Although I’m a fan of free enterprise, America really doesn’t have a banking system. I’m trying to buy a house and I have excellent credit, 15% to put down and excellent documentation. I’ve borrowed and repaid millions of dollars in my life but the lending world has gone bizarre.
First, I’m probably going to end up with a lender that has a lower net worth than I do who is going to lend me money they borrowed from my taxes, to give me a loan that I’ll have to buy insurance to cover, and they are paying nothing in interest for. I’d rather borrow money from the government than put up with the crap I’ve been dealing with. I’m no fan of socialism, but this is hardly capitalism. It’s just plain insanity!
Anyone else having problems getting a home loan? Got any tips and tricks?
#45, Cow-Patty,
#44 Correct. Right now there is a shortage of Primary care MDs. That has been driven by Medicare pricing policies. A good example of what you mention in your second from last sentence.
So Medicare is the reason there is a shortage of doctors in this country? No physician is required to opt in to caring for Medicare or Medicaid patients. And many don’t.
How about the reason for too few doctors is that there are too few schools graduating them along with an aging and sicker population.
#44 & #45: Let me help you guys out the majority of people don’t care which “ism” is used to deliver health care and they also don’t care about supply/demand or any other economic theories.
We are not talking about TVs or Cars. When it comes to health care – care that can mean the difference between life or death, the majority of people now believe the Government should be used to assure the availability, affordability, and quality of health care.
Either the private sector will deliver an acceptable product or Government will be used to do so. One way or another costs will be spread across society.
Those that want to work together to build the best system possible will.
Those that think the answer is build a system that doesn’t provide care for everyone and should ration the care based on a persons income – well I am sure there is a special place in He** for you. Please feel free to go there at any time.
# 48 atmusky said, “We are not talking about TVs or Cars. When it comes to health care – care that can mean the difference between life or death”
Food is even more impotant, housing in non-temperate areas more so.
So, I should be forced to pay for your food and housing if you don’t? F off.
Paddy Zero,
Let me ask you this. If socialized medicine is so bad, why is it that the insurance companies are fighting to stop the government from offering it as an alternative?
Clearly socialized medicine will never catch on because private care is so much better, right?
So, exactly what are the insurance companies so worried about?
Perhaps they know, as most of us already do, that socialized medicine will be cheaper and better. Perhaps they fear for the $130,000,000 salaries of their CEOs. Just a thought.
Careful … don’t drool. Just answer the question.
# 51 Misanthropic Scott said, “If socialized medicine is so bad, why is it that the insurance companies are fighting to stop the government from offering it as an alternative?”
It isn’t being offered as an “alternative”. If it was it would not be mandatory. Are you saying that the plan is to have a gov’t program that NO ONE is required to purchase? Let’s see it. Link please.
#52 – Paddy Zero,
It’s an alternative for those of us who already have health insurance. I want to buy into the plan instead of keeping the one from my company.
If it were only for the uninsured, health insurance companies wouldn’t give a shit. I’m asking you why health insurance companies are fighting it.
#53 Link please showing it is an option rather a mandatory…
Scott, why don’t tell us EXACTLY and COMPLETELY what the plan entails? I’m sure that IF you do so, the answer will be plainer than day…
#48, Healthcare is exactly like TVs and cars, in that it has a cost to provide, and the cost places a limit on the amount that will be provided. There will never be enough to go around to everybody, and so there will always be rationing. It can either be rationed via the market price mechanism, or by policy. The government has an ability (but not unlimited) to provide services beyond what the market can, but this too comes at a cost of those resources not being available for other things. There will always be costs and trade-offs.
#51, Scott, speaking in a very general sense. I’d say that if I was running a private firm, I wouldn’t be too pleased if the government decided one day to directly compete against me either, considering that the government isn’t on equal footing as a competitor. It has the power to set/alter the rules under which I can operate. It has the power to compel participation in their programs. It can offer them without regard for recouping the costs. And it can tax me to help pay for their competing services.
Cow-Patty,
Why can’t you answer a simple question? Why are the insurance companies fighting to offer health insurance as an alternative?
# 58 Mr. Fusion said, “Why are the insurance companies fighting to offer health insurance as an alternative?”
They’re fighting to offer health insurance as an alternative?
Really?
#56 – Paddy-tr-0-ll,
Scott, why don’t tell us EXACTLY and COMPLETELY what the plan entails? I’m sure that IF you do so, the answer will be plainer than day…
Keep it up … somewhere … someday … you will make a point again. Until then, will you ever answer my question?
Anyway, here’s the answer to yours, though you don’t deserve an answer since you flatly refuse to answer my question. Perhaps you fail to answer because you know your position is a completely stupid one.
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/healthcare/
Get it? Like your plan, keep it. Don’t like your plan? Switch to the government plan.
So, why do insurance companies oppose this? Will they be able to compete with the national plan? I doubt it. So, apparently, do they.
Oops. I forgot about the triple W again. Sorry eds. I wonder if there’s a Firefox plugin for DU to convert all URLs to tiny on submit.
#60 http://barackobama.com/pdf/issues/HealthCareFullPlan.pdf
What a joke. That isn’t a detailed plan. It is a list of goals.
Is that the most detailed doc that has been put out? God, I hope not.
