A Polish politician has criticized his local zoo for acquiring a “gay” elephant named Ninio who prefers male companions and will probably not procreate.
“We didn’t pay 37 million zlotys ($11 million) for the largest elephant house in Europe to have a gay elephant live there,” Michal Grzes, a conservative councilor in the city of Poznan in western Poland, was quoted as saying.
“We were supposed to have a herd, but as Ninio prefers male friends over females how will he produce offspring?” said Grzes, who is from the right-wing opposition Law and Justice party.
Any nutballs out there who aren’t hungup over everyone else’s sex life?
What never ceases to amuse me is that the religious right COULD use homosexuality in animals to disprove Evolution by clamining that if Homosexuality leads to an evolutionary cul de sac since the gay & lesbian animals do not produce any offspring, then why homosexual animals are still being born? Shouldn’t Evolution weeded that out?
But alas, they’re too busy demonizing homosexuality while they tap dance in public restrooms.
#66 So what’s your point in bringing up AIDS? People catch AIDS from homosexual activity and from heterosexual activity. The vast majority of AIDS cases are from heterosexual activity.
Looks like you’re saying we should ban heterosexual sex because so many people get AIDS from it.
Seriously, what’s the point in bringing up AIDS?
#64, Religion is certainly an aspect of the taboo but it might be argued it was taboo long before organized religion took hold.
Where are the great married Gay Kings of Asia or Africa or Europe?
As far as the link… yawn… another attempt to link pedophilia to homosexuality. That has long been disproven.
Personally, I don’t see a link. However, they aren’t discussing a link, but the “morals” that allow it openly. The same ones that promote promiscuity.
And whether you agree with it or not, that is what you are up against — not Redneck Billy and the Ruffians. You are up against organized and intelligent people doing research. However biased you may claim it is, they’re getting people’s attention. All this screaming in the streets is going to do nothing but bring Billy out for a little bit of Friday night gay-bashing.
You have got to show people there is no link. They only way to do that is to provide evidence that openly gay societies are not trying to promote pedophilia. And right now, you are losing.
#68
“The charts below show how adults and adolescents (aged 13 and over) living with AIDS most likely became infected with HIV. Just over 75% of adults and adolescents living with AIDS are men.”
http://avert.org/media/content/graphs/usa-summary.jpg
#65 Poor Alfie, you try so hard, and you throw around some very impressive phrases. If only you knew what they really mean…
We argue it isn’t marriage in the historic meaning of the term.
So what? “Driving a car” isn’t “transportation” in the historic meaning of the term, but it doesn’t mean we shouldn’t drive cars because our forefathers didn’t.
Its as though you desire stool for your lunch…and insist it be put on the church menu…
Your eating doesn’t affect us…but don’t force us to call it “food”, or your activity, “a meal”, its not.
By this (faulty) logic, vegetarians could force meat eaters to stop eating meat… replace “stool” with “meat” in the above statement and there it is, your flawed logic in all its glory.
Vegetarians don’t eat meat, but they can’t insist the meat eaters stop eating meat because it’s against the vegetarian’s religion, or ethics, or principles, or whatever. Vegetarians are free to feel disgusted over what the carnivores eat, but they CAN’T STOP THEM FROM EATING MEAT.
So you’re happy with your heterosexual marriage (get it, you’re the vegetarian), and Bob and Steve are happy with their homosexual marriage. But you don’t have the right to tell them what kind of relationship they’re entitled to have, just because you find it disgusting. Capiche?
Thanks for helping me prove my point, Alfred. 🙂
Oh, and about this:
I’ve NEVER heard anyone argue gay marriage affects us…
Then why the f*ck are you so upset over it? Get a life, man. And tell you what… after gay marriage becomes law, as it will, eventually — feel free to proclaim as loud and as long as you want that they’re not really married, if that’ll make you feel better, you twit.
#69 You have got to show people there is no link. They only way to do that is to provide evidence that openly gay societies are not trying to promote pedophilia. And right now, you are losing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_proof
Actually, pal, you have to prove that “openly gay” societies are trying to promote pedophilia. I mean hard scientific evidence, not Creationist-style “evidence”. You can’t assume something is true (from your prejudice) and then challenge someone to prove it’s wrong. Doesn’t work that way. That’s the Argument From Ignorance, otherwise knows as a Negative Proof. Logical fallacy.
The people who believe that societies that accept homosexuality also promote pedophilia are the bigots who equate homosexuality with pedophilia, when they are clearly not equivalent.
Nice try, but your bigotry is showing.
#72, Nice try, but your bigotry is showing.
Whatever.
