Interesting system we have. Insurance companies stretch out the process in hopes you die before they have to pay on a claim. Of course, that is if you or your employer can afford insurance.
They borrow leftover prescription drugs from friends, attempt to self-diagnose ailments online, stretch their diabetes and asthma medicines for as long as possible and set their own broken bones. When emergencies strike, they rarely can afford the bills that follow.
“My first reaction was to start laughing — I just kept saying, ‘No way, no way,’ ” Alanna Boyd, a 28-year-old receptionist, recalled of the $17,398 — including $13 for the use of a television — that she was charged after spending 46 hours in October at Beth Israel Medical Center in Manhattan with diverticulitis, a digestive illness. “I could have gone to a major university for a year. Instead, I went to the hospital for two days.”
In the parlance of the health care industry, Ms. Boyd, whose case remains unresolved, is among the “young invincibles” — people in their 20s who shun insurance either because their age makes them feel invulnerable or because expensive policies are out of reach. Young adults are the nation’s largest group of uninsured — there were 13.2 million of them nationally in 2007, or 29 percent, according to the latest figures from the Commonwealth Fund, a nonprofit research group in New York.
[…]
Young adults are the nation’s largest group of uninsured — there were 13.2 million of them nationally in 2007, or 29 percent, according to the latest figures from the Commonwealth Fund, a nonprofit research group in New York.
[…]
“There’s a big sense of urgency,” said Susan Sherry, the deputy director of Community Catalyst. She described uninsured young adults as especially vulnerable. “People are losing their jobs, and a lot of jobs don’t carry health insurance. They’re new to the work force, they’ve been covered under their parents or school plans, and then they drop off the cliff.”
“Interesting system we have. ”
Yep, in CA, free gov’t health care, high taxes & cost of living and a bankrupt state…
Before the National Health detractors start commenting I want to state that I agree that almost every service the government is involved in is run extremely poorly. But something has to be done about this issue.
Health care is too fundamentally important to leave critical decisions to insurance companies that obtain maximum profits from not providing services (medical care) to their customers. There is a conflict of interest here.
At a minimum we need some type of catastrophic insurance available to everyone at a reasonable cost.
“You know, society/government is here to provide for the needs of the people”
Wrong. Government is not there to provide the “needs” of the people, that’s the job of said people. Government is there to make sure that individual’s rights are not infringed upon by another.
Most of what the federal government does these days should be done by the states, but of course saying that doesn’t get you elected to congress
Considering that a retarded 4 year old is probably more qualified to practice medicine than your average modern Doctor… I’m not quite sure that I see the problem here.
I watched a friend of mine give himself 4 stitches with no anesthetic. (other than a bottle of captain morgan.)
#4–Bob==so what kind of idiot are you?
Liebertarian? Repuglican? Escapee?
Governments are formed “BY THE PEOPLE” to provide for the common good. Every study/survey shows the people want/demand/need/desire healthcare for everyone that needs it.
Now, if you want to argue for this healthcare to be created 50 different times rather than once, I suppose that could be addressed but “States Rights” are most often a stalking horse for some other more retarded issue.
Police Protection (protects rights yada, yada) is certainly one function of government, but government is here to do the will of the people as it defectively gets expressed and implemented. Many would say there is/should be a “right” to healthcare. Thats debatable, meaning–it can be discussed.
I don’t want to set my own broken bones, and I don’t want my neighbor to set his broken bones, and I don’t want either one of us to have to sell their house to do so.
USA is rich enough that we should have been providing this base need for decades now. We are simply proving ourselves by way of the attitudes you express, just too stupid to do so.
#3, I am a big national health care detractor, but I ask you this. Why are you national health care supporters so keen on trying out your idea on a national level? Why not do it on the state level, where the 10th amendment gives states the permission to do such things.
If government run health care is such a great idea, and would work so well, then the other 49 states would quickly adopt it, or risk losing citizens to those other states, and their taxes with it. That would give your side a defacto national health care system that you so crave.
