 What?!?! |
Cold water on waterboarding | Philadelphia Inquirer — Interesting. FYI
A former FBI interrogator who questioned al-Qaeda prisoners testified yesterday that the Bush administration incorrectly declared success from extreme techniques such as waterboarding, when those methods actually were slow, unreliable, and led an important witness to stop talking.
Ali Soufan, testifying to a Senate panel from behind a screen, said his team’s nonthreatening interrogation approach elicited crucial information from al-Qaeda operative Abu Zubaydah, including intelligence on Jose Padilla, who was convicted of supporting an al-Qaeda cell.
Soufan said his team had to step aside when CIA contractors took over. They began using harsh methods that caused Zubaydah to “shut down,” Soufan said, and his team had to be called back.
Diesel…she didn’t get the job because of her skills. If that was a requirement, the Dems likely would have another Speaker.
More noise from smart republicans on torture today…Powell’s top aide is talking smack about Cheney too.
#81 OBoB
Obviously the Democrats would like to have someone else. Someone with an IQ above single digits that can speak well in public who isn’t a fucking liar.
I doubt whether we can have that from either of the two ruling parties nowadays.
84,
And if the person/people you are waterboarding turns out to be completely innocent, would you not consider the act of randomly torturing people an act of terrorism?
#83, methinks I hear the chirping of the rare ruby-throated apologist, sometimes known as Alfred1.
As you say, God’s killing of the firstborn male children wasn’t an act against them per se, but against their parents and siblings. How much hatred for those families does it take to intentionally kill their child, or their brother? How do you explain to an inconsolable little boy or girl that their big brother was killed by a god who loves them very much and wants the best for them, despite the fact that he killed their sibling in an effort to coerce the Pharaoh to do his will?
Once you allow yourself to justify the killing of innocent children as a purposeful act of god, it then becomes clear that nothing in the world is so obviously evil that you can be sure it’s not an equally justifiable act of god. According to your line of reasoning, you cannot have any certainty that Osama bin Laden wasn’t acting at God’s behest, because killing innocent people is God’s rightful choice, and God is obviously never required to announce his servants for your recognition and approval.
When a god continually exercises his right as Creator to actively bring pain and suffering to even the most innocent among his creation, for whatever purpose, claims of love and justice ring quite hollow. God ends up looking even more thuggish than the people who invented him.
Perhaps the best use of your “god-given conscience” has always been for recognizing the nature of false gods in the world by the evil they do. You’ve obviously got your conscience switched to the “off” position, Alfred1.
It is interesting how the debate (and apparent blamecasting) has turned from those who planned and executed the torture to some of the people who were briefed on the plan. Pelosi may be a liar, but that does not reduce the Bush administrations condonement, planning, and execution of an official USA torture program.
That stain is on this country’s soul, and every one of you evil anti-american f*cktards that defend torture only make that stain moree ugly and deep. You people better pray I never meet you in public, because I will carry out on you in person the shit you approve of for others. Your pro-torture stance means you support my beating a position reversal from you, right?
#86, Ayatollah1,
#85 Then compensation is called for…
What? No criminal charges? An assault is an assault. There is no justification for law enforcement assaulting someone they have in custody.
How does someone sue the American government when they will use their “secrets” powers to prevent any trial from even taking place?
Water boarding, as proved by KS Muhammed who was had it done over 80 times,
Lets make an analogy. Mohamed Ali was hit in the head many times by very strong men over his career. Can we use that as an excuse to say beating you about the ears is OK because it doesn’t cause permanent damage?
Or how about the mental aspect. Did all the bullying you went through as a kid damage you later in life? Don’t answer, we know the end result.
Those taken for possible water boarding were involved in terrorist attacks, they didn’t find these people at the mall minding their own business.
Oh, another one that knows all the secrets. We are discovering more all the time about how many people were tortured. It has been reported that every person that was detained in Guantanamo was tortured. Of the over 800 that were there at one time, approximately only 60 are a serious danger or ever had any valuable information. That adds up to a hell of a lot of innocent people tortured. For your pleasure.
A sizable number, we don’t really know how many, were abducted by Afghan Warlords and sold to the Americans for the bounty. They could have been enemies of the Warlords or just innocent people in the neighborhood.
We don’t stop all law enforcement, just because someone innocent might be inconvenienced.
And we don’t stoop to the level of the terrorist to accomplish terror. We don’t allow “law enforcement” to shoot innocent people on whims. We don’t let law enforcement extract revenge. We have a legal system in this country. And that is what differentiates a civilized society from the lawless, tribal warfare you wish to install.
Why do you hate America?
Repeating two cornerstones:
1. There is no god, and if there was, he should be contested.
2. Hypotheticals like the “ticking bomb” used to discuss torture are very misleading to those with IQ’s of 150+. We with lower IQ’s remember that such hypotheticals begin with “if” and in real life, those if practically never occur. Further, such Teen Age Agression is very short sighted aimed at winning a battle with no view towards the war.
Silly hoomans.
So you wouldnt mind being waterboarded, or beaten, or any other form of torture that doesnt leave any permanent PHYSICAL effects, if a child on your street goes missing.
The always-entertaining Alfred1 wrote “Its [sic] His right to do with His how He wills and you have no standing to complain.”
You should print that up on a religious tract and start ringing doorbells. Your cult would grow quickly, I’m sure 😉
#99 Alfred1, I’m much less afraid of God than I am of his “servants.” It’s only these minions, acting with what they believe to be the absolute authority of the Creator, who seize me with any sort of terror.
After all, if you believed that God wanted you to kill me, wouldn’t you obey without question?
So we should leave the waterboarding to the angels then…
#102 Alfred1 wrote “Its [sic] impossible God order us to physically attack others… He has already given that job to His angels…”
Your god has apparently changed dramatically from his demeanor in the Old Testament. In those days, he thought nothing of authorizing his servants to attack and kill people (the wicked, wicked enemy and sometimes their children).
So then, how can you be sure that he hasn’t morphed again, revealing his new persona to Muhammad as the Muslims have claimed? Their new revelations about the god of Abraham are actually closer to the Old Testament depiction than the Christian version is. Once you’ve realized that god changes radically over time and makes new covenants, you can no longer be sure that your religion is the latest expression of his divine will.
I didnt ask you if you would USE it in law enforcement, I asked you if you would mind BEING waterboarded, as you may have information which could save the childs life.
I didnt say questioning, im talking about “advanced interogation techniques” or however you want to make torture sound acceptable.
So you think its acceptable to torture terrorists but not criminals? What exactly is the difference? Does a kidnapper not terrorize parents? Does a murder not terrorize those with a life to lose?
Or is the difference that when we respect the rights of individuals and allow due process make a suspect a criminal, and when they are illegaly detained they are a terrorist?
I’m a moonbat barker, and proud of it!!