Authorities said they had a suspect in custody Sunday afternoon in the shooting death of George Tiller, a Wichita doctor who was one of the few doctors in the nation to perform late-term abortions.
Dr. Tiller, who had long been a lightning rod for controversy over the issue of abortion and had survived a shooting more than a decade ago, was shot inside his church here on Sunday morning, the authorities said. Dr. Tiller, 67, was shot with a handgun inside the lobby of his longtime church, Reformation Lutheran Church on the city’s East Side, just after 10 a.m. (Central Time). The service had started minutes earlier.
Dr. Tiller, who had performed abortions since the 1970s, had long been a lightning rod for controversy over the issue of abortion, particularly in Kansas, where abortion opponents regularly protested outside his clinic and sometimes his home and church.
[…]
“Dr. Tiller was a fearless, passionate defender of women’s reproductive health and rights,” said Nancy Northup, president of the Center for Reproductive Rights, based in New York, which had worked on a legal case related to Dr. Tiller. “It’s time that this nation stop demonizing these doctors, and start honoring them.”
The killer has been caught.
#48
Wait, wow I am confused. So you are saying that when God kills people they may be sent to Detroit? I hope I get murdered by man if that is the case.
Afred,
Oh, I see why you are having trouble with this verse.
“Giving birth prematurely” would mean a miscarriage back then, and other translations render it that way.
Exd 21:22
“When men strive together, and hurt a woman with child, so that there is a miscarriage, and yet no harm follows, the one who hurt her shall be fined,
Viable “preemies” are strictly a modern thing.
Thank Jebus I don’t believe any of this crap.
>> Alfred1 said, on May 31st, 2009 at 7:28 pm
>> Instead, you are just a liar…the Bible means nothing to you…
And now you are disobeying the bible again!
There WAY more bible verses against judgmentalism than abortion, yet you remain highly judgmental! It’s a direct and timeless teaching of Jesus that you disobey!
(And you accuse us liberals of being selective on how we read the bible!)
Well, it’s been charming but I got to go.
To be expected to happen every so often. It is the response that happens when people don’t get their way. Having the ability to air grievances helps reduce this violent tendency. If he had been found not guilty in a full force prosecution instead of a sandbagging job, that would have helped as well.
Larry,
No serious mainstream or liberal Christian read Levitical law the way I and Alfred are doing. That’s just for a very loud, very small wing of the church.
I’m a follower of the bible and have spend years studying it, both personally as formally.
Conservatives CLAIM they are following the whole, literal bible but most of them are extreemly selective about it.
Aldred, for example, focuses on either minor or non-existent teachings yet ignores or blatantly disobeys the very central and timeless teachings of Jesus.
Here’s a thought: Follow the Pro-Lifers own creed and round up all of THEM and shoot them!
With a “head shot” as many on the Pro-Life side have threatened to do to the Pro-Choicers.
Alfred, The Disgusting person, here’a a few more from your imaginary being:
1. Pekah killed 120,000 people in one day and enslaves 200,000 women and children “because they had forsaken the Lord God of their fathers.” 28:6, 8
2. If you make God angry, he’ll burn you and your children to death. 21:9-10 (Wow, how nice of him)
3. The psalmist asks God to do all sorts of unpleasant things to his enemies. “Set thou a wicked man over him; and let Satan stand at his right hand …. Let his prayer become sin.” He asks God to take away his possessions, kill him, and have his children suffer for the sins of their fathers. 109:6-14
4. Beating your children with a rod is a sure sign of parental love. 13:24
5. Beat your children and don’t stop just because they cry. 19:18
6. Beating your children will make them less foolish. Have you beaten your child today? 22:15
7. Beat your children hard and often. Don’t worry about hurting them. You may break a few bones and cause some brain damage, but it isn’t going to kill them. And even if they do die, they’ll be better off. They’ll thank you in heaven for beating the hell out of them. 23:13-14
8. If God can find you, he will “thrust you through,” smash your children “to pieces” before your eyes, and rape your wife. He will have no mercy, but will even kill your little children. 13:15-18
9. God will slaughter children “for the iniquity of their fathers.” 14:21
10. God tries to “correct” people by killing their children. 2:30
11. God will kill children and young men, and the dead bodies “shall fall as dung …. and none shall gather them.” 9:21-22
12. God will punish the people by killing their young men in war and starving their children to death. 11:22
13. God again threatens Jerusalem with mass destruction. Here are some of the highlights: He will kill children, make more widows than there are grains of sand, terrorize cities, and then kill the survivors. 15:7-9
Yep, a real humanitarian….
