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#62, Lyin’ Mike,
First, Obama didn’t blame alternative energy for the mess.
Second, those billions of dollars that went to the oil companies and foreign oil Kingdoms helped a lot of people lose their jobs. Spending those dollars here will help, not hurt, the US.
# 64 Mr. Fusion said, “Second, those billions of dollars that went to the oil companies”
The money is still going to go to the oil companies, so it doesn’t make any difference.
All that has changed is that the gov is going to take from our pocketbooks and give to someone else after taking a hefty “handling fee”. We the people, still have to buy gas…
No net positive effect on the economy.
#61
Yes but you can only raise taxes that way when federal spending as a % of GDP is on the way down. That’s not the situation we are in now.
http://www.investors.com/images/editimg/issues022509.gif
The Clinton era is not comparable and was a golden era because 1) The threat of great power war was non-existent (which lowered risk for foreign direct investment around the globe), 2) Tech introduced massive gains in US worker productivity. It was the one-two punch of true globalization and worker productivity that created “irrational exuberance” for the US economy. Sadly Maddow is not a particularly good thinker. Why people listen to her is beyond me.
We now have a balance sheet recession, but unlike Japan we do not have a strong global market that we can sell into, and write down our balance sheets. You need to find a way to get balance sheets back in order, so everyone can write down debt, in a way that will not destroy global markets. There’s nothing in the stimulus that addresses any of the problems that we now face. It’s like calling the fire department while your house is burning and having them say “We’re on our way now, and will pick you up to go golfing.”
“There is no pork in this bill” – Obomba (lying again)
Let’s see where all his “no Pork” bill sent its money to…..
$185,000 for coral reef research and preservation in Maui County, Hawaii
$55,000 in meteorological equipment for Pierce College in Woodland Hills, Calif.
$9.9 million for science enhancement at historically black colleges in South Carolina.
In addition to the basic operations of government, the new budget includes 775 pages of earmarks, funding programs that include local museums, colleges and infrastructure projects.
Among the earmarked projects in the bill are $764,000 for the Lake George Watershed Protection Initiative in New York, requested by Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand, New York
Democrat;
$9.9 million for South Carolina’s historically black colleges and universities, requested by House Majority Whip James E. Clyburn, South Carolina Democrat;
$1.1 million requested by Senate Republican Conference Chairman Lamar Alexander and Sen. Bob Corker, both of Tennessee, for water treatment plant improvements in Tennessee’s Unicoi County, as well as $300,000 for a sewer extension project in another county.
Examples of Earmarks in the Omnibus
$713,625 Woody Biomass at SUNY-ESF. Walsh and Schumer sponsors
$951,500 Sustainable Las Vegas. Berkeley and Reid sponsors.
$24,000 A+ for Abstinence. Specter is sponsor.
$300,000 Montana World Trade Center. Rehberg sponsor.
$950,000 Myrtle Beach International Trade and Convention Center. Graham sponsor.
$200,000 Oil Region Alliance. Peterson sponsor.
$190,000 Buffalo Bill Historical Center, Cody, WY for digitizing and editing the Cody collection. Barbara Cubin is the sponsor
$143,000 Las Vegas Natural History Museum, Las Vegas, NV, to expand natural history education programs. Sponsored by Harry Reid
$238,000 for the Polynesian Voyaging Society, Honolulu, HI, for educational programs. Sen. Daniel Inouye is the sponsor.
$381,000 for Jazz at Lincoln Center, New York, NY for music education programs. Jerrold Nadler is the sponsor.
Rep. Jerry Lewis of California, the top Republican on the House Appropriations Committee, would spend $3.8 million on a Needles, Calif., highway.
Sen. Thad Cochran of Mississippi, the top Republican on Senate Appropriations, backs earmarks including a $950,000 nature education center in Moss Point, Miss. He defends earmarks.
#67 Hey! That is stuff that if not funded would hasten the collapse of the economy…
#67, Diesel,
Most of those I would not consider “pork”.
To me, “pork” is building a $40 million road that goes nowhere but was built after they canceled the accompanying bridge that was to go nowhere.
To me, “pork” is granting huge multi million dollar no-bid contracts without oversight, complaint, or completion.
To me, “pork” is building monuments to oneself. Those that want a “World Trade Center” in Montana or a “Shrimp Museum” in Beloxi Mississippi would count as “pork”.
http://www.stimuluswatch.org
Damn…. didn’t think I needed to use TinyURL for that URL.
http://tinyurl.com/d5zzj3
A response to Mr. Diesel (#67):
“Let’s see where all his “no Pork” bill sent its money to…..”
Yes! Let us.
“$185,000 for coral reef research and preservation in Maui County, Hawaii”
-Will employ researchers and scientists, which will in turn need to buy gas, pay for transportation, housing, food, infrastructure.