The thing is, I think most National Health Care supporters know that its going to be a disaster, and that if its done on a state level, their is a better chance of reversing that disaster, if its done on a national level and everyone is forced at gun point to use the national health care system, that disaster is allot harder to undo.
Why is it that neolibs, and Big Government Republicans try all their crazy ideas on a national level first?
#7, Liebertarian? Did you think that up all by yourself while the teacher was writing on the blackboard? You are a riot, so much so that I forgot to laugh.
But I will answer your question like an adult. I associate most closely to Libertarians, but its pretty obvious that the constitution gives the federal government certain responsibilities, and the states get the rest. Somewhere we forgot that we are a nation of states. What works in California doesn’t always work in Virginia. If Californians wants State run health care, that’s fine by me, as long as they pay it from their state coffers.
As to your comment that “most” people want the government to provide health care, that’s really meaningless. We are a nation of laws, not opinion polls, if most people want national health care like you say, to be at the federal level, and want their to be a right to that health care then their is a way to do that. Go to the contract that governs out nation (the constitution) and use the rules it makes available to make changes. Its hard, but its suppose to be.
No I do not want you to go out and set your own bones. If you want to, well, I would say you are an idiot, and advise you not to do it, but you should be free to be an idiot, especially when it comes to your own life. I should not be forced to pay your health care, for you can be an idiot and not provide it for yourself. The other side of that coin, is that the government should not get in the way of you going to a doctor of your choosing.
I know libs, and lets be honest allot of Republicans too, like to think libertarians are all for no government and total chaos, but that’s really not the case. What most of us are against is a huge federal government. If you don’t like the state you are in, it is relatively easy to move to another. Don’t like the country you are in, its allot harder.
#9–Bob the Liebertarian it is then.
Yes, the big lie: “We are a nation of laws, not opinion.” /// What a dope. So, when the people pass a law calling for national healthcare, what do you say then? Idiot==so in love with Ayn Rand you think you avoided the issue?
Yes, the big lie: “I should not be forced to pay your health care.” /// I’ll take that argument straight on–why not? You prefer to keep your money while others can set their own broken legs===they are free to eat cake. Again, what a dope.
Yes, the big lie: :”What most of us are against is a huge federal government.” /// Like I’m sure you’d be happy if more money for the same thing was spent at the State Level?==BS!! You are just a self centered asshole like all other LIEBERTARIANS.
“I got mine==screw you.”
#8, Bob,
I am a big national health care detractor, but I ask you this. Why are you national health care supporters so keen on trying out your idea on a national level? Why not do it on the state level, where the 10th amendment gives states the permission to do such things.
Well, let see,
and then there is that Article 1, Sec. 8, Cl. 3
So it is quite clear the Federal government has the authority to implement a single payer health care system. What is not clear is if the States have the authority since most of the insured companies and all the insurance companies are in several States.
The thing is, I think most National Health Care supporters know that its going to be a disaster, and that if its done on a state level, their is a better chance of reversing that disaster, if its done on a national level and everyone is forced at gun point to use the national health care system, that disaster is allot harder to undo.
I’m glad only a few think that way. And most that do think that way are down a quart too. Or a few bricks shy of a full load. Or a couple of pennies short of a quarter.
We are a nation of laws, not opinion polls, if most people want national health care like you say, to be at the federal level, and want their to be a right to that health care then their is a way to do that. Go to the contract that governs out nation (the constitution) and use the rules it makes available to make changes. Its hard, but its suppose to be.
The preamble outlines what the responsibility of the government is. The body of the Constitution gives the Federal Government the authority already. What rule would you like to see changed?
I should not be forced to pay your health care, for you can be an idiot and not provide it for yourself.
Many people can’t afford health insurance. Maybe you can, but over 50 million can’t. BUT, it isn’t just the premiums, it is also the copays. Insured medical bills are the leading cause of bankruptcy in this country.
The other side of that coin, is that the government should not get in the way of you going to a doctor of your choosing.
