A reminder as to who is actually behind the mess we are in. Curiously you never see or hear this stuff anywhere and only occasionally on FOX.
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Mustard:
“When I see the shit they pump out on Faux Spews, it almost makes me want to become a gun control nut.”
LOL! That made my day. Thanks!
# 64 Mister Mustard said, “Do you have a problem with the somewhat harsher punishment for Dumbya, given the severity of his crimes?”
Nope
#65 – Bobbo
Wtf are you talking about? What “opinion” did I fail to back up?
As to Barney Frank, eh. I think he’s less malignant than some, more malignant than others. I wasn’t a big fan of his even before the Mae/ Mac mess. If he were representing my Congressional district, I’d give his competition a good look.
As to him being single-handedly responsible for(or even holding a majority stake in) the mess our country is in now is just silly.
**Both sides..I said both sides son, were to blame as well as the banks.
Take it back to the Clinton administration when the pushed for more low income home ownership. The established the sub-prime mortgages. Yes these are adjustable but not all adjustable mortgages are evil. The lenders were also at fault for telling mostly uneducated (as to the mortgage world) buyers they could afford more home than they originally thought never cluing them in to the bombshell that awaited. These payments ballooned and buyers couldn’t pay the note. Banks then in turn packages these bad mortgages with good ones and sold these as investments to banks. Mr Franks said there was nothing wrong with the FMs. He was also one of the biggest complainers that the Bush administration didn’t do enough to prevent this. Blame is abundant enough to go around several times. No one group is solely to blame but spend more time blaming the others than they do trying to fix the problem.
#68–pedro==a great compliment, thank you. Still, I think you would agree that “not a blind liberal” is still a liberal and therefor use of “all” liberals is over broad. So simple to admit to the error, yet you don’t do it. Likewise, other intelligent posters fail to admit to simple error==Mustard, Dvorak. There is a kind of “blindness” going on, its not restricted to Tex Ass.
So is Mustards constant refrain of everyone blaming only Barney Frank for the subprime mess when NO ONE is doing that.
You see the dangers of thinking like a zealot? Subtlety is lost. Just like calling Hitler without explanation==misses the subtlety of what is still alive and being discussed. Much better to inject a comment to re-energize the discussion in t he right direction, if such a thing there be.
I’m against lazy zealotry even from people I admire, even when it agrees with me.
Bobbo, ‘dro, & Ah Yea,
I keep seeing Barney Frank being referred to as responsible for the “Sub-Prime mess”. Please, could someone give some reference and citation to show his responsibility. And I don’t mean linking to some hack job video.
Ah Yea,
If you have a comment then make it. Linking to asswipe videos does nothing and I won’t waste my time with them. Post YOUR thoughts. Cite facts, not opinionated bullshit. I know you are better than that.
AlGoreLeonia
I see Jimy Heel and f*ckedup has decided to post under a new handle. Whoa, a novel way to avoid all that negativity you garner each time.
It doesn’t change the fact you are a troll.
#74–Fusion==if I provide a link that indicates “some” responsibility on Barney’s part, will you spend the entire post calling me an “effen idiot” or will you promise to at least make a passing reference to specific issue being discussed?
#73 – Bobbo
>>Likewise, other intelligent posters fail to
>>admit to simple error==Mustard, Dvorak.
You’er becoming incoherent. What error did I fail to admit to?
And I know you love to play with punctuation like a baby with Play-Doh, but please try to pull yourself together on occasion. When I see my name on the far side of a double equals sign with John C Dvorak, I’d be interested in having the equation translated into Earthling Speak.
>>So is Mustards constant refrain of everyone
>>blaming only Barney Frank for the subprime
>>mess when NO ONE is doing that.
Whoa! Chill out, Bobbolina! Have a Cosmo and a little weed! Where is my “constant refrain of everyone blaming Barney Frank”? I’m not blaming him, so obviously not EVERYONE is doing that. As to other, read some of the posts. Read, if you will, the heading to this entire topic: “A reminder as to who is actually behind the mess we are in. Curiously you never see or hear this stuff anywhere and only occasionally on FOX.”, with Barney Frank’s face in the graphic. I haven’t seen John C Dvorak devolve into unintelligible gibberish yet, so I take that to mean that HE is blaming Barney Frank, with many of the usual neocons following suit.
