The Republicans know something needs to be done but don’t like all the pork in the current bill. Of course, not a one of them added anything even remotely like pork to it. That would be hypocritical. They also don’t want the bankers to starve by capping them at a paltry 10x what the average family makes, assuming they still have a job at all. Some banks are ready to pay back the money they got last fall so as to prevent this, but oddly, may not be allowed to do so.
Do you approve of Obama’s plan? What if all the pork were stripped from the current bill? Would you then support it?
If not Obama’s plan, with or without pork, then what? With jobs disappearing at a staggering rate, something needs to be done fast.
Oh, by the way, Paulson is accused of lying when setting up TARP. Just can’t trust anyone with a billion dollars these days.
#30 We’re looking for ideas to FIX the economy, not flush it.
What if the gov’t stopped borrowing and paid down the national debt. And got rid of lobbiest. And implement a fair tax structure that encourages manufacturing to migrate back to the states. That would be change I could believe in. Otherwise, this is just more hot air that’ll drive us deeper into depression.
#32 – Alfred1,
Huh … no link. I thought not.
* Biodegradable over what time period?
* Ever heard of global warming?
* Ever seen the images of the birds and seals and otters dying with oil stuck all over them?
BTW, which god are you talking about? Zeus? Thor? Ganesh? FSM? Nevermind, we should stay off the topic of religion here. Suffice it to say that at a very bare minimum, from a scientific standpoint, your statement is null and void. Feel free to believe whatever makes you happy. But, let’s not base policy on fairy tales.
So, feel free to post a link about the wonderful environmental and economic benefits of destroying the ecosystem on which we depend for clean air, clean water, top soil, food, etc. to the tune of $30 trillion per year, link below.
http://tinyurl.com/5rgloj
(See how easy it is to post a link? Try it sometime.)
Oh, and remember, oil spills are not a mere occasional accident. They are a regular occurrence. Note the increasing frequency and severity.
http://tinyurl.com/3ckvvk
I’m glad that the Senate is going over this bill. I’m glad that Senate Democrats and Republicans are working together.
I didn’t like Pelosi pushing this through the house, I still would like to know why a dozen House Democrats voted against it.
I’m glad to see that Republicans offered an alternative, short lived or not, at least they tried.
Yea, President Obama wants this passed by next week, I’d like to see something done too, but didn’t Congress do a quick and dirty passage of the last package? The news seems to be full of reports about the problem from that package.
The Senate is actually working, don’t look a gift horse in the mouth.
#16, JCD,
And what difference does this all make? The Democrats have enough votes to vote in anything they want. What is the fuss? Why is there this debate? Why is Obama grandstanding?? What’s the point?
Because the Democrats KNOW this package won’t save a damned thing and they don’t want to be the ones blamed when it doesn’t. Misery loves company and they see lots of misery coming.
#5, Right On.
But you forgot
11) Abolish the Fed (as has been pointed out already)
It’s all about confidence.
Economies are built on confidence, and there isn’t any now. Someone mentioned the SEC…they need a new set of big balls, and a great big stick. Inflict some pain on those who played with unsecured debt, etc. The banking regulations we had prior to Reagan were there for a damned good reason, as we can all see now, so re-apply and enforce them.
Make the banks that preyed on low-income homeowners eat their debt.
Create incentives for us to upgrade and build new homes with American-made products. The Stimuluator Bill has some of this.
Incent Walmart, Home Despot, BLowes, and Menards to acquire more American suppliers.
In short…BUY AMERICAN. I’m not protectionist, but we have to clean up our own mess before we can worry about other things.
Allow Texas to secede. That way they can do their own thing and we don’t have to worry about them. Then make Florida secede, that place is nuts what with their giant wierdness magnet down by Miami. j/k
# 39 Olo Baggins of Bywater said, “Allow Texas to secede. ”
Sure, they have a budget surplus AND billions in a rainy day fund. It seems the pols there are better at running gov than the people in DC, and most other states.
I guarantee that if they left the Union people from across the US would scream to get in…
Paddy…. Taxes from oil made them fat, it wasn’t anything Rick Perry did. They just got lucky.
# 42 Olo Baggins of Bywater said, “Paddy…. Taxes from oil made them fat, it wasn’t anything Rick Perry did. They just got lucky.”
There’s no luck in spending LESS than you take in. CA had many years in a row or record tax revenue and they constantly spent more and are now broke. No luck involved…
Nice try though.
I sort of want to just let it all crash and burn them rebuild hopefully learning from our mistakes but to many people would go hungry and our nation would loose what is left of our productive capability.
This Stimulus Bill seems ok
Yo conservatives giving out of work people tax breaks is silly, they have no income duh. Giving businesses tax breaks when they are trying to sell goods and services to people with no income is not going to help.
The Bill:
$102 billion Welfare/unemployment ouch !