Actually, no. The government should and DOES get in the way of your choosing which Doctor you may see. The first order is that all medical physicians must pass a State test. Then they must obtain a license and perform in a manner that they keep that license. Maybe you would like a Veterinarian to remove your appendix or a Dentist to insert a stent, but I wouldn’t.
How do we go about providing the best health care possible given our limitations?
We do have limitations. We can run out of money to do even the basics if we spend enough.
Doctors and the medical profession still have a long, long way to go before they can be counted on to identify the problem much less know what the cure is.
They can charge staggering amounts of money trying to find out before they let the patient play lab rat using treatments that in some cases have side effects as bad or worse than the original medical problem.
For the record I’m assuming they are only charging a modest mark up and are trying to help.
Some people in the medical profession are in it for the money, the glory, or who knows what but it isn’t making sick people better.
You can’t pay these people as much as they want. Hippocrates noted that in his day some people even made their patients sicker so they could charge them more and I don’t think professional care givers have changed all that much.
People are still trying to pad the bills.
When the state covers the bills you always get third rate medical treatment and long waits. Do not take my word for it. Check and see.
In both the United States and England people have been left to die in the waiting room or turned away.
The odds are that 90% of your medical bills will occur in the last three years of your life. How much you will enjoy the time this bys you may vary but in many cases not all that much but who wants to die?
I would like to see the government agree to reimburse care givers for some basic dental care, some not overly costly generic medications on a best bid but must meet the standard basis, to pay something basic like $50 for an emergency room visit and maybe $20 for a doctor/clinic visit. I might throw in a few low cost blood tests and such.
The rest? I guess they need to have made arrangements to take care of themselves, have good friends, or do without.
No I don’t like this but if it takes a million dollars a year to keep you alive the American people can’t afford it. If you have earned enough to cover those bills, more power to you.
If the economy goes ahead and tanks we may end up like Cuba only worse because we can’t survive in unheated homes.
That means unless you are a government big shot your medical treatment is going to be rather lame but everybody but the government big shots will be in the same line as you are. Just hope you don’t die before they get to you.
That we do not have a national health care system is a shame. It isn’t just those who are uninsured. Right now, in this economy, many people will put off seeing the doctor because they don’t have $20 for the copay. Well, they do, but they would also like to eat, or pay the mortgage, or pay the electric bill.
America spends more per capita on health care than any other nation by a long shot. Yet we die younger and are generally sicker. Our current system if fine if you are rich, but a piece of crap if you aren’t.
If not for benefits that I get at my work, I’ll be in my own business making more money and providing better service to customers.
17,
So, even though you’d be making “more” money, it’s not enough to cover health care AND wages? I think you don’t understand what “more” means…
$17,000 for one night in the local hospital… Oh, I had an X-Ray!!
And they kept waking me up every 30 minutes to see if I was asleep.
I don’t get it?
#19–Nimby==are you that “very well read” person from 1-2 days ago? Posted with the same appeal to his own authority with about the same impact.
So==can you recall what was wrong with that fine County Hospital Care? Thats right–no health maintenance. And while I don’t doubt charges for gauze or phone calls or aspirin may go up steeply, I challenge you to actually recall the general costs/charges went up 4-5 times in a couple of years. Sloppy recall on your part.
As to protocols being imposed==most are quite reasonable and required because too many docs don’t know what the frick they are doing except how they first learned to do something. Most such protocols allow excepts for justified cases that docs are too stupid or lazy to learn or comply with.
More Paperwork?? — boo hoo. Welcome to the same world we are all in.
Do we need more family docs? Of course. Will we get it with our system that reimburses intervention instead of diagnosis and avoidance? No.
Its actually funny. The costs you mostly refer to are an artifact of docs taking the healthiest hospital patients out of hospitals and into group practice.
Yea, there are a lot of changes that could be made to actually deliver better healthcare to actual patients rather than a better life style to docs.
Takes a revolution to go backwards, but doing away with the doctor monopoly over medicine would be a good start.