I’m already on record as stating I have no problem with it.
I am showing what you are up against. I’m already happily married so it isn’t any skin off of my teeth.
However, attacks seem to be what you are best at when backed into a corner. Why not try a lucid argument instead?
And FYI: Proving a negative is not what this is about. Changing public opinion is. The unwashed masses don’t know you can’t disprove a negative (did I get all my false positives right?).
#72 – http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=27431
Start your research engines…
#74 Right-wingers equate homosexuality with pedophilia! In other equally astonishing news, the sun has been reported to rise in the east.
#73 What we’re up against is people who are disgusted by homosexuality, or it’s against their religion, or they’re closet cases, and they’re trying to institutionalize their fear and hatred into our laws.
And you might want to rethink who’s backed into a corner when you read that polls consistently show that young people are in favor of gay marriage. So it’s just a matter of time. It will happen, and the Republic won’t fall, and years from now people will wonder what the fuss was all about. And people like Alfred will be left muttering darkly in their homes, looking like crazy people. 🙂
But we’ve beat this into the ground, and I’ll end with one final fact: Polls show that people who actually know a gay person are generally supportive of gay marriage.
#75 like I said. Start the research engines. This is an area that lacks much genuine scientific research…
#76–Paddy-O-Catholic==nice link there to World Net. Couldn’t the study be read as indicating that Catholicism is the greatest pedophilia threat? That was one of the themes in Lenard Cohen’s “Beautiful Losers.” Sexual Perversion–just one of the paths to salvation.
#73, What we’re up against is people who are disgusted by homosexuality, or it’s against their religion, or they’re closet cases, and they’re trying to institutionalize their fear and hatred into our laws.
You could be correct. Have any proof?
And you might want to rethink who’s backed into a corner
I’m not the one who started the mud-slinging in the middle of the discussion. Why should someone who isn’t feeling threatened lash out?
But we’ve beat this into the ground, and I’ll end with one final fact: Polls show that people who actually know a gay person are generally supportive of gay marriage.
Again, probably true, and I wouldn’t doubt it. Any proof, though?
This is all opinion. Until you start producing facts to back up your claims, it’s just wishful thinking. Seriously.
#78 You must be new to this debate. It’s been going on for years, and these are some well-established facts of the debate. A few minutes of googling will get you the information.
There are other reasons to get irate besides being backed in a corner. Being faced with ignorance and bigotry from people like Alfred, for example.
Is the elephant really gay? Just because he likes to hang out with only other males dosen’t mean he’s gay. It would have to be a sexual thing assuming he’s sexually mature in the first place. Get back to me when he actually starts humping (or gets humped) by other male elephants.
#79, Now you’re getting sassy again.
You claim polls and the like. I would like to see them, please.
Here is one I found “opinion polls on gay marriage”:
Over the last five years, there has not been any statistical increase in opinion. It has been even at 55-60% +-3% with that equally divided between marriage and civil union.
http://tinyurl.com/2q4uu
It’s not becoming more recognized. It’s become stagnant. And as long as it stays there, the religious conservatives will be happy.
#81 – That’s why in California (one of the most lib states) it has been repeatedly defeated when put to a vote…
Them are facts. Fido has never presented any of course.
68 Phydeau “So what’s your point in bringing up AIDS?”
AIDS was one example contrary to Mr. Fusion’s belief that as a civilization we would only do things that are beneficial:
If it is harmful to the existence of the human race, we don’t do it… If it is not harmful, we allow it
RBG
#84 OK, I get it, but there are lots of things we do to ourselves that aren’t beneficial… smoking, eating too many oreos, etc. And there are other STDs besides AIDS. It just seemed kind of coincidental we were talking about homosexuality and you mentioned AIDS.
#83 OK, now wipe all the spit off your screen, Alfie 🙂
#81 From the survey:
18-45 years old 41 23 32
45-64 29 32 35
65 & older 18 27 47
Marriage, Civil Union, and Nothing are the three columns. Notice a trend there? Approval goes up as age goes down. Like I said, the old folks have the hardest time accepting it. I have a 14 year old daughter in 9th grade. She has openly gay friends and sees nothing wrong with it. The children are our future, ya know. 🙂
dagnabbit, no formatting here… grrr
18-45 years old… 41 23 32
45-64 years old… 29 32 35
65+.. years old… 18 27 47
Now Alfie, don’t disappoint me… I expect a fire’n’brimstone sermon on exposing innocent children to those EEEEEVUL homosexuals… 🙂
89 Phydeau. You mean like how kids look to others as role models, that sort of thing?
RBG
There ya go, Alfie… good rant. 🙂 Everything in the bible is absolutely true. How do you know? The bible tells you so! 🙂
…and insist my church hire them in ministry…
Classic wingnut strawman… no one is telling you to hire homosexuals in your church.
