Trees dying in the West at record rate
Trees are dying faster than ever in the old-growth forests of California and the mountains of the West, a phenomenon scientists say is linked to rising regional temperatures and the destructive forces of early snowmelt, drought, forest fires and deadly insect infestations brought on by global warming.
Over the past 17 years in some regions – and 25 to 37 years in others – the death rates of mature trees have doubled, the scientists said, raising concerns that the problem goes well beyond tree deaths alone.
Of course global warming is blamed. How about the effects of clear cutting and bad forest management? Could that have something to do with it? Nah.
hahaha. Nice.
JCD–why poo-poo “the science” behind this observable fact? The article also names long term drought (more rain, less snow) and the onslaught of pests as a result==all CLIMATE related.
Its good to challenge and to be skeptical, but shouldn’t we avoid being mindless?
To your point==of course ADD IN bad forest management activities==but it is just an ADD IN, not an all encompensing substitution.
The scientist based his opinion on years of study, observation, and reports. What cup of cappacino and bagel did you base your opinion on.
BE CAREFUL JCD–too many people read this blog and don’t think critically at all. They’ll believe YOU instead of science.
the fact that everyone is automatically blaming this, and damn near everything on “global warming” is the definition of being mindless. Like back in the 90s when everything was being blamed on “El Nino.”
#2–frag==silly post. Name “everything” other than weather related events?
As the climate changes, the weather changes and things related to climate/weather also change==like species of trees dieing out in one place and becoming established in other places.
I guess you think the news of Robins for the first time ever in the Frozen North is just more BS and has nothing to do with warmer weather patterns?
Its rich really==even staring DEATH IN THE FACE won’t create doubt in a climate truther.
See John===I tried to warn ya.
BTW–nothing automatic about connecting species migration with global warming–RTFA==based on years of collected data. You know what DATA is I assume. Only your kneejerk reaction would be fairly described as “automatic.”
You may be right John, but I think I’ll go with the forestry experts on this.
Of course global warming is blamed. How about the effects of clear cutting and bad forest management? Could that have something to do with it? Nah.
Clear-cutting of nearby forest would certainly create edge conditions. Trees near the disturbance would have a lot to do with it. Reduced transpiration would also reduce rainfall farther inland. Bad forest management is certainly a real issue today in much of the world.
However, your statement makes me think you do not believe that the researchers took such things into account. By making such an assumption you, as a geek, question the expertise of nearly a dozen forest ecologists. Would you like to hear that forest ecologists are now second guessing the programming work of a dozen top programmers who agreed on a design to solve a problem?
The research involved nearly a dozen leading forest ecologists who studied mortality rates of individual trees in 76 plots of unmanaged forests, situated primarily in California, Oregon, Washington and southwestern British Columbia.
Also note that they did not state solely that it was global warming. However, they point to data not only from models but from real measurements of the temperatures over 30 years.
The most likely cause of the increasing deaths, van Mantgem said, is the widespread rise in average temperatures throughout the study regions over the past three decades – an increase of a full degree Fahrenheit and an amount consistent with the global warming measurements and models reported by the world’s experts of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change.
They also state that the increase in tree deaths has been pervasive. If I read this correctly, it means that it is observed in forests of varying sizes both interior and at the edge. I think it might be a tad difficult to blame them all on bad forest management and creation of edge conditions. It seems unlikely that these factors would apply in all 76 plots studied.
So, be skeptical when you want. But, be careful about criticizing others in their fields of expertise, as you would like before hearing criticism of you and a team of respected colleagues in your own field of expertise by someone with, at best, an interested lay person’s level of knowledge.
First of all this little problem is facing a huge chunk of the pacific north west, and secondly it’s all the pine beetles fault. Just because it’s a little warmer those selfish little buggers are fitting in a whole reproductive cycle they didn’t have before. Nasty little bastards! I say bring back the DDT!
This is just another sign the nay sayers on climate change would rather ignore. Bad forest management, shit man, those forests have been around thousand of years I don’t see why they’re gonna need our help now unless some serious environmental factors at work.
This is caused by the left wing nut jobs who believe in Global Warming. Notice it is happening in California where the majority of the nut jobs live.
They are cutting back on their carbon footprints and they are killing all the trees because there isn’t enough co2 for them to breath.
Many of those dead trees are trees that were replanted after the old growth was harvested. What they’re not telling you is they harvested many of the pines and replanted with Douglas Fir. The Douglas Fir are dying because the climate is wrong for them.
A few years ago there was a long news report on this. Scientists blamed it on the policy of not allowing wildfires to run their natural course in old growth areas…
Read “The Dying of the Trees” by Charles E. Little, then talk to me.