I want blame identified and hopefully action taken upon them legally. It’s a lot of money for mistakes these idiots have risked. I don’t are if you’re Rep or Dem, someone has to answer for this catastrophe IMO. If you can afford to shell your money for these people then fine don’t respond. I for one absolutely hate it.
#52, Cow-Paddy,
Yep, 2 years overseeing the criminal actions, all the while telling the public all is well.
Don’t you mean two years of being led astray by the Bush Administrations and CEOs? How many of them appeared before Congress saying there were problems? Gee, it seems to me that they were all telling us how great the economy was.
I realize you aren’t too bright and don’t have a good grasp on how the Federal Government works. I’ll try to explain it briefly.
The Congress makes the laws. The Executive Branch(AKA the White House or the Administration) is responsible for executing the laws passed by Congress. Under their oversight responsibility, Congress regularly receives reports from the Administration detailing how their department(s) and the law is performing.
While Congress may hold hearings at any time, most are routinely held to get updates from those who know and understand the system best, the Administration. During most of the Bush Administration the Congress was routinely rebuffed when it demanded testimony and documents from the Administration Other testimony has been shown to less than truthful.
So unless you can show that Barney Frank was in possession of documentation that the economy was in the condition it was in then it is just plain silly to accuse him of criminal activity.
But then reasoned thought has never been your forte’.
#78–Mustard==
1. Regarding admitting to error. I have made 3-4 requests for you to do so and you have refused every time. Thats not the whole universe but I have never seen you do it. If you can come up with an exception, that is what it would be.
2. Punctuation. Actually you are right. Dvorak has admitted to errors in posting headlines and what not. I overstated that one. I made a mistake. Sorry John–I was assuming your usual lack of engagement as a continuing argument you were right to call Hitler rather than do something just a bit more. Again==I made a mistake.
3. Mustard regarding Barney==you reversed the argument and have it wrong. Your post #44–“Let’s take something that’s the fault of a lot of people (most of them Repubs) and blame it all on Barney Frank.” /// No one did that.
#80 – Mr. Fusion
You may know more about how the Federal government works than Paddy-RAMBO, but I’ll bet he can kick your ass when it comes to arranging statuettes on Condi’s desk.
This is as if Barney Frank and Dodd had said in early 2003 that there were no WMD in Iraq, and the Republicans then said that Bush was right, and there is no proof that he was wrong.
#82, Mustard,
That and stocking shelves at Radio Shack.
#81 – Bobbo
You’re getting tiressome, and it’s getting to the point where it stops being worth my while to get out the decoder ring and try to figure out what you’re saying.
I’ll give it one more shot, though.
>>I have made 3-4 requests for you to do so
>>and you have refused every time.
Could you refresh my memory? I’m sorry if I’m not going to admit that I failed to admit that I was wrong on something you thought I was wrong about last summer.
>>2.
It’s too much work to figure out what you’re saying there, Bobster. If you can re-phrase the point, I’ll give it a shot.
>>Your post #44–”Let’s take something that’s
>>the fault of a lot of people (most of them
>>Repubs) and blame it all on Barney
>>Frank.” /// No one did that.
Do you forget what you’re criticizing me for within minutes of the criticism? Gol.
I never said there weren’t those who blamed it all on Barney Frank. I (and I quote) “Where is my “constant refrain of everyone blaming Barney Frank”? I’m not blaming him, so obviously not EVERYONE is doing that. , in response to your allegation (and I quote) “So is Mustards constant refrain of everyone blaming only Barney Frank for the subprime mess when NO ONE is doing that.”.
Read the caption under Frank’s picture up top. If anyone else is being blamed, I must have missed the subtle clue.
I have to laugh reading the posts defending one party or the other. Both are responsible for the current situations. I can not believe that you do not know this. Supporting the same people who allowed all of this is ludicrous. They count on your apathy to stay in government. Go outside the 2 party box, find some intelligent people and bring government back to serving the people. Bobbo is right- vote them out. Or Not…..
Apathy
Mustard–I agree I’m not interested “enough” to straighten out the confusion and I would accept it is all on my side.