-pay for scientific equipment that needs to be manufactured (hopefully, they’ll buy American)
“$55,000 in meteorological equipment for Pierce College in Woodland Hills, Calif.”
-Meteorological equipment that needs to be manufactured, transported, installed, and maintained. You need people employed to do all of that.
“$9.9 million for science enhancement at historically black colleges in South Carolina.”
-I assume this means building research laboratories, funding studies, etc. This employs people to build the labs, buildings, equipment. then there’s the equipment that needs to be manufactured, bought, shipped. Then there’s the collateral jobs – infrastructure, food, housing – that come with supporting other people.
All that seems like growth to me. I could be wrong.
“the new budget includes 775 pages of earmarks, funding programs that include local museums, colleges and infrastructure projects.”
-All of which employ people, support people, and local businesses that support the museums, colleges, and generic ‘infrastructure projects’. Not to mention the collateral jobs I keep harping on about.
“$764,000 for the Lake George Watershed Protection Initiative in New York, requested by Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand, New York
Democrat;”
-I have no idea what this is, but it does sound like a pet project. I’ll concede it’s likelier than not to be pork.
“$9.9 million for South Carolina’s historically black colleges and universities, requested by House Majority Whip James E. Clyburn, South Carolina Democrat;”
Didn’t we just talk about this?
“$1.1 million requested by Senate Republican Conference Chairman Lamar Alexander and Sen. Bob Corker, both of Tennessee, for water treatment plant improvements in Tennessee’s Unicoi County, as well as $300,000 for a sewer extension project in another county.”
-All of which will require labor, and further maintenance, creating new jobs.
-Those jobs mean other collateral jobs that support those jobs. Got a speeding ticket driving home from your new work fixing the sewage systems? Well you just fulfilled the duties of a police officer, clerk, and possibly a lawyer and a judge too.
Then he goes on to list a bunch of construction and education projects which, again, require labor jobs or teaching jobs to actually complete as well as the collateral jobs that support those laborers. (You think sandwich carts just appear out of nowhere and are staffed by robots?)
Pork are useless pet projects that don’t lead anywhere and don’t produce anything. Supporting education, infrastructure, sewage systems… all of this is necessary, and beneficial to a community that is currently hemorrhaging thousands of jobs per month.
The wetlands thing… yeah that sounds like a pet project. Might need to hire a couple park rangers for that, but I don’t see it as stimulating. But I would hardly call the rest of your examples “pork.”
#72 Taking $ from taxpayers, shaving some off the top for gov’t expenses & then paying people dig holes and refill them, no matter the buying of shovels and gas to get to the site, do nothing to improve the economy.
#39
> What good does it do to invade
> and occupy a country for the “justice”
> involved if the invading country
> goes bankrupt doing it?
You mean like France helping us during the Revolution and subsequently going bankrupt? It apparently did France quite a bit of good in the long run.
#61
Clearly you are not claiming that the rich did better *because* of higher taxes during the Clinton administration. They rich did better during that period because the economy boomed (thank you Internet). Higher taxes for the rich probably won’t hurt the current economy any more than it already has but do not expect it to help either.
Regarding Obama’s speech, I liked what he had to say but am reserving judgment until I see the actual implementation of those solutions. On most of the general topics, both sides agree that something needs to be done. It is the actual implementation on which they disagree.
Bullshit people. I’m tired of both sides spending money that isn’t theirs for pet projects all over the country. I hope to live long enough to see the day when the uprising happens.
Sadly I don’t think that day will ever come because there are just too many stupid people that think Congress can spend all our money on every little thing.
#73 Paddy –
Then how *do* you grow an economy if not by creating jobs that create other jobs needed to maintain those jobs?
#76 Jobs are created by the private sector and involve people WILLING spending money on products. NOT by the gov’t robbing people to pay people to dig holes and refill them. FDR tried it for 8 years and it all came to nothing.
Fix our fiat currency economy and and the corrupt bankers (financiers) so they aren’t sucking up $ as parasites and the private sector does the rest.
Hello, we’re the federal government and we’re here to take your money and then help you recover with multiple, inefficent, poorly executed programs.
what an f’n joke. -who had the button to pelosi’s chair?
i think the best part was near the end when Biden started giveing Pelosi (who looked like she took a few tabs of PermaGrin) dirty looks because she would stay the F in her chair..
i counted 26 standing ovations *in the last 20min or so alone..(starting from about
9:35-40pm)
-just about nullifies the significance the standing “O” for life..throw it in the garbage with the noble prize..means nothing now.
as for the Messiah..someone needs to tell him the campaign [mode] is over..he said NOTHING, and done NOTHING to warrant such praise.
interesting note: notice how “small” he looked
on the tv screen? -this definitely was not a hollywood-oprah-cabal production number like most all his previous “appearances” -or was it?
this guy will amount to nothing more than one big long, highly produced, subliminal “government is cool” [and knows best] commercial.
pity the brainwashed masses that wake up only after they notice it’s fools gold starting to flake off their gilded lead cages.