Wait the last administration had spent over $600 billion on the Iraq War, I think we can let these guys spend 1/6th of that on our own people.
So we pay people to build Electric smart grid, repair and add public infrastructure, spend money on highway construction, clean water, flood control, the environmental, renewable energy and food safety. Will it work to get the economy going, who knows? Maybe it’s better to have tried and lost then not to try. In the end we will still have lots of families that had work for a while longer and we will have all that stuff to boot.
I say go for it. What the hell better than sitting on our asses. Is there pork? You Betcha how many so called must pass Bills get out with out it? I don’t like it but that’s how our system has always worked.
# 44 Knows all but tells only some said, “The Bill:
$102 billion Welfare/unemployment ouch !
Wait the last administration had spent over $600 billion on the Iraq War, I think we can let these guys spend 1/6th of that on our own people.
So we pay people to build Electric smart grid, repair and add public infrastructure, spend money on highway construction, clean water, flood control, the environmental, renewable energy and food safety.”
Less than 20% of the bill is for the type of stuff you listed… Most is useless crap spending that won’t help the economy…
I’d dump all the money into
1. becoming energy independent
2. universal single payor healthcare,
3. and kiddie development meaning healthcare/education/and afterschool activities.
# 46 bobbo said, “I’d dump all the money into
1. becoming energy independent”
That would be cool. Unfortunately, the bill doesn’t do much of anything in that direction.
# 14 Greg Allen said “You’ve bought into the conservative BS about capitalism.”
Um, other way around dude. It’s just a simple fact that no liberal or conservative plan is going to work without healthy functioning banks.
#48–QB–I agree every advanced society needs banks/credit system sufficient to meet its needs. That doesn’t describe what we have today and what is trying to be saved.
I see no evidence that ALL THE CURRENT BANKS COULDN’T FAIL and the remaining credit unions and association along with small regional banks all supported by Federal Programs wouldn’t give the USA what we really need as opposed to corporate welfare for the rich.
#45
“Less than 20% of the bill is for the type of stuff you listed… Most is useless crap spending that won’t help the economy…”
o Paddy Paddy Paddy
Do you ever read what’s in these Bills or just listen to talk radio?
Welfare/unemployment ($102 billion)
like I said ouch, sad the need it so great.
Energy ($58 billion)
If this is not enough lets spend more it’s a matter of national security
Infrastructure ($90 billion)
Fine by me. I’ll send you some money on April 15th.
Health care ($112.1 billion
It’s a mess lets try some thing.
Education ($141.6 billion)
Can’t go wrong there maybe Paddy you could get school loan and do some book learning
Tax cuts a whopping ($275 billion)
What it’s not a tax and spend Bill? Just a spend and go into deeper dept Bill I thought that’s what the GOP liked.
I’d say that the first step would be to put all the bankers and hedge fund operators and stock & bond rating services heads into prison for life for permitting all the toxic mortgage debt and unregulated derivatives to be sold. Add Alan Greenspan and whoever the geniuses were that effectively repealed the Glass-Steagall Act. Second step would be to confiscate their Swiss bank accounts to repay people who lost money because of their greed.
After that, I haven’t a clue. I’m no economist, but all those jackasses mentioned above proved that they really weren’t, either.
# 50 Knows all but tells only some said, “Do you ever read what’s in these Bills or just listen to talk radio?”
Care to say how you came up with those #s?
Paddy-O said, on February 6th, 2009 at 2:38 pm
# 50 Knows all but tells only some said, “Do you ever read what’s in these Bills or just listen to talk radio?”
Care to say how you came up with those #s?
Just add it up
( http://www.rules.house.gov/111/LegText/111_hr1_text.pdf)
oh and I forgot the $40 billion of bacon fat to grease the wheels and get the votes
My suggestion, condition the bailout money to the banks, it all needs to go for loans that need to be disbursed within a time line and with good judgement. 50% of interest earned should go to paying back the bailout-loan.
In my mind it’s all a question of confidence. Peoples confidence in our financial system has eroded almost completely, recovery of this confidence must be made top priority. The system works but must be regulated and transparent, or it turns into a feeding frenzy for greedy sharks.
Of the posts I’ve taken time to read, Greg Allen #8 comes the closest in sentiment to what I believe.
Our economy is trashed because:
A. The demand side was depending on items we do not need fueled by borrowed money. This collapses easily and did it ever.
B. The supply side is not done in the USA.
We need protectionism, nationalism and infrastructure to support internal industry.
We also need a country that favors it’s own citizens. Affirmative action — which was meant to address past discrimination towards African Americans — should ONLY benefit long-term African Americans citizens (40+ year or lifetime citizens) — not some asshole from India applying for a government cheese job.
