, we’d surely be a bunch of thieving, adulterous, lying murderers who perform our acts of evil even on the Sabbath.
Whew! We really dodged a bullet!
The Constitution aside, what I object to is the tendency of religious groups to push their believes on everyone else. I don’t like it even if my believes are the same as the one “advertising” his/hers! Belief what ever you will but keep it to yourself, in your church, at home etc. but do not go door to door, “brand” public places or anything of alike.
@Gary
Let’s say that the story is true or at least sort of true (who knows).
Stalin never suffered any consequences for his evil, neither did Mao.
If the story of David in the Bible is a true-ish story a Jewish king, yes he was a bad guy but it’s a handed down attempt at history.
The story itself certainly wasn’t an example for morality.
Half the Senators and wealth rich men in this country think they are a god.
I do believe that in ancient times that powerful kings believed they were gods and could do no wrong. I believe they were probably vindictive, etc.
The stories in the Bible aren’t necessarily well-written, but Aesop’s fables and a lot of Greek mythology has some mighty bad stuff in it as well.
I’m saying the 10 Commandments was one of the most successful — at least in the long run — early attempts to codify morality.
In the ancient times, law was always written by a king or a “god”.
But law written by the king tended to exempt himself — the way Congress exempts itself — at least up until Roman times with dual consuls and medieval times with the Magna Carta.
Please keep all religious displays out of our government buildings. That’s what homes and churches are for.
The Bible isn’t about historical or scientific fact… it’s suppose to be a repository of stories to help calibrate your moral being.
Some people may refute it but honestly, who are you kidding?
Interesting take on the 10 commandments re American law.
“… the Founding Fathers made it clear that Roman law and English common law were the basis of American law, and American Founders also refuted the claim that either Christianity or the Ten Commandments were the basis of English common law. Modern historical analysis provides the same conclusion.”
Lots of legal reference and history. A good read IMO.
http://rationalrevolution0.tripod.com/articles/ten_commandments.htm
Totally unacceptable to have the ten commandments in front of a Courthouse. The courts should be based on the law, not some made up crap from the middle east.
It makes me sick.
The Bible is a horrible book to allow your children to read. Stories such as selling your daughter, sacrificing your son, daughters rape their drunken father, incest, rape, all sorts of nasty things we would freak if were in a cartoon on TV.
I also don’t buy the complaint that Christians are unjustly under attack. I grew up in a Roman Catholic household, went to RC schools, unwillingly went to church every Sunday, attended catechism, went through all the catholic traditions… and I can tell you first hand, that most catholic parents had no problem slapping, punching, kicking their children (ages 5-16) for saying god, or damn. If you let slip that you didn’t believe in adam and eve, or that you didn’t believe in god, you were severly reprimanded, suspended from school, fired from your part time job, and almost always faced physical punishment at home (of which I avouded and was lucky to have rare and sensible parents). Atheists were considered pure evil. No difference considered between a lying thief and an atheist. That stigma has slowly waned as people are becoming more enlightened on the pure hypocrisy of organized religion.
Belief in religion is a MENTAL ILLNESS.
All signs off it should be scrubbed entirely off the planet for the health and safety of all humanity.