I think that our government’s role in health care shouldn’t be to provide coverage for your yearly check-up or a winter flu, but I think that at some point when a person’s medical bills become larger than what they could reasonably pay off over a certain period of time, there should be some system in place to act as an intermediary. It serves neither the provider nor the patient to charge an amount that a person can’t, and won’t pay off.
A human body is the greatest piece of infrastructure we have in this country. If it breaks, repair it and get it back to serving a purpose: working, buying, and paying taxes.
A Manhattan ER represents ALL EMERGENCY ROOMS.
This is a piece of pure propaganda for government-run health care….which if that’s what you want, be honest and say so…
I’ll admit, you’re very effective in appealing to emotion by building your case for socialized medicine on a few cases. Making the emotional plea works because who the hell would want anyone to suffer?
I tell you what…GIVE gold-plated health care to those who wish it and keep gov’t out of my lifestyle (healthy or otherwise). And please don’t make it a Hillary-style single-payer system.
Well, bobbo, I’m not going to get into a bitch contest with you. You know nothing of my experience and you know nothing about the practice of medicine. So, I’ll just assume those anal warts are itching like crazy.
“can you recall what was wrong with that fine County Hospital Care? Thats right–no health maintenance.” Actually, we had a rather complete system of outpatient clinics both in the hospital and around the County. If patients availed themselves of the service, it covered them from prenatal to old age.
“I challenge you to actually recall the general costs/charges went up 4-5 times in a couple of years. Sloppy recall on your part.” While I admit the facts and figure from over 20 years ago are a bit hazy at times, I do remember the price of an echocardiogram went from around $50 to over $200. And I remember the price of a right heart catheterization rose from about $300 to almost $2,000.
“As to protocols being imposed==most are quite reasonable and required because too many docs don’t know what the frick they are doing except how they first learned to do something. Most such protocols allow excepts for justified cases that docs are too stupid or lazy to learn or comply with.” You must have some issues with the medical profession. I’ve worked with doctors all over the world and few are too lazy or too stupid to learn new techniques. Those that are, are usually weeded out or relegated to non-critical duties.
I’m sorry I offended you bobbo. I merely wrote of a personal experience and did not expect an ad hominem attack in return. I am simply against nationalized healthcare even though it affects me almost not at all. I am in favor of doing something about the costs and the insurance industry. If Obama can do it, great.
23
“I think that our government’s role in health care shouldn’t be to provide coverage for your yearly check-up or a winter flu,”
You know that by providing yearly check-ups and prevention policies, you can head off the major crises that happen when checkups are not performed for years upon years. In fact, catastrophic care is the last place you want to end up naturally. But, in the US it seems that pushing pills is more important. In fact, it feels that the American WANTS his 1kg burger with .5kg bacon and 1.5 L soft drink for lunch and dinner EVERY DAY. And, if my heart, cholesterol, diabetes etc is getting in the way, well dammit doctor, give me some pills!
Offsetting the cost of the citizenry from having to keep themselves a live is a huge boon to the country. Instead of sinking 12K a year on the insurance gambling, that 12K can go to a real product.
#25–Nimby==where to start?
I could be specific like: you say:
“You know nothing of my experience” /// True which is why I barely mentioned it except to respond to the context you presented and even then it wasn’t personal except as it might apply to non-personal issues.
but more generally, are doctors stupid? No. Consistently among the smartest group averages tested. I was sloppy. They/you just bitching and complaining without any alternatives. Bitching because “things change.” When you are inducted to the top of the heap, why would you ever be for change? I suppose you don’t recognize your own anal warts when saying “I am simply against nationalized healthcare even though it affects me almost not at all.” Right you are: YOU DON’T CARE its just all your patients that suffer from the lack of national healthcare. But you don’t care. And thats my bitch with your post. Repeating what you admit, is that ad hominem?