…demand I call homosexual unions “an alternative life style”…
No one’s telling you to call it anything, Alfie, they’re just telling you to butt out of their business, which you just can’t seem to do.
…or my children accept them as teachers.
This sounds familiar… ah yes, your spiritual forefathers said the same things about black people…
…and it lists homosexuality with fornication, adultery, as one of those sins folks must repent from.
Jesus never talked about homosexuality. He did talk about adultery and divorce. You’d think these so-called Jesus followers would focus more on what Jesus talked about. But that would be a much harder task, trying to ban adultery and divorce — it would be harder on them, specifically, because those are sins they are tempted by. It’s much easier to cast stones out of their glass houses onto people who commit a sin that they themselves would never commit, makes them feel oh so morally superior.
Oh Lord, protect me from your followers! 🙂
#93 I know arguing with a fundie is usually a waste of time, but…
This isn’t about the Bible…its about MY freedom as an American, to practice my religion and freedom of speech…just as Americans have traditionally done.
If gays are allowed to marry, you will still have your freedom of speech. You can proclaim to the heavens how much you hate gay marriage. You will still have the freedom of religion. No one will come and padlock your church, or force you to hire homosexuals. ALL your freedoms will still be intact.
Sorry to break it to you, but the freedom to prevent gay people from getting married isn’t in the Constitution, last time I checked… 🙂
But you lie. It is about the bible, or rather, your particular interpretation of the bible. You have said so numerous times in this thread. But you know what, you bible-thumpers have a pretty unsavory history in this country. Your spiritual forefathers have used “the bible tells me so” in the following ways:
1. To deny freedom for black slaves
2. To deny women the right to vote
3. To deny blacks the right to vote
4. To deny black and white people the right to marry.
All those things were claimed to be against the bible… Blacks had the mark of Cain so they were doomed to slavery, women were supposed to be subservient to men, society will crumble if this is allowed, if black people are allowed to teach my children, blah blah blah. All kinds of noxious bullsh*t.
So you’re treading in some well-worn footsteps there, pal. Just another bigot in a long line of bigots. If you want a Christian Taliban, take your fellow bigots off to an uninhabited island somewhere and create your heaven on earth. I know the rest of us will be happy too after you’ve left.
Yeah, we’re going to win, and you’re going to lose. And the only question is, will some right-wing nutcase go off the deep end like Timothy McVeigh and try to blow something up in protest.
[Tongue in Cheek]
Re: Women voting — society will crumble if this is allowed
Is it any coincidence that since we let them vote things have been going down the shitter?
[/Tongue in Cheek]
#93–Alfie==”This isn’t about the Bible…its about MY freedom as an American, to practice my religion and freedom of speech…just as Americans have traditionally done.” //// Hah, Hah. Poor dimwit doesn’t think he is free when other people are allowed to disagree with him.
Alfie==say it plainly. How are your rights affected AT ALL by gays marrying?
We’ll wait.
#96 Good point bobbo… the Fundies are fundamentally (heh) undemocratic in the most important area of their lives, religion. In that arena, there’s a Big Enchilada, what he says, they do, end of story. I can’t help but think that they bring that mindset to the political arena. I’d bet that most fundies would be happy with a Christian Theocracy in the U.S. — this “of the people, by the people, for the people” stuff just distresses them. They aren’t used to thinking for themselves: God said it, they believe it, that settles it.
So they’re talking about democracy but they’re thinking about Theocracy. So when Alfie says gay marriage violates his rights, it violates his wishful thinking of having a Christian Theocracy in which his theology is imposed on everyone else in the country. They just don’t get this whole freedom thing. In their world, their “freedom” is to either do exactly what God tells them to do, or burn in hell for all eternity. Not much freedom there. So why should we expect them to understand freedom in politics if they can’t understand it in religion? I’m sure it’s very distressing to them.
They’re very loud in saying that they don’t separate their politics from their religion, so most of them are probably seeking a God-type figure as their political leader. Thus the phenomenon of them worshiping their political leaders, like they worshiped Bush and Reagan before him.
#97–Phydeau==nicely said. Just a coinkydink you happen to be agreeing with me.
“Freedom is not allowing other people to agree with you, its understanding you are not in a free society unless other people are disagreeing with you.”
Somebody famous said something about like that, I only paraphrase.
If they are gay, let them be, they have a right to love another of the same gender, just as humans do.