The percentage of people who call themselves in some way Christian has dropped more than 11% in a generation. The faithful have scattered out of their traditional bases: The Bible Belt is less Baptist. The Rust Belt is less Catholic. And everywhere, more people are exploring spiritual frontiers — or falling off the faith map completely.
These dramatic shifts in just 18 years are detailed in the new American Religious Identification Survey (ARIS), to be released today. It finds that, despite growth and immigration that has added nearly 50 million adults to the U.S. population, almost all religious denominations have lost ground since the first ARIS survey in 1990.
“More than ever before, people are just making up their own stories of who they are. They say, ‘I’m everything. I’m nothing. I believe in myself,’ ” says Barry Kosmin, survey co-author.
Among the key findings in the 2008 survey:
• So many Americans claim no religion at all (15%, up from 8% in 1990), that this category now outranks every other major U.S. religious group except Catholics and Baptists. In a nation that has long been mostly Christian, “the challenge to Christianity … does not come from other religions but from a rejection of all forms of organized religion,” the report concludes.
[…]
Meabh Fitzpatrick, 49, of Rutland, Vt., says she is upfront about becoming an atheist 10 years ago because “it’s important for us to be counted. I’m a taxpayer and a law-abiding citizen and an ethical person, and I don’t think people assume this about atheists.”
#6, et al.
Religion brings stability and morality?
Please.
The Western world was never more corrupt and immoral than when religion was at its most powerful — i.e., the middle ages. The depravity, dishonesty, theft, murder, and corruption at all levels of society was *never* greater than when the Church had its greatest influence.
#33 freddybobs68k
>>Surely its possible to have a ‘true’ relationship with God, without church, the bible, and christianity.
I imagine most everyone begins at that point, I know I did. But after much thought and realization that eternity is a long time to chew on being wrong I decided to give this some serious thought. I think I made the right decision.
@ 38
I wouldn’t be saying much at all if I was unconscious…
Still I like your skit on quantum physics. But I don’t think it holds much water. As its an argument of ‘it seems strange’ == God. Or ‘we don’t understand it’ == God. Not really great arguments when you look at it through the lens of history.
If that was trolling, it was at least intellectual trolling. Touche.
praise the the lord. -it’s about time.
now all we need to do is fire every
scientist in the peer review system and
hire ones that dont have a government nipple
their arse and we’ll back on the road to the next star system.. 😀
-s
-now,, if the conservatives can get a clue
and rally without sticking their necks out for the zealots…maybe they could trick everyone into voting out the madmen that just took office in the midterms is there is at least *some* balance of power in the houses.
power vacuums suck. -well, except for maybe
the scalar type. -but i digress.
@ 39
Hey, well if that works for you great. Pretty much all people think their current point of view is completely right. Right up to the point they change their mind. And that of course includes me too.
Still I find it somewhat of an offensive idea that it is impossible to have a relationship with God – say if you grew up isolated on an island without a church or a bible. Doesn’t say much for Gods inclusiveness or omnipotence. Still perhaps that’s just me.
@ # 43 Alfred1
Yeah those UFOs are a real pain in the arse. Blocking my drive in the morning, flying over the house lights blazing, levitating cows and making strange plinky noises all night long.
If I had only realized they were the chariots of satan, I’d popped into the local church to sort them out.
# 36 Thomas said, “Instead, they believe that a large agency be in charge of “encouraging” people to “do the right thing” and give up their property. ”
Actually, not. Every country that has embraced communism has confiscated property. Nice revisionism though. You’re a credit to Lenin.
#42 freddybobs68k
>>Still I find it somewhat of an offensive idea that it is impossible to have a relationship with God – say if you grew up isolated on an island without a church or a bible. Doesn’t say much for Gods inclusiveness or omnipotence.
Yep, you can go a whole lifetime and never get all the answers. On the bright side, you don’t have the same problem as the uninformed island dweller.
Freedom of choice is a wonderful thing no matter where you find it.
Why does god punish those who don’t believe?
#43, you are a very scary and dangerous individual. You claim to be very religious, but have revealed yourself to condone vengeance and murder in the name of God. (see your views on capital punishment).
It is a obvious to anyone but the most obstinate and disingenuous, that the story of God and Jesus was conjured by man from superstition and ignorance at least 5000 years ago.
Re: #24, Alfredi, “Using scripture to prove God is NOT circular…it’s a collection of historical books written over a 1,500 time span, by about 40 different people, in three different languages, on different continents…therefore its testimony God is, is empirical, sound and not circular.
That would make Harry Potter a God, and the series our bible. After all 40 translators wouldn’t translate fiction….
“Jacques Vallee, a non Christian scientist, deduced UFOs are non human intelligences that appear in human culture as demons (gobblins…etc)”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_Vallee
Nowhere is it mentioned that he believes this.
#24
> “humanitarianism” (=liberal
> policies of redistributing wealth)
> is implied…
ooooh, so, conservatives are not humanitarian? Jesus and his followers were not humanitarian? When did “humanitarian” equate to “liberal”? I thought that a humanitarian was someone that tried to help people. When did it entail wealth redistribution?
RE: Using scripture to prove the existence of God
My example was exactly analogous you simply missed the point. Even if “the” scriptures entails a million books written on every land mass on the planet, the circular logic is the same. Using books written by a superstitious people about a deity as anecdotal evidence of a supreme being is circular logic. It is the equivalent of saying that if enough people blog about false statement that it must be true. The *volume* of books or the variety of locations in which the books were written makes no difference. There are plenty of books on fairies, ghosts, and goblins. That does not mean they exist.
Not having a religious affiliation does NOT have anything to do with believing in god. I believe in god, but I don’t believe in religion.
