The government giveth, the government taketh away.
Taxcashblog.com
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Denouncing a “squandering of the people’s money,” lawmakers voted decisively Thursday to impose a 90 percent tax on millions of dollars in employee bonuses paid by troubled insurance giant AIG and other bailed-out companies.
The House vote was 328-93. Similar legislation has been introduced in the Senate and President Barack Obama quickly signaled general support for the concept.
Republicans took Democrats to task for rushing to tax AIG bonuses worth an estimated $165 million after the majority party stripped from last month’s economic stimulus bill a provision that could have banned such payouts.
AIG has received $182.5 billion in federal bailout money and is now 80 percent government-owned.
Obama administration special envoy Richard Holbooke was on AIG’s board of directors in early 2008, when the insurance company committed to the bonuses, and during the previous years of aggressive investment strategies that brought the firm to brink of collapse. White House spokesman Tommy Vietor said Thursday: “Mr. Holbrooke had nothing to do with and knew nothing about the bonuses.”
Will this make things better, or is it just a “look good now” tactic for Congress and the White House?
Umm,
Arnt these considered part of wages and are TAXED already??
I would love $100k TAX FREE, that would be like $150,000 BEFORE tax.
Only 90%? Buncha wimps…
Democrats feigning outrage over something they asked for and approved of in the first place.
Dodd put a section in to protect the bonuses and the Obomba administration knew about it and now every Democrat is outraged at the bonuses. $165 million in bonuses is going to seem like chump change with all the attorney fees from lawsuits over this.
What a bunch of lying bastards and a president who was outraged by McCain saying the fundamentals of the economy being sound and 8 weeks into the Obombanation Obomba says the same thing after a months of saying crisis, crisis, crisis, catastrophe, crisis every ten minutes.
Going on TV with Jay Leno. What a self centered fucktard looking for applause.
Like usual, they are going after the wrong weasels.
Those people managed to sign retention contracts with great terms that their employer signed. If said employer were actually, um, smart, they would have had a clause restricting the bonuses if the company were to tank.
I’m all for people negotiating for what they are worth, that’s how I do business. However, EVERYONE has to have clauses in their contracts explaining what happens in various situations, and what is expected for the money. The fact that the AIG mucks didn’t put in those types of clauses explains why AIG went under far more than anything else.
Oh well, another distraction from the real problems.
That’s right, let’s act like an angry mob and pass a law that is unconstitutional just because we don’t like something (which in this case the Congress and the Executive branch enabled). Shame on the “House of Rep” for such a blatant abuse of their powers.
Fortunately it is doubtful the Senate will be able to muster the votes to continue this foolishness, otherwise President Obama will find himself with the dilemma of either casting his first veto against a popular “mob rule” bill (very early in his administration) or having one of his first laws thrown out by the courts as being unconstitutional. A no-win situation for the President which his opponents could not have planned better if they had tried.
For those who are wondering where the Constitutional problem is with this bill, you should check Article 1 Section 9 (limits on the Congress) which says: “No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed”, which the courts over the years have interpreted as meaning that Congress can not pass a bill which has a direct negative effect on a person or a group of people such as a fine or a term of imprisonment (without a trial), nor can it enact a law with punishes actions which took place before the law was passed. A tax of 90% on a small group of people will most likely be viewed by the courts more as a punitive action than a broad tax, subjecting it to the limitation of section of Constitution, in addition to the fact that the law was passed “ex post facto” to the event that it is dealing with.
Now if only our Representatives can stop grandstanding in front of the TV’s and get back to work on real legislation which can help get us out of this mess, or at least insure we don’t do the same stupid things again, we might actually have a chance at getting out of this situation sooner than later. So far though I am not very hopeful.
Did I hear this right?
Last week when the bonuses were announced, the republicans said the democrats are not doing this bailout right.
This week when the democrats seek to tax those bonuses the republicans are still not happy.
This ideological BS is very old now.
Cursor_
Political two-step grandstanding, nothing more. Did you expect a creative, fair and constitutional response from this congress?
“Change we can believe in”. “Yes we can”. We reap what we vote for. Didn’t anyone see the CNN headline, “Blame Me means Move On.” A not so subtle hint from the mainstream press telling you to “Get over it”.
I would like to remind these smiling people on camera of a few words written awhile ago.
“When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.”
Continuing …
“That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.”
Tea Party time.