-s
If you want the economy to grow repeal Sarbanes-Oxley!!
Pelosi is a druggie. During one of bush’s speeches she was constantly licking her lips and smacking like she had cotton mouth. I don’t know what she was on last night but I hope her f’ing legs are good and sore today! What a clown! She was just embarrassing.
What about the beginning, do these idiots think they are coming into a football stadium? Goons!
No real problems with his speech, same ol’ shit mostly. Blah-de-blah-de-blah!
All these congressmen and senators having him sign their programs, childish and moronic. How many are on e-bay by now?
Hi! I’m Mr. Jindal and welcome to my neighborhood! I’m going to change sweaters and read you a story about how we f’ed up the country, make you think we are going to change but really aren’t and screw you in the a-hole again! Won’t YOU be my neighbor?
#77, Cow-Paddy, Ignorant Shit Talking Sociopath, Retired Mall Rent-A-Cop, Pretend Constitutional Scholar, Fake California Labor Law Expert, Pseudo Military Historian, Phony Climate Scientist, and Real Troll Extraordinare,
Jobs are created by the private sector and involve people WILLING spending money on products. NOT by the gov’t robbing people to pay people to dig holes and refill them. FDR tried it for 8 years and it all came to nothing.
It seems you aren’t much of an economist. Where is it written that ONLY the private sector can create jobs? I guess that all those policemen, teachers, military, food inspectors, IRS agents and whomever else are really unemployed.
Where are these holes FDR paid people to dig? Oopps, I missed that episode of Rush.
People in this country have become so addicted to radical talk radio (both from the left and the right) that they are unable to think for themselves anymore, and will simply vomit the talking points they heard from whomever they listen to.
There is no civilized debate anymore, there is nothing more than the repeated screamings of talking points over and over, with nobody ever interested in possibly changing their mind or opinion for fear of being ‘wrong’ or ‘weak’ in their original stances. It’s near impossible to engage someone with an opposing viewpoint on nearly anything nowadays (sports, politics, religion) without one side or the other devolving into a bubbling mass of shit.
It’s unfortunate that things have turned out this way, but when you have people on talk radio so profanely ripping one side or the other, and essentially telling their listeners that if they think differently, they’re somehow bad people, then you end up where we are today.
Too bad.
This really seems to have happened in the last decade, and especially seems to have fostered in the right wing (though lefties are just as guilty). Folks like Rush and O’Reilly are particularly nasty and confrontational with those who don’t share their viewpoints, and got drunk with power with 8 years of unfettered Republican leadership.
Now, the tables have turned, and these same folks are now slamming the Pres on everything (after years of saying how criticism of President Bush was off limits), and you have folks on the left every bit as frothy in their defense of Obama as they were in their attacks on Bush.
I just wish people could once again engage in civilized debate, actually learn enough about the topics being debated to hold a conversation that is deeper than ‘Obama sucks!’ or ‘Pelosi is a druggie!’ Those types of comments scream ignorance, as obviously Pelosi is not a druggie and Obama is way too new at his job to have anything resembling a fair assessment at this point.
It’s comical to see people so adamantly defending people who, if they saw on the street, wouldn’t even give them the time of day. Just admit your government, whether its Repubs or Dems, only want your money and couldn’t possibly care less about you and you’ll feel much better.
Nice points, Brian.
# 82 Mr. Fusion said, “Where is it written that ONLY the private sector can create jobs?”
It was written when FDR failed after 8 years of stimulus spending to create jobs and end the depression.
However, Omama seems to want to do the same thing but expects a different result. Insanity, by definition…
Zero==yea, its not at all like “cut taxes” no matter what the subject is. Its almost like trickle down economics wasn’t piss in your ears?
#77 Paddy-
“Fix our fiat currency economy and and the corrupt bankers (financiers) so they aren’t sucking up $ as parasites and the private sector does the rest.”
Ignoring the fiat currency issue, which is debatable both ways I think…
You do realize your second point (corrupt bankers) is essentially saying:
1) “We need to fix the fundamental nature of humanity (such as to eliminate corruption)”
and…
2) These corrupt bankers exist specifically because the free market private sector is specifically created to *grow* these corrupt bankers.
I heard a great analogy today which I’ll paraphrase. If we accept the free market laws of economics as, in fact, laws and not just theories/wishful thinking, then economics essentially becomes a natural act. And so allowing the free market to decimate the economic landscape is not unlike simply sitting back with your arms crossed while the rivers flood and destroy everything and everyone around you simply because you happen to live on a hill and building a dam would take too much time and money.
Now this kind of social darwinism as a philosophy is fine if you accept it, but call it what it is. I for one think we as a species and a society can and in fact should go beyond Darwinian concepts of survival of the fittest.