Spanish prosecutors have decided to press forward with a criminal investigation targeting former U.S. Attorney General Alberto Gonzales and five top associates over their role in the torture of five Spanish citizens held at Guantánamo, several reliable sources close to the investigation have told The Daily Beast. Their decision is expected to be announced on Tuesday before the Spanish central criminal court, the Audencia Nacional, in Madrid.
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Spanish prosecutors have decided to press forward with a criminal investigation targeting former U.S. Attorney General Alberto Gonzales and five top associates over their role in the torture of five Spanish citizens held at Guantánamo
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The reaction on American editorial pages is divided—some questioning sharply why the Obama administration is not conducting an investigation, which is implicitly the question raised by the Spanish prosecutors. Publications loyal to the Bush team argue that the Spanish investigation is an “intrusion” into American affairs, even when those affairs involve the torture of five Spaniards on Cuba.The Bush Six labored at length to create a legal black hole in which they could implement their policies safe from the scrutiny of American courts and the American media. Perhaps they achieved much of their objective, but the law of unintended consequences has kicked in. If U.S. courts and prosecutors will not address the matter because of a lack of jurisdiction, foreign courts appear only too happy to step in.
In a vaguely related topic, PETA wants Obama to stop the military’s torture. Of animals, that is.
Fantasia.
It’s when Europeans want to conduct criminal investigations of American public officials.
As if.
Good question, can Spanish law extend to punish those who committed their crimes without leaving another country? There will be quite the fight to get extradition of all those indited, but I am quite sure there is enough information available.
And I don’t think many countries will refuse a Spanish Arrest warrant.
Good thing Alberto resides in Gitmo West where he is safe. No travel abroad for you Al … ever.
If Obamba doesn’t have the balls [or political capital] to do it I’m happy to have someone else take it on.
America would be a far far better place if Bush, Gonzales, The Dickster and their henchmen were never in office, but since they were then the crimes they committed must be prosecuted.
More important than punishing the thugs in Cheney’s Administration is motivating the would be thugs in the current administration and future ones NOT to go down that road.
That, or for everyone to stop being hypocrites – withdraw from all treaties that don’t allow torture and tell our fighting men and boys that they are on their own.
Choices.
Classic European Thought-Police – let’s throw people in jail for offering an opinion.
@jbenson2
Is the word “opinion” a new euphemism for war crimes?
#8–Pedro==good point. For my info–what would happen if Castro somehow hopped a plane to Madrid? Would he get arrested?
The Spanish are nuts. This will be fun to see play out. BTW- Where’s their investigation of Chinese officials for mass murder?
LOL!
#10–Paddy==why do you say the Spanish are nuts? Why should the USA not be put on trial if we tortured in violation of several treaties we agreed to be bound by? I say “on trial” with the guilt to be based on evidence.
You know, last year some people say I ran over my neighbor’s kid and killed him, and that silly guy is still living in the past, talking about prosecuting me. Let’s look forward! Dwelling on the past isn’t going to make things any better!
For the irony-impaired, this is just a restatement of what Bush and Obama want to do. There is clear evidence that members of the Bush administration violated the law. But Obama wants to “put it behind us” and “move forward”. Which is bullsh*t… if the law was broken, we must prosecute the people who did it. Otherwise future administrations (and even Obama’s) will consider themselves above the law.
Where are the law’n’order Republicans when we need them? I guess their law’n’order philosophies only apply to Democrats. 🙁
# 11 bobbo said, “why do you say the Spanish are nuts? Why should the USA not be put on trial ”
So, you want Pres Clinton on trial also, by a country with no jurisdiction and a political axe to grind (as evidenced by them not gong after worse offenders), let me know your answer…
#12 Phydeau
If you want to know WHY the Obama administration is pushing for the “put it all behind us”, read this:
http://tinyurl.com/2bqjj8
“In September 2002, four members of Congress met in secret for a first look at a unique CIA program designed to wring vital information from reticent terrorism suspects in U.S. custody. For more than an hour, the bipartisan group, which included current House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.), was given a virtual tour of the CIA’s overseas detention sites and the harsh techniques interrogators had devised to try to make their prisoners talk. … The lawmakers who held oversight roles during the period included Pelosi and Rep. Jane Harman (D-Calif.) and Sens. Bob Graham (D-Fla.) and John D. Rockefeller IV (D-W.Va.), as well as Rep. Porter J. Goss (R-Fla.) and Sen. Pat Roberts (R-Kan).”
FOUR Democrats including darlings Pelosi, Graham, and Rockefeller, with only two Republicans!
Do you believe for a minute that Obama is going to allow an investigation???
BTW Bobbo, you do know that the atty who started this ball rolling spent years in jail for collaborating/helping terrorists, right?
Glad you have fully informed yourself about this situation…
#13–Paddy Zero==I asked you why you think the Spanish are nuts, not why the USA would be nuts to submit to jurisdiction. Can you try again?
As to the Spanish Prosecutor, so what? That fact on its own means nothing. Care to link it to anything relevant?
This sounds like bluster to me. If Obama felt the charges were valid, then he’d start an investigation here and have them prosecuted using the American courts. That is the real decision here. Whether he decides to investigate or not, the Spanish need to be told they can pound sand if they think we’re going to let them prosecute an American official over disagreements about policy.
#14 Ah_Yea, standard Republican bullsh*t: “Us Republicans did all this horrible stuff, but you Democrats didn’t stop us, so it’s your fault!”
Us liberals are trying to put political pressure on Obama to stop this, in case you didn’t notice. Unfortunately for you Republicans, you don’t have a leg to stand on criticizing Obama for all this nasty stuff, because it was just fine and dandy with you when Bush was president.