Wow, this whole thread is just one person with anger issues (or someone who is pretending to be out of joint). If Alfred represents a real person’s views, then I really hope that person is able to get help to come to terms with his hatred and anger. It cannot be fun to live like that.
All this “holyer than thou” and “all is fair in the name of God/Jesus/Whatever” is what is slowly but unstoppingly pushing the U.S. toward extinction as a First World country!
It’s sad that abortion is the ONLY litmus test for so many when there are so many more important issues confronting both the U.S. and the world…
A few more:
1. God will kill children if their parents worship other gods. 16:10-11
2. Jeremiah asks God to kill the young men in war and the children by starvation. 18:21
3. God will make parents eat their own children, “and they shall eat everyone the flesh of his friend.” 19:7-9
4. God mercilessly kills everyone, young and old. He even causes women to eat their children. 2:20-22
5. God punishes the Israelites by starving their children to death. 4:4-9
6. God “accomplishes his fury” by making women eat their children. 4:10-11
7. God will induce miscarriages and kill the children of Ephraim. 9:11-12
8. God punished Nineveh by enslaving the people and smashing the little children in the streets. 3:10
9. Jesus criticizes the Jews for not killing their disobedient children as required by Old Testament law. (See Ex.21:15, Lev.20:9, Dt.21:18-21) 7:9-10
Alfred, I remember another bible quote. It goes something like, “Judge not, lest ye be judged.” Apparently you missed that one.
Regardless, as evidenced by the plethora of biblical quotes above, God apparently has no real concern for children, and possibly even enjoys seeing them eaten. Stop trying to use scripture to justify your own views.
Uncle Dork,:”Or don’t those dead deserve the same as the unborn?” Hee, Ha, Ha, Hee
Yeah, butchering babies and going to war under false pretenses are the same. So…let’s dig up Franklin D. Roosevelt, W.Wilson, J.F.Kenavnedy and hang them for get us into wars regardless of the end results or legal justification.
Uncle Dave the Demoncrat Stalinist you are so full of it, funny and pathetic. You must watch a lot of TV to be this brainwashed. 🙁
Whatever………………..
Traaxx
I detest vigilantism, but I’m not shedding too many tears over this one.
Ooooh! Anybody got the bible verse that says it’s okay to enslave people? That’s the best one!
#70:
‘He is saying “don’t judge others as unworthy of God’s love” not “don’t make any judgments.’
exactly.
Of course everyone will still throw the ‘you can’t judge!’ in your face while, surprise surprise, judging you!
Let’s not forget Kings 2 (do a search on ‘she bears’)
J/P=?
#39
We’ve been over this. You are still wrong and are still interpreting that passage incorrectly. That passage treats children as property. The Bible is most definitely silent on the subject and certainly does not raise abortion to equate to that of murder.
#47
“When God kills, the person is relocated.”
How convenient. With that type of illogical argument, you can justify any murder, no matter how heinous or numerous. Could you be any more hypocritical?
You still haven’t learned how to think logically and you still sound like the high school dropout that you are that has been easily brainwashed. We all expect to hear tales of you being abducted by aliens. Every post makes you sound even more ignorant than the last. Seriously, you are making a fool of yourself. It is time for you to wake up and start thinking like an adult.
Your religion, indeed no religion, has justification for killing Tiller. None. Tiller was already human; none of the fetuses that were destroyed were. You are a hypocrit. Your religion is founded by a man that preached to turn the other cheek and if you live by the sword you will die by the sword. As with all hypocrites, you want to pick and choose those parts of your fictional book that you like and reinterpret the rest.