#10, Grandpa,
Many of those dead trees are trees that were replanted after the old growth was harvested. What they’re not telling you is they harvested many of the pines and replanted with Douglas Fir.
Not quite. If you read the article it states Old Growth Forests. That means they haven’t been harvested yet. That means they have not been replanted at all, let alone with Douglas Fir.
I would think the forest fires and drought may be a big percentage of this. And the fact that old growth forest are old and old trees die. Maybe we should cut them down and plant new trees that are better suited for the so called climate change.
JCD,
For someone who posted this story, I would have expected you to take the time to read it yourself.
How about the effects of clear cutting and bad forest management?
from the article.
The research involved nearly a dozen leading forest ecologists who studied mortality rates of individual trees in 76 plots of unmanaged forests, situated primarily in California, Oregon, Washington and southwestern British Columbia. They also looked at trees in a few interior states: Idaho, Montana, Utah and Arizona.
Unmanaged forests also means they haven’t been clear cut and from the article, it appears the problem is pervasive among all trees.
John,
you read 1 article and make a snide comment about how it can’t be global warming and instead is probably more related to “bad forest management.”
What I want to know is.. what do you know about this?
These scientists have probably been studying this all their lives. They probably spend hundreds of hours out in the forest looking closely at this. What do you know that they don’t?
Well at least it will be a good morel season this spring here out west. They just love those beetle killed trees.
I’ve often said we are focusing on the wrong problem. Pollution is the problem, not greenhouse gases. As we improve industrial processes for higher efficiency and reduced chemical emissions, we will reduce CO2 output as well. The real problem is the mercury and lead and PCBs and such that we are fucking this planet with.
In this case, I strongly believe that healthy trees without acid rain and chemical miscues in the soil and pesticide-resistant bugs eating them alive, they’d be able to compensate for the altered weather patterns.
Reduce CO2? Plants love CO2. Sea plants love CO2 (that’s why CO2 is bubbled in fancy aquariums). Trees love CO2. The more CO2, the more luxurious the growth. We need more CO2 in the air. Think of the trees.
And jets. More jet exhaust. Their contrails have been shown to lower Earth temperatures counter-acting global warming.
I can only imagine the missed opportunities of more toxic sludge.
RBG
#19–RBG==plants don’t love anything. They just respond to their environment:
“Predicting the world’s overall changes in food production in response to elevated CO2 is virtually impossible.”
http://newscientist.com/article/dn11655
# 20 bobbo said, “Predicting the world’s overall changes in food production in response to elevated CO2 is virtually impossible.”
Exactly. All we know for sure is that when the Earth was warmer & had higher CO2 levels there was A LOT more plant life than now.
Taking advantage of that climate for higher food production would be up to people.
Al Gore & co. have been telling everyone that they should blame everything on global warming.
Meanwhile, James Lovelock has gotten depressed and declared all solutions for global warming a waste of time except one: Have farmers take agricultural waste and turn it into charcoal and bury it.
The number he gives are fascinating and dwarf any other solution.
He is claiming 550,000 megatons of carbon being produced by the biosphere. Even 1 percent of that captured would be a worldwide drop of 20%.
#21,
All we know for sure is that when the Earth was warmer & had higher CO2 levels there was A LOT more plant life than now.
Are you now claiming that the “more plant life” when the earth was warmer is beneficial to today’s world? Would the increased heat and CO2 encourage more crops or weeds?
You claim it, you answer it.
#23 Screeeeeeech!
Wow.
Adjust meds please.
Haven’t people been predicting famine and too many people with not enough food for centuries?
Obama’s science advisor was one of the guys a few decades ago.
#24 – Paddy-trOll,
You were asked an intelligent and reasonable question. Great response. It shows exactly what your problem is.
When asked an intelligent question, screech, your brain comes to a halt and you need more meds. Now we know. Perhaps in the future, you will simply refrain from making stupid claims in the first place so that you need not feel that screeching halt in your brain and will not need a medical jump start.
#25 – MikeN,
Haven’t people been predicting famine and too many people with not enough food for centuries?
Obama’s science advisor was one of the guys a few decades ago.
And with Rwanda as the first Malthusian conflict and Darfur as the first climate conflict, aren’t we seeing exactly that? What is your point?
Clearcuting old growth forests and replacing species with more profitable ones has long-term effects.
# 27 Misanthropic Scott said, “And with Rwanda as the first Malthusian conflict and Darfur as the first climate conflict,”
History much?
ROFL
#29 – Paddy-trOll,
English much?
http://tinyurl.com/39a8d7
http://tinyurl.com/agrb6z
#29 – Paddy-trOll,
English much?
Rwanda: http://tinyurl.com/agrb6z