#54 – Paddy-tr0ll,
You have got to be kidding!! You state crap all the time and never ever back it up. Why don’t you just take the numbers at face value as you expect others to do for you?
Do you now see why you need to post links? Of course not. Hypocrite troll!! bobbo has you pegged, net value to society, zero.
# 55 Knows all but tells only some said, “Just add it up ”
I did. There isn’t one penny in the bill to build ANY base power plants. No $ for it.
So, nothing that will get us off of foreign oil. You should read what those line item expenditures are actually for…
Next.
#42 – Alfred1,
No link required…its common knowledge oil is produced by natural processes in the earth…we drill into the earth for it… we do not make it in factories…it therefore is “organic…natural…biodegradable.”
Wrong, that makes it natural. Period. It happens it is organic.
Oil breaks down quickly once exposed to the elements…thousands of barrels of oil leak daily from the ocean floor…and that is quickly broken down so we don’t notice it.
As for biodegradable, how quickly is quickly for you? Why does Valdez still smell like a gas station? Common knowledge should make it even easier to find a link. Why not give it a try? Tell me how many years a gallon of oil on the arctic tundra takes to degrade. Back it up with a link though or risk eternal trollhood. You’re halfway there already.
Global warming is a con for obtaining research grants and political kickbacks.
Go ahead post a link to Heartland or one of the other ExxonMobil web sites. When you find a site that isn’t paid for by Exxon, let me know. There are one or two peer reviewed papers contradicting global warming. There are also many thousands stating that it’s real.
While oil is not good for birds to swim in, it breaks down quickly once exposed to the elements and some bacteria actually eat it for food.
Again, how quickly? It matters. Some bacteria indeed do eat oil. And yet, there are toxic spills all over requiring huge clean up costs, if we bother to clean them up. Again, why does Valdez … nevermind. The right question is why do I bother?
If oil didn’t exist, then the earth could not support billons, in luxury, as it does now.
Correct. That would be a very very good thing. Scratch that. I take it back. About a billion or so are in luxury. Another billion are chronically hungry or starving. Many more billions are just eking out a living. You need to get out more.
Then our forests, all wildlife, would be devoured, burned and eaten…and we would turn upon each other…
Wrong. The problems of the world, especially those sorts of problems, are caused by the fact that there are billions on the planet rather than millions.
The key board you utilize to disseminate your irrational beliefs is made from petroleum…so also the tv you use to watch the Barack News Media and learn the latest DNC spin on reality…
If you aren’t the hypocrite I believe all leftists are, you should identify all the oil products you use, and cast them far from you, especially your car.
Get back to me after you have expunged nasty oil from your life.
I recognize the level of hypocrisy in my life. I do what I can to minimize it. It happens that if everyone in the world lived as I do, we would need about 3 planet earths. It is also true that if everyone lived as I do, all of the problems caused by humanity would begin to heal in just one generation. It won’t be my kids dealing with the damage we’ve caused to this poor planet.
Remember, control-C to copy the link then control-v to paste it. Go forth and google.
Best way to fix the economy is for Obama to declare martial law and lock up these speed bump Republicans.
There is work to do, people are losing their jobs and these slimy, emasculated, loser SOB’s are playing politics to demonstrate the shred of political relevance they have left.
bobbo, I really don’t care what the banking system is as long as it’s solvent and people and companies can confidently save and borrow money.
If you want Credit Unions, knock yourself out.
#62–QB==just being surly or have you missed the point?
The “no liberal or conservative plan is going to work” currently under consideration is all about and only about saving the current overleveraged oversized international trading banks.
Thinking outside the box would be to let them all fail–ZERO BAILOUT–but to start new programs to support the other banks as stated.
Paddy-O said, #59
There isn’t one penny in the bill to build ANY base power plants. No $ for it. So, nothing that will get us off of foreign oil.
Base power plants ? old school
What I see is…
$20 billion for renewable energy
$32 billion for an electric smart grid
Plus $5 or $6 billion for weatherizing low-income homes.
Don’t forget to check the air pressure in your car tires.
I’m finished with you Paddy I think you are just playing “Is This the Right Room for an Argument”
You my friend are no John Cleese.
Enjoy your talk radio.
If you bother responding to this post you can have the last word I have to get back to work.
1. Government PUSHED tech.
Have the gov install TECH that should have been up LONG AGO, and sell the USE of that tech BACK to the companies.
2. Government sponsored SALES.
I know its against the law..But I would have the GOV make stores for sale items at DECENT prices, and profits go to TAXES..
3. Corporate Structure and payment schedule.
DESIGN a structure and payment system that ALL corps must be designed under. UNLESS they can show a better design, they MUST work under it.
4. REDO the IRS.
Take Corp tax BACK to the 70’s and SCARE THE HELL out of them. To many benefits have been given to the corps in the last 40 years to FOSTER growth..insted of competition..