#62 – Paddy-assh-0-ll,
I assumed you wanted to know Obama’s plan. If you were talking about either the senate or the house, you’d have to look at whatever bill is being passed.
Either way, you still refused to answer the question.
Why do the health insurance companies believe they can’t compete with the government and still claim they are better? How can they have it both ways?
I have now answered you. It’s time for you to answer or STFU!
#63, Scott,
“Why do the health insurance companies believe they can’t compete with the government and still claim they are better? How can they have it both ways?”
I suppose I could use satellite radio as a comparable example. Satellite radio is a superior product to terrestrial radio, but terrestrial radio is free for the consumer, and satellite is not. The problem for satellite radio isn’t that they can’t provide a better product, it’s that they have to provide a $9.99 a month better product than what can be listened to for free. As a consequence, they cannot compete and are likely to not exist down the road.
Private medial insurers would likely face a similar problem. The government program will always be able to offer lower prices than a private program because it can offset costs through taxation. So the problem for the private insurer isn’t to private services of equal quality, but to provide them of superior enough quality for an individual to justify spending the price difference for the private service when he’s already partially paid for the government one.
#65, Why would you be able to just assume your doctor will participate in the government plan? Is he not going to have a choice in the matter and get stuck with whatever payment schedule the government decides to dictate to him, or is it going to be like the current Medicare and private networks, where Doctors choose to participate?
To your questions: I said the price will likely be lower because it can make the rest up through taxation, I didn’t mean to suggest I think the total costs will be any less. It could be less, it could be more, I haven’t an informed guess to offer so I won’t speculate.
Thank you #65.
I will state again what the majority of Americans want is a health care system where health care is available, affordable, of high quality and results in the improved health of all Americans.
Unfortunately it is clear from some of the posts in this thread that some people do not agree with that goal and prefer a system that provides poor care to many, while waisting money.
Frankly if anyone believes that a health care system ran by an insurance industry that is financially rewarded when they find ways to avoid providing health care is going to provide a health care system that we want – well I have a bridge – it will make a great investment for you.
To actually get a health care system that most of us want will require many changes. I am fairly sure all most everyone will not like some of them. Which is why not much will happen until what we have completely implodes.
#66 – Sea Lawyer,
Regarding whether it will cost society more or less, we have only the statistics of every other developed democratic nation on the planet to go by. IMNSHO, it will cost less, or at least the costs will rise more slowly. It may take a bit of time to really get it up to speed. Frankly, offering the choice of the national plan or the private one means that those of us with means can pick up the public plan whenever it becomes the better option. That may or may not be immediately.
I would also expect my doctor to participate in the national plan because I think the national plan will be more likely to be set up to provide health care instead of denying it. I know he has already dropped a number of private insurers because they are too limiting and don’t allow him to provide good care under their plans.
I could be wrong, but those are my expectations based on years of too much experience with our medical system and comparing it with my brief view of real medical care in France, where my mother went for experimental brain surgery.
#67 – atmusky,
Thanks for the bridge offer. However, over the years that I have been making health payments, I think I already deserve to own that bridge. I’ve got my claim staked out on the Brooklyn Bridge, nice, historic, has Peregrines nesting on it, …
#63. I can’t analyze the Ins Companies reaction as I don’t know WHAT they are reacting to.
If you came running up to me and said, I’m scared and getting out of here because a monster is coming.” I wouldn’t know what you are really frightened about.
Since Obama either, A: Has no actual plan or B: Doesn’t want the public to see his plan. I have to way to analyze his plan. Clear?
#69 – Paddy-tr-0-ll,
No. Nothing about what you are saying is clear. You are flatly refusing to answer a pointed question and are being a jerk about it pretending that you are making a point.
You can read the guidelines Obama has specified that he wants met. That is what congress should be trying to do.
You then ask me to evaluate a plan that 435 people have not yet written or agreed to and that the other 100 people have not yet read and that the president has not yet signed and tell you whether or not that will allow you to choose whether or not to be on the national plan.
Obama’s guideline is that there will be choice.
You assert that there will not be. It is up to you to prove your point. And yes, it is up to you to answer the damn question.
If private health care is obviously better than public health care, why are the insurance companies fighting against having an option for public health care?
Answer or STFU!!
# 70 Misanthropic Scott said, “No. Nothing about what you are saying is clear. You are flatly refusing to answer a pointed question ”
You want me to answer questions about a plan that doesn’t exist. Got it. Cut down on the psychotropics and then get back to me.
#71 – Paddy-O,
Well then, would you enlighten us please? Based on exactly what did you make the following statement, emphasis mine.
#52 Paddy-O said, on April 29th, 2009 at 11:54 am
# 51 Misanthropic Scott said, “If socialized medicine is so bad, why is it that the insurance companies are fighting to stop the government from offering it as an alternative?”
It isn’t being offered as an “alternative”. If it was it would not be mandatory. Are you saying that the plan is to have a gov’t program that NO ONE is required to purchase? Let’s see it. Link please.
Exactly where did you get the idea anything was not an alternative but was mandatory? You seem to have changed your tune now.
Can I at least assume that you will not again make this stupid assertion? Probably not. I’ll just keep a link to this thread on which you were proven wrong for the next time you make your unfounded claim.
Paddy?
Guess you’re silence indicates that you admit to making a counterfactual statement.