Paddy-o: Judging communism by looking at governments that claim(ed) to be communist doesn’t seem very realistic to me. Seems to me that most “communist” governments were really tyrannical dictatorships. I don’t know if communism is really workable for humans, but I don’t think anyone has seriously tried it (except maybe the early Christians, before Christianity became the state religion of the Romans).
#46
Did you forget to take your medication this morning? In no way do I endorse communism as a viable system. However, no system gets put into place by overtly stating, “We the state are going to steal from you.” Yes, every country that embraced communism has confiscated property. However, they did it under the guise of patriotism to your fellow comrade. You’re a credit to…well, not much of anything at this point.
Why are unbelievers lost for all eternity for a lifetime or just the last five minutes of life spent “not accepting” god?
Why is this subservience so important?
How can god impose “any” denial and still be thought of as merciful or loving and not simply a tyrant?
# 55 billtahoe said, “Paddy-o: Judging communism by looking at governments that claim(ed) to be communist doesn’t seem very realistic to me.”
Judging groups by deeds and not words would seem to me, the only realistic way to do go. Unless, you hold someones words as proof of their intentions OVER their actions…
#55
> I don’t know if communism
> is really workable for
> humans, but I don’t think
> anyone has seriously tried it
Not true. It has actually been tried many times and failed each time. The most recent examples are in the 1960’s. In most communes the same root problem would eventually arise. People that worked hard and produced more became unwilling to give up the fruits of their labor for the “betterment of the community”. Eventually, the community would nominate folks that would ensure a fair distribution which translates into “take from hard working person A and give it to less productive person B”.
If you were a critical thinker, you would know this.
To think one first needs a clear and open mind.
Alfredi said, You have revealed your humanitarism is only reserved for the scum of society, while decent folk must live in fear of murderers being released, and murdering again.
While you promote indiscriminate torture and murder in the name of God, I will protect those who are wrongly convicted. The victims of crime will be better served by psychological and monetary support rather than through the vengeance of a lunatic Christian.
Religion would probrably be a great thing, if it weren’t made by man. Everything man made has an expiration date, after that it start’s to smell bad. Still, it’s a good idea to have values anyways. Mostly because the mind is clever and the heart is not. The mind can justify things the heart will not abide. Without values chaos ensues. I’m not saying that values necessarily have to come from a religion, but those are the guys that have spent the most time working on values. You can search for your own if you like. But if you think logic and reason are the only ‘trustworthy’ guides in life, you’re gonna find the limits. For example, if your neighbour has something you desire desperately, why not kill him and take it. Sounds logical and reasonable. He’s old, you could suffocate him in his sleep and take it. Why not? Or how bout that family down the street, Mom hasn’t given Dad any trim in years, so why shouldn’t he rape his 15 year old daughter. Just like real life we find more and more people without a conscious, doing just about anything they can reasonably justify. Take Bernie Madoff for example, I’ll bet anything he’s an atheist.
#30 – Alfred1 –
#26 Origin of the Species has a chapter on the eye…it befuddled Darwin how such a complex organ could evolve…
That should have caused Darwin to reconsider his theory…
It certainly cause me to reconsider my atheism.
An eye is complex to have evolved via survial of the fittest…each individual part, if mission, renders the eye useless=not beneficial to survival…
Therefore the parts of the eye could not evolved over generations…the thousand or so parts must then have “come to be” in one generation…that is impossible according to the underlying philosophy of evolution.
…
You’re proposing creationism? There was a great show on PBS that covered the trial of teaching Intelligent Design in the classroom, centered in Dover, PA:
Wikipedia reference:
http://tinyurl.com/dl3k4
PBS reference:
http://tinyurl.com/dndupc
You should watch it, it would answer some of your questions on how complex organs can form by evolutionary processes.
By the way, Intelligent Design lost in that trial. The method used by the group, can’t remember their name, who tried to get ID into the school curriculum was pretty devious. It was not ethical or moral. These are Christians we are talking about here.
# 63 Carcarius said, “An eye is complex to have evolved via survial of the fittest…each individual part, if mission, renders the eye useless=not beneficial to survival…
Therefore the parts of the eye could not evolved over generations…the thousand or so parts must then have “come to be””
the same goes for wings. Either they popped into existence in one shot, complete and aerodynamically functional or, they wouldn’t exist at all.
Intellegent design, ha! They ought to call it ignorant observer. Are we supposed to agree with a theory, whose incomplete conclusions are based on other incomplete conclusions. Paleontology is still pretty green as a science to serve as the basis for justification of evolution or intelligent design. I think/believe the universe is perfect, man’s perception of the universe is flawed and thanks to this we can learn and grow in a favorable context.
#14: “That trend will be reversed…by the antichrist”
We already got rid of Dubya.
Looked for or unlooked for, God will be there.
# 68 amodedoma said, “Are we supposed to agree with a theory, whose incomplete conclusions are based on other incomplete conclusions.”
Exactly, how people champion evolution like it is proven is truly bizarre.
This can only be good news.
Lordy, I know You’re having a hard time these days. Aren’t we all. But I just wished to let You know You are still number one on my list. Maybe.
After the Republicans did such a consistent job of evoking your will, your need to bless us as the chosen ones, the True Power behind the Bush administration and the Poster Boy on the banner of imposed freedom, truth and light around the globe that we have been following, it is no wonder that You are taking a hit in the street cred department.
The unfaithful and infidels have started looking to other areas of the cosmos for answers. Places with the vile sign of the beast within them. Places like mathematics (which contains the integer 666 among an infinity of others), science (which seeks proofs over faith and belief of things people tell you), and logic (as if it meant something, then expanded one’s understanding).
Humanity. You gotta love it. No, I’m serious. It’s Your job. You gotta love it.