What do you expect from an elected body of lawyers? Not one of them knows how to make money. Put a bunch of engineers in charge and you’ll see thing get done. Unfortunately, that’ll never happen. Engineers are too smart to get involved in that cesspool.
For the first time in awhile I’m in agreement with the republicans on this one. Its absolutely wrong for the government to be able to go back after the fact and say “oh, we don’t like how you spent that money, we’re going to take it away from the people who received it.”
What’s to stop the government from saying, “oh, we don’t like your political positions” or “we don’t think you work hard enough” and then levy additional taxes on their political enemies?
I can’t wait till the boomer generation dies off. You’ve been running this country into the ground.
I see the courts ruling against this, as they should. Then everyone will be happy. AIG peeps will get to keep their bonuses and congress can shrug their shoulders and blame the courts.
The “squandering of the peoples’ money” was when the Government decided to steal our taxes and give them to the terminally incompetent. This blather about bonuses is purely a diversionary tactic.
Kick the Congress out. All of the slimy, vile, thieving bastards.
For politicians to assume they have the power to target individuals with punitive taxation is a clear signal that the Obamanation is rapidly headed into the tyrants hall of fame.
We may agree the AIG bonuses are horrific given the situation, but if we allow the government to satisfy this indulgence of targeting citizens then rest assured they will eventually get around to you.
When will we ever learn that too much is never enough for this bunch in Washington? If anyone needs targeting it’s the politicians that induced this mess in the first place.
It is not AIG it is the 535 congress pukes.
They gonna publish names in the public record like a telethon?
Mr James Doda and family 75K
Ms B. Ranger 150K
Mr R. Jones 259.3K
Great that Obama administration is taking action directly at those that squander taxpayer dollars.
This is the SECOND time in memory that the White House has become involved in such non-governmental dealings.
The First time was when Bush called a session of Congress to get involved in the Terri Schiavo case.
All of the elected asshats need to return the cash from AIG they have received also. And we need to have the amounts and the detail of possible legislation that those moneys affected.
“Republicans took Democrats to task” – and then voted for it. Just as they voted against amendments offered to prevent the bonuses in the first place.
Hypocrites. Bankrupt ideologues.
Congress well knows this. This is nothing but a dog and pony show for the voters. Many took big campaign contributions from AIG. And remember they did strip out the clause in the bailout that would have restricted bonuses. Anyone who thinks there is real rage in Washington over this is really naive.
When I first heard about the 90% tax I thought it was a GREAT idea! After consideration, though, it probably will get thrown out even if it passes.
It would have had a better chance of passing if the tax code were amended to tax bonuses paid by any corporation that receives bailout money at 90%. That would broaden the net and be more of a reasoned response than a grandstanding move as mentioned above.
Now if there was a clause that exempted bonuses negotiated before the bailout it might have a chance. That wouldn’t be as popular publicly, though. People are pissed about the AIG bonuses specifically and chances are a bill like that would be viewed as a “slap on the wrist”. They don’t want to think about how much of the billions of taxpayer dollars that went to bail out these corporations is ending up paying for the luxurious lifestyle of the people who came so close to sinking the businesses in the first place. One thing people tend to ignore is not all of those bonuses are going to executives. A lot of the rank and file that had no part in the failure of the company count on their bonuses and this bill will hurt them if by some off chance it does make it through.
I have to say, this is not my favorite piece of legislation ever…
Rob from the Rich
This is why the liberal left support Obama:
http://bit.ly/15teP
First, I think it will pass legal muster. The companies have the option of returning the TARP and bailout money to the government or allowing the executives that ruined the company to pay for unwarranted bonuses.
Second, I am not in favor of doing this after the fact. This condition should have been in the first bailout as a condition.
Third, I don’t understand how a company losing money can reward its people with bonuses. That defies all logic that failure is rewarded.
Fourth, although I didn’t hear the direct question, Liddy apparently alluded to the fact that these employees were brought in after the fact to straightend out the mess on a defined length contract. They were not the original employees that created the mess in the first place as those people were all fired.
Maybe this is something that changes the thinking on the matter.
#20 – Mr. Fusion,
Second, I am not in favor of doing this after the fact. This condition should have been in the first bailout as a condition.
I somewhat agree. However, there were no conditions on the first bailout. We can only try to patch our mistakes now.
Third, I don’t understand how a company losing money can reward its people with bonuses. That defies all logic that failure is rewarded.
I couldn’t agree more. And, ditto for dividends if anyone were to try to pay them out of bailout bucks.