Obama is missing the boat on this one.When he goes after the Bushies the talking heads will drop everything to defend them.They won’t have time to whine about his other policies.While Eric Holder is at it he should indict about 20 bank C.E.O’s.
Is it a good idea to get in the habit of purging the outgoing administration when the new one comes into power? It won’t stop there. No President would ever step down after four or eight years if he knew this would be the case. At worse, you get a dictatorship; at best you get a revolution.
Now I know this is Spain doing the prosecution, but they don’t have jurisdiction. What would stop other countries from charging and prosecuting Spanish officials? It could go on and on until every Spanish person and every US person has charges against them in the other country. It would lead to reprisal prosecutions.
#18 Phydeau
You didn’t read the link, did you?
If you had, then you could address the issue, which is that powerful Democrats were in charge of overseeing the “Enhanced Interrogation Techniques” which the Spanish want to charge Gonzales for.
He wasn’t working in the dark. Remember, Gonzales was not the Attorney General until February 14, 2005. What? Dems knew about Waterboarding for a full 3 years BEFORE Gonzales?
Oh, I bet your head is spinning! This can’t be so! Oh, no! My party couldn’t have been lying to me!
Hopefully you now see that Obama cannot allow an investigation into Gonzales because it would unearth for all the world to see how deeply involved the Democrats were in the entire Gitmo debacle.
Now, sit down, breath deeply, take a pill, and contemplate that our government, both Republican and Democrat, are in bed with each other far more than the want us sheeple to know.
#22–Pedro==thanks. I had to google Pinochet to be reminded. Spain did indict but he died before prosecution. I recalled those events but had to be reminded.
I guess it would be “pretty terrible” if all of the war criminals of the world began to doubt their protection by their successors===even in America. Politics. Even/Especially in America.
Is it a good idea to get in the habit of purging the outgoing administration when the new one comes into power? It won’t stop there. No President would ever step down after four or eight years if he knew this would be the case. At worse, you get a dictatorship; at best you get a revolution.
This isn’t “purging”, it’s prosecuting people who appear to have broken the law while they were in office. If an administration doesn’t want to get “purged”, it shouldn’t break the law. Simple as that.
We’re supposed to be a nation ruled by laws, not by men. If we let these men get away with breaking the law, then we’re no better than any petty dictatorship where the dictator gets to do anything he wants.
If you had, then you could address the issue, which is that powerful Democrats were in charge of overseeing the “Enhanced Interrogation Techniques” which the Spanish want to charge Gonzales for.
Nice try, Ah_Yea. Ever since 9/11 the Republicans have said that if you don’t give them everything they want, then you’re an America-hating Terrorist lover. I’m sure the Democrats’ “overseeing” involved the Bush administration telling them that they better approve whatever Bush wants, or they will be called out as terrorist-loving America haters and will be blamed if America is attacked again. And they fell for it.
I blame the Democrats for not having more spine, for not stopping the criminality, but I blame the Republicans more for committing the crimes in the first place.
But like I said before, the Republicans have no sense of responsibility. They do all kinds of nasty stuff then blame the Democrats for not stopping them. The Democrats are somehow supposed to be more responsible than the Republicans. Sorry, that ain’t gonna fly.
Unfortunately, Bush’s pals knew all about the Nixon/Watergate precedent Ford set, maybe they were even beneficiaries of that “move forward” policy. Seems they planned on the same thing happening in 2009. But IMO this one is different than Watergate, and I hope they get their balls smashed.
So there’s more people who don’t care about American sovereignty. I suppose the Muslim sharia courts are also acceptable too.
Also, Ivan Demjanjuk has been ordered for deportation to Germany. After giving themselves an amnesty, they are charging Ivan for being a guard at a camp, but not the camp they arrested and gave him the death penalty for 20 years ago.
The Repugs are criticing Spain on the basis of “other countries are worse”. Again, the oldie but goodie excuse of “Bush is no worse than other criminals”. Wow.
The fact is, Spain may soon join the state of Vermont on arresting a Bush regime official.
Unlikely an arrest will happen as Cheney and Gonzalez will take refuge in Christian Taliban safe houses. Still, it’s highly symbolic.
#25 Phydeau
“The Democrats are somehow supposed to be more responsible than the Republicans.”
That’s the point. Democrats are JUST AS responsible as Republicans for the Gitmo mess. Not only did the Democratic leadership go along with Gitmo, but in fact SUPPORTED Gitmo.
That is, until it became politically convenient not to…
Pelosi and Co. were not kowtowed by Bush, they were in bed with Bush.
So get off the excuse that the entire Democratic party were impotent, sniveling cowards afraid of the towering menace of G W Bush.
Do you really expect anyone to believe that Pelosi and Rockefeller were afraid of Bush?
Like you said, “that ain’t gonna fly.”
The leadership of the party jumped in bed with Bush, and now Obama will have to do anything and everything he can to keep their depth of involvement from becoming public knowledge.
# 31 Ah_Yea, you are a pathetic little twerp, not man enough to acknowledge the Republicans’ responsibility in this mess. The executive branch has all the advantage here. At oversight hearings, they can parade all kinds of military and terrorism “experts” in front of congressmen who are not experts in these fields. The congressmen have to trust the executive branch, because they’re the ones entrusted with military and anti-terrorism activities. As we sadly found out, Bush’s military and anti-terrorism “experts” were idiots, to put it mildly. The Democratic congressmen should have questioned Bush’s experts more, but they didn’t. That is their part of the fault. The greatest part by far is the Bush administration’s, their f*ckups are widely known. They lied, and broke the law, and lied about breaking the law, and now they don’t want to take responsibility for what they’ve done. And you’re trying to excuse them too, you little weasel.
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!