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This is very painful for many families who lost loved ones on 9/11.
Plans to close Guantanamo are not sitting well with the Sept. 11 victims’ relatives who sat stunned while two alleged terrorists declared they were proud of their role in the plot.
It is a potentially momentous time for the military detention center. President-elect Barack Obama whose inauguration is Tuesday has said he will close it, and many observers and some officials here expect him to suspend the war crimes tribunals for accused terrorists and move the trials to the U.S.
The victims’ relatives were in the courtroom audience as two Sept. 11 defendants, Ramzi Binalshibh and Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, proclaimed their role in the worst terrorist attack on U.S. soil.
“We did what we did; we’re proud of Sept. 11,” said Binalshibh, who has said he wants to plead guilty to charges.
“If they’re guilty … then let’s give them the death penalty that they deserve,” said Jim Riches of Brooklyn, N.Y., whose 29-year-old firefighter son, Jimmy, was killed at the World Trade Center.
What do you think? Close Gitmo, at least finish the trials of those involved in 9/11, or leave Gitmo open?
Draw and quarter them. All of them.
Take them all back where they came from. We didn’t ask anyone when we nabbed them, why should we when we return them. The government is just kidding themselves that any of the prisoners are dangerous or important. It’s all CYA!
It should definitely be closed, but i do not think so for the same reasons as many others. I think the relations with Cuba would be tremendously improved if we gave back that tiny piece of worthless rock called gitmo base that the Cuban government has quarreled with the US for ages about. I dont care what they do with the prisoners, i would say. Bring em back to the US and let them rot in jail after conviction. And i dont mean a nice jail for political prisoners.. No i mean a real nasty one where theyd get raped up the wazoo by hairy bikers with meth addictions, and killer white supremacists that would like nothing more than “revenge” for 9/11. Compared to that, waterboarding and their time at Gitmo will be a fond memory for them.
#3, Egan,
I dont care what they do with the prisoners, i would say. Bring em back to the US and let them rot in jail after conviction.
I see you forgot all about the “fair trial” part. The problem there is that almost all the evidence has been tainted through the use of torture.
And i dont mean a nice jail for political prisoners.. No i mean a real nasty one where theyd get raped up the wazoo by hairy bikers with meth addictions, and killer white supremacists that would like nothing more than “revenge” for 9/11.
You are one sick puppy. I’m sure you would fit right in inside Putin’s new Russia.
Well they ought to give those accused TRIALS – WITH REAL EVIDENCE – NOT TORTURED “CONFESSIONS” or release them if there is no evidence !!!
Then keep GITMO open for those WALL STREET CROOKS – STARTING WITH MADOFF !!! A little WATER-BOARDING ought to get them to TELL WHERE THE MONEY IS !!!
“What do you think? Close Gitmo, at least finish the trials of those involved in 9/11, or leave Gitmo open?”
Hmmm. Considering that a large % of those released end up committing more terrorist acts; quickly finish prosecuting those we have good evidence on (6months) with a civilian judge overseeing & return the rest to their countries of origin. After that, close the prison.
Ir order to keep this from happening in the future, from here on out, if people are caught attacking our military or civilians and they don’t meet the legitimate combatant status, execute them on the spot.
1. Close Gitmo
2. Try the detainiess.
3. If convicted, send to prison. Otherwise, kick them loose.
Couldn’t be easier.
#7 Smart person. Using a commodity usually unfound on DU. Logic and reason.
#7,
Correct me if I am wrong, but the problem with putting these guys on trial is that they have all been tortured to some degree or another and that taints (almost) all the evidence… and a bunch of other legal processes as well…
I don’t think anything even resembling a “trial” can be had for them anymore. Bush appointed judges have said as much. At the same time, I am not totally cynical, but some of these guys are really bad guys.
So what do you do with them???
People should be angry at Bush and Cheney for creating this situation that has endangered the future security of the US, and ultimately they should be held to account for their piss poor and illegal leadership on this issue.