I can’t put my finger on it, but there’s something almost hilarious about a bunch of atheists railing against Christians for being hypocrites.
22 “If men fight, and hurt a woman with child, so that she gives birth prematurely, yet no harm follows, he shall surely be punished accordingly as the woman’s husband imposes on him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.
23 “But if any harm follows, then you shall give life for life,
24 “eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,
25 “burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.
(Exo 21:22-25 NKJ)
That portion of the Bible is horribly written since there are no definite pronouns which makes its meaning vague and unclear. Look at all the different English translations
some are translated as “23But if she is seriously injured, the payment will be life for life, 24eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25burn for burn, cut for cut, and bruise for bruise.” (Contemporary English Version)
some include miscarriage as part of “to give birth early.” I didn’t read them all but I didn’t see any that explicitly state “If the baby is killed then…”
I thought Jesus threw out the old testament’s restrictions anyway, otherwise Christians would be keeping kosher and wouldn’t wear poly cotton blends.
#76
I suggest you wash you finger since it has clearly been hidden in your backside. I’m not sure what you find hypocritical. Atheists simply refute the claim that a deity exists. It is Christians that actively market their deity and doctrines as one of “love”. Not so as Alfred has established. What happened to letting your deity decide people’s fate? Perhaps you are unclear on the concept of hypocrisy. Religion is a good place to witness it first hand.
Apparently I left out a / in the link
[Fixed]
#77:
“I thought Jesus threw out the old testament’s restrictions anyway, otherwise Christians would be keeping kosher and wouldn’t wear poly cotton blends.”
If that’s the case, there go the ten commandments, including ‘thou shalt not kill.’ Therefore the gunner is not a hypocrite.
#80
Except for:
“Turn the other cheek”
“All they that take the sword shall perish with the sword”
“Judge not, that ye be not judge”
“Forgive those who repeatedly offend you.”
And most of all:
“Love thy neighbor as thyself”
#78 Thomas:
I never said that I find it funny because atheists are hypocrites.
What’s funny is that atheists think they know how Christians are supposed to interpret the bible. In particular, they think Christians are supposed to be textualists.
My understanding is that much of the interpretation is divine inspiration, so unless you’re privy to what God says to a Christian, how would you know what the correct interpretation of the bible is?
I’m an atheist, but I don’t claim to know how a Christian is supposed to interpret their book. So to me, it’s almost comical when an atheist blabbers “UR DOING IT WRONG!” to a Christian.
#82 Thomas:
Yeah, but none of those is incompatible with ‘do whatever is necessary to protect people from being killed,’ which is what Christians believe they’re doing when they kill an abortion doctor.
#81
I refute that which has no evidence which cannot be established using the scientific method of observe, hypothesize, test and analyze. I refute circular arguments riddled with common argument fallacies such as yours. If you provide tangible, independently verifiable, objective evidence said things exists, I’ll believe. Until then, it is the equivalent of purple leprechauns.
The rules of murder and your revulsion against it should apply regardless of religion however it should be especially repulsive given the teachings of the religion in which you claim to believe. Any justification of said murder is more evidence of your hypocrisy.
#84
I dunno. Love thy neighbor and the Golden Rule would seem to preclude killing someone. Unless you want other people to kill you. ;->
The New Testament seems to be fairly clear against killing. Jesus’ teachings were pretty radical for the time period in which most Jews wanted to revolt against the Romans. I think given his teachings it is hard to argue “justifiable homicide.”
Hypocritical? Yes. Typical? No. This guy is just another crazy who acted out because things didn’t go his way. This isn’t just a hypocritical Christian thing. Once someone commits murder, is there any point to calling them a hypocrite? Sort of like saying “Fur is murder…and theft!”
Why do people always try to reason with those who commit heinous acts. Would it have been better if he were a Satanist?
#87
It is hypocritical for Christians, or anyone, to justify this lunatic’s actions. Whether the gunman felt justified in his actions is an entirely separate question from whether other Christians justify the gunman’s actions.