Fourth, although I didn’t hear the direct question, Liddy apparently alluded to the fact that these employees were brought in after the fact to straightend out the mess on a defined length contract. They were not the original employees that created the mess in the first place as those people were all fired.
Maybe this is something that changes the thinking on the matter.
That would change thinking significantly. However, I would then have to ask why a new contract post bailout would be defined as having a mandatory bonus for the work rather than a simple salary. Something’s suspicious about that.
# 8 Petrov said, in part:
“What do you expect from an elected body of lawyers? Not one of them knows how to make money. Put a bunch of engineers in charge and you’ll see thing get done.” […]
May I remind you that the last two “engineers in charge” were Herbert Hoover and Jimmy Carter? Not the best examples in terms of getting things done…
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# 19 jbenson2 said, in part:
“Rob from the Rich”
Well, as Willie Sutton supposedly said, “That’s where all the money is!”
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I must say, I don’t understand the gratuitous reference to Holbrooke, the Obama administration’s special representative to Afghanistan and Pakistan. He was on AIG’s board from ’01 to July ’08, four months before the election and six months before the inauguration, and has little to nothing to do with his task for the administration. Even in the full article (much longer than this excerpt), it’s just shoehorned into one paragraph, with no connection to the rest of the story. AP has been going downhill for at least the last 15 or 20 years. Now apparently they’re getting weird too.
Assuming this bill ends up being signed into law, it needs to be challenged simply because Congress cannot be allowed to pass this sort of targeted, punitive taxation nonsense. Regardless if you agree with the intended goal.
And Dodd is getting even more ridiculous with each passing day. While we’ve finally gotten him to admit that he outright lied about his inserting the amendment to preserve these prior contracts (Obama made me do it!), he’s now claiming that he had no idea that there actually were any. This is one clown that definitely needs to find himself without a job, come the next election.
ex post facto
An ex post facto law (from the Latin for “after the fact”) or retroactive law, is a law that retroactively changes the legal consequences of acts committed or the legal status of facts and relationships that existed prior to the enactment of the law.
An ex post facto law (from the Latin for “after the fact”) or retroactive law, is a law that retroactively changes the legal consequences of acts committed or the legal status of facts and relationships that existed prior to the enactment of the law.
In the United States, the federal government is prohibited from passing ex post facto laws by Article I, section 9 of the U.S. Constitution and the states are prohibited from the same by clause 1 of section 10.
FYI
Previous post.
What
What
Hmmm, Article 1, Section 9: “No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed.”
# 22 Uncle Patso said, “May I remind you that the last two “engineers in charge” were Herbert Hoover and Jimmy Carter? ”
Why did you fail to mention that Eisenhower was an engineer?
Does anyone really think that any of the dipshits in Congress will adhere to or even care what the US Constitution says, really.
I don’t really care which side you are on at some point you people have got to be getting pissed off. At least when Bush fucked me he at least used the Vaseline of the war on terror. Now all we have is a Congress and President that are totally out of control and not even using any kind of lubricant.
# 29 Mr Diesel said, “Does anyone really think that any of the dipshits in Congress will adhere to or even care what the US Constitution says, really.”
No, but I’m sure O’mama, being a Harvard Law dude will NEVER sign a bill into law that is unconstitutional. I mean that would intentionally be violating his oath of office and be treason, which is currently punishable by death…
Pondering… looking from the outside in…
I see 300 million chickens with their heads chopped off. It’s not funny watching a whole country in chaos. The bitching between Republicans and Democrats is only making things worse. You guys are in shit up to your eyeballs and you need to stop the bickering and get behind the man you put in charge. You’ve been raped by corporate America. Why? because you are so focused on “ideals” that your pockets have been picked clean. Easy pickins. You have been had, chumps. It amazes me that anyone would allow bonuses to the rapists, whose shit you are swimming in right now. CEO’s don’t care a flying fuck about you… Republican OR Democratic. They had a major chance of showing some empathy and they pissed on it. You should be kissing Obama’s feet for finally having the guts to do something about it.
Here in Canada isn’t as bad, only because we are smaller and the scale of stupidity that goes with it. Apathy is our thing. 36 million Canadian chickens with their heads cut off don’t run around in chaos. They lay on the ground and kick their feet because they were laying down in the first place. We have Nortel execs asking for bonuses now. They should be fired just for asking. Corporate directors are nothing more than very common business experts with a giant dollop bullshits. And yes, the broad paintbrush seems to cover nicely with only minor imperfections.