“Actually, we had a rather complete system of outpatient clinics both in the hospital and around the County. If patients availed themselves of the service, it covered them from prenatal to old age.” /// Really? Unlike most docs, I don’t claim to know everything, so that is news to me. Unique to the degree its true. “If patients availed themselves”–why would they not? What aren’t you saying?
As I said, you remember the cost of certain discrete procedures going up in price. Even there, I’d bet money closer scrutiny would show your memory in error. More like standard practice being an xray at $50 being changed to a CT Scan at $500. Not the same thing.
Most incompetent docs are actually ignored. They go into solo practice with their privileges intact until the great peer review process can’t cover-up their negligence any longer. You have to maintain the image of weeding out the lazy and stupid in order to discourage lay review. Every bad doc that final gets acted on before “retiring” has a 20-33 year track record of bad medicine==often involving a fascination with “adhesions.”
Again–nothing against YOU personally. Just that as an insider you offer nothing except lining your own nest.
#11 Scott – I’ve been told by Canadians that the taxes to pay for that health care system has resulted in many companies shutting down and leaving Canada.
On a general note: why does everyone equate no insurance with no health care. Since graduating a poor college students my wife and I have always bought health insurance with a $5000 deductible. That keeps the premiums down to a reasonable rate. When we had our kids we found that most doctors would work with us on the deductible and even give us discounts. We even used the county health system when we had little money. Fill out a piece of paper to prove your poor and they take care of your. It is a to each his ability to pay system. I have friends with no insurance but they drive nice cars and have cells phones with unlimited texting. You can get respectable insurance for what these people pay for cell phone plans. The uninsured crisis is really and irresponsibility crisis.
bobbo, why do you always want to be the one who knows everything about everything? You can’t be the expert in all areas. Go away.
# 10 bobbo said, “So, when the people pass a law calling for national healthcare, what do you say then?”
That it’s unconstitutional and I won’t contribute to it financially.
#28, Robert,
I’ve been told by Canadians that the taxes to pay for that health care system has resulted in many companies shutting down and leaving Canada.
Would you care to name some of those companies? Canadian companies prefer the Canadian health care system over what the American system provides.
The system you describe actually puts the burden on the weakest political player, the county. It should be the strongest player that manages the fund.
#30, Cow-Patty,
10 bobbo said, “So, when the people pass a law calling for national healthcare, what do you say then?”
That it’s unconstitutional and I won’t contribute to it financially.
If the Federal Government passed a law tomorrow establishing a National Health Care Plan, it would be the law. In order for it to be unconstitutional, there would need to be a reason it is unconstitutional. And not just your claim.
So please explain why a Federal (or even State) health plan would be unconstitutional. And remember, the last time you claimed something was unconstitutional you were handed your head.
33,
“So please explain why a Federal (or even State) health plan would be unconstitutional.”
Uh, Fusion… he’s the CEO, remember? He’s used to getting his way in the moms basement in matters of larder stockpiling…
# 33 Mr. Fusion said, “And remember, the last time you claimed something was unconstitutional you were handed your head.”
Umm, you mean that you were given data by myself & 3 other people and you couldn’t comprehend it…. LOL
Same as this time.
The US spends more per capita, by a wide margin, than any other country on health care. You already have a large and cumbersome bureaucracy to manage it a various levels of governments and HMO’s. The costs are increasingly being born by business, not individuals or government.
As a Canadian looking in, 10 years ago I would have started a business in the US for a variety of reasons. Now the ballooning cost of US health care which has shifted to a business tax (in reality) has made it too expensive and risky.
#32 Mr. Fusion -I can’t tell you the name of the company, even if I knew it, but he is in the iron industry. He was sent to Texas to to explore the option of moving some of their operations to Texas and Mexico. (Texas is a “right to work” state by the way and probably one of he best economies in the country right now.)
With respect to the Canadian health care system he told me, “Don’t let people tell you that it is better than the system in the U.S.” While he was here he had a procedure done that he was going to have to “suffer for 6-8 months” before he could get anything done in Canada. He said he paid the doctor here and it was a reasonable price. Done.