I think we have atleast 3 different groups here:
1. Evidently 5 terrorists who have been charged with and have admitted being part of or in some way supportive of the 911 attack. Hang them after a fair hearing.
2. Some folks picked up on the battlefield who were actively engaged in hostilities towards the USA or the given government. Incarcerate them in the USA until terrorism stops.==oops==after a fair hearing.
3. The other 95% were who knows what picked up on or near or far away from the battlefield often as the result of rewards being paid for “turning in terrorist.” I put OBL’s chauffeur in this category and many others. Give them a fair hearing and release those who don’t have a shread of proof against them.
Stop invading countries leading to the bankruptcy of America when excluding them from trade arrangements can be very damaging over time as long as our capitalist class doesn’t trade secretly with them to turn a profit.
Close Gitmo, have trials for the “detainees” and eliminate all monetary and political aid to Israel. Our bias in support of Israel was the motivation for the 9/11 attack as sighted by the 9-11 commission. Israel spies on us, sells our technology to the Chinese, humiliates our Sec. of State (OK Rice is a stooge anyway) and kills our soldiers. They are not our allies, they are our manipulators. If you live in this country you must think everything revolves around Israel & Great Britan (actually not so great). Dump both of these losers and step into the light.
Also, stop reading Dvorak’s Yellow Journalism blog.
#6, Cow-Paddy,
Considering that a large % of those released end up committing more terrorist acts;
Do you have any proof of that?
If Obama closes Gitmo then all the detainees should come live with him in the White House instead of unleashing them on the rest of us.
I mean if they are so innocent, what’s the problem? Heck, a few could even go live with Mr. Fusion since he likes them so much.
# 12 Mr. Fusion said, “Do you have any proof of that?”
Plenty. Once you prove you have reading comprehension at least equal to a 10 year old, I’ll e-mail it to you. Please post your e-mail address.
#14, Cow-Paddy,
Please post your e-mail address.
Now you know that is not about to happen. You claimed it, post here where a “large %” of released Gitmo guests went on to commit terrorists acts. If you can’t do it, then no big deal. It is just another demonstration of what a posing troll you are.
1.) Just declare them to be POWs.
2.) Hold them for the duration of the War on Terror.
3.) War crimes tribunals for those that violated the laws of war. (those that fought without a recognizable uniform, those that targeted civilians, or those that were complicit in such acts.)
Some of them are wanted for capital crimes in their country of origin. Those can be sent back home.
You couldn’t cut the others loose. There is no way to be sure that they wouldn’t violate parole. (Taking arms up against the United States.)
# 15 Mr. Fusion said, “Now you know that is not about to happen.”
I know. Because, it would be impossible for you to show that you finished any grade above 3rd.
#13: “I mean if they are so innocent, what’s the problem?”
The problem is that that’s not how it works. Quite the opposite: if they’re so guilty, what’s the problem? If not, they need to be “unleashed” on the rest of us.
I think the main issue should be to get back to the rule of law. Give the two men fair trials, trusting a jury to know what the men deserve under the law.
And close Gitmo for what it represents, the seizure of possible enemies in secret, by kidnap rather than by public arrest.
If America loses the rule of law, that loss would be a greater tragedy than 9/11 was. Not just for Americans, but for a world that once looked to us as proof that rule of law was possible.
#18 Tippis
>>they need to be “unleashed” on the rest of us.
So can we assume that you are getting a place ready at your home to take a few in?
# 19 lamberew said, “If America loses the rule of law, that loss would be a greater tragedy than 9/11 was. ”
Actually, the rule of law has been maintained much better by the Bush admin than it was by the FDR Admin (the prior attack on the US). The country survived FDRs shredding of the Constitution (which was FAR more extensive) and it survived Bush.
Keep it open and put Bush & Co. in it. The families are idiots. Most of those in Gitmo have nothing to do with 9/11. We have SuperMax for those who did.
6)
“if people are caught attacking our military”
Isn’t this one of the primary reasons for your “right to keep and bear arms”?
For the voice of sanity.
First, #12 Fusion. Are you serious?
http://tinyurl.com/Return-to-terrorism
So I ask all of you this. Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, THE mastermind of 911, cannot be tried because he was waterboarded, thereby making his confessions inadmissible.
So we have to let him go, CERTAIN that he will kill again?
#22 Thomas Paine
>>The families are idiots.
Keep that frame of thought and you will be nominated for the Nobel Prize. This will place you in appropriate company with the likes of Yasser Arafat. You remember him don’t you – the infamous bugger of boys.
@#19:
I just watched documentary about Okinawa invasion in WWII. American soldiers talked about the treatment they gave to prisoners of war who were official identifiable members of Japanese army and literally deserving Geneva Convention treatment (no unruly Gitmo combatants). Long story short: they tortured them as much as they could for info. Once done, they were tied and either shot in the head or their throat cut. Not one or two, 90% + of all captured Japanese army members. Lost rule of law? Yes. Ever heard of war crimes outcries or prosecution of MacArthur or Truman (or any of the soldiers)? No. Because nitpickings of the law are lost in the war and the winner dictates resolution.
Western front was no less brutal. More in comparison with the modern terrorists, though. There were organized Nazi terrorists in after-WWII Germany. Official policy on their capture: execute on the spot either by shooting or hanging. Similar levels of proof as for “Gitmoans”. Again no protest in public or World at large or prosecutions. Because people understood who/what we were fighting and were not detached liberal minds living in the isolated bubble. War is not civilized action. It is necessary brutality and the winner is (and always was) allowed quite a margin of error. So, if closing Gitmo the only sane option is to line them all up and execute.
So, to expound further for a moment. Khalid Sheikh Mohammed is one very, very bad guy. He has the intelligence, wealth, and dedication to hurt a lot of people.
“Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was a member of Osama bin Laden’s al-Qaeda organization, although he lived in Kuwait rather than Afghanistan, heading al-Qaeda’s propaganda operations from sometime around 1999. According to the 9/11 Commission Report he was “the principal architect of the 9/11 attacks”. He is also thought to have had, or has confessed to, a role in many of the most significant terrorist plots over the last twenty years, including the World Trade Center 1993 bombings, the Operation Bojinka plot, an aborted 2002 attack on Los Angeles’ U.S. Bank Tower, the Bali nightclub bombings, the failed bombing of American Airlines Flight 63, the Millennium Plot, and the murder of Daniel Pearl.”
http://tinyurl.com/2nahlw
Let this guy go and he will kill again.
As for me, it’s ok if I do something and die for my principles, but it’s not ok to do something and let others die for my principles. Like release Khalid Sheikh Mohammed so I can feel good about myself and my holier than thou-ness while others die.
First of all stop taking prisoners. If these people are a clear and present danger to the US, they should disappear quietly. It’s the only logical end to this fiasco. It’s not inhumane, rather very human. Don’t believe it, read some history.
26,
Mankind generally does not like to go backwards to a less lawless time… Except for Americans it seems.
27,
Unfortunately, you opened the can of worms WITH torture. Which is stupid. It’s akin to playing with a knife and cutting yourself and claiming “well, what ELSE was I supposed to do with the knife!”
#21, Cow-Paddy,
There you go again. Throwing out attacks on others with no basis. Why not claim that Andrew Jackson’s actions also were illegal? Or Hayes, or Nixon?
The facts remain, under Bush, hundreds of men were kidnapped in Afghanistan and forcibly brought to Guantanamo. The reports are that all of them were tortured, before, during transport, and after arriving. Only a handful have been tried and after six years, many still have not had any charges brought against them. It has only been recently that they have even been allowed to speak with lawyers.
Acceptance of that is in keeping with your constant trolling. That though, only explains why you are un-American.