Re Dvoraks caption “who is really behind the mess” may be overstated==but the notion that Barney Franks role is being mostly ignored is right on target.
So, Dvorak has an excuse to exaggerate as he trolls to enflame idiots like us===but whats our excuse?
#89, bobbo,
but the notion that Barney Franks role is being mostly ignored is right on target.
What role was that?
In an Oval Office meeting on March 17, however, Mr. Paulson … wanted to use the troubled companies Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac) to unlock the frozen credit market by allowing Fannie and Freddie to buy more mortgage-backed securities from overburdened banks. To that end, Mr. Lockhart’s office planned to lift restraints on the companies’ huge portfolios
…
Mr. Paulson told Mr. Bush the companies would shore themselves up later by raising more capital.
“Can they?” Mr. Bush asked.
“We’re hoping so,” the Treasury secretary replied.
That turned out to be incorrect, and did not surprise Mr. Thomas, the Bush economic adviser. Throughout that spring and summer, he warned the White House and Treasury that, in the stark words of one e-mail message, “Freddie Mac is in trouble.” And Mr. Lockhart, he charged, was allowing the company to cover up its insolvency with dubious accounting maneuvers.
But Mr. Lockhart (Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac regulator) continued to offer reassurances. In a July appearance on CNBC, he declared that the companies were well managed and “worsts were not coming to worst.” An infuriated Mr. Thomas sent a fresh round of e-mail messages accusing Mr. Lockhart of “pimping for the stock prices of the undercapitalized firms he regulates.”
Mr. Lockhart defended himself, insisting in an interview that he was aware of the companies’ vulnerabilities, but did not want to rattle markets.
“A regulator,” he said, “does not air dirty laundry in public.”
But the right wing nuts still want to blame Barney Frank.
#91, NOTE to self
I missed. The link is here.
#50 Jeebers. That is an excellent link!
I learned quite a lot. In particular, I learned that Bush is an even greater idiot than I thought and that takes quite some doing!!!
#91, Another NOTE to self,
I missed a tag. The last four paragraphs should have been.
…
But Mr. Lockhart (the Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac regulator) continued to offer reassurances. In a July appearance on CNBC, he declared that the companies were well managed and “worsts were not coming to worst.” An infuriated Mr. Thomas sent a fresh round of e-mail messages accusing Mr. Lockhart of “pimping for the stock prices of the undercapitalized firms he regulates.”
Mr. Lockhart defended himself, insisting in an interview that he was aware of the companies’ vulnerabilities, but did not want to rattle markets.
“A regulator,” he said, “does not air dirty laundry in public.”
But the right wing nuts still want to blame Barney Frank.
Barney acted against regulation:
http://taxfoundation.org/blog/show/23617.html
#95, bobbo,
Let’s look at that.
So where is his “error”. What crises was there at Freddie and Fannie? Don’t just say there was, tell me what was the crises?
Mr. Bush did foresee the danger posed by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the government-sponsored mortgage finance giants. The president spent years pushing a recalcitrant Congress to toughen regulation of the companies, but was unwilling to compromise when his former Treasury secretary wanted to cut a deal. And the regulator Mr. Bush chose to oversee them — an old prep school buddy — pronounced the companies sound even as they headed toward insolvency.
This was before Fannie and Freddie had started picking up serious amounts of “toxic debt”. They apparently assumed this debt from banks simply because of pressure from the Administration.
You also want to ignore that the proposed regulation was actual a relaxing of oversight and to be handled by the Treasury Department.
#89 – Bobbo
>>but the notion that Barney Franks role is
>>being mostly ignored is right on target.
It is? By whom?
I’ve been hearing people on the left, the right, and in the middle bitching about Frank since this whole sore started oozing.
If you look on The Google, there are about 500,000 hits on “Barney Frank Housing Crisis”, many of them in the New York Times and their lesbian lover, the Boston Globe.
You’re right, they don’t generally put together a mash-up of clips designed to vilify Frank like Faux Spews does, but that’s not what real news organizations do.
The wingnuts have had it in for Franks all along, as he’s an ass bandit. When this housing shit came along, it was a godsend for them. Not neccesary any longer to make sniggering allusions to the mechanical details of his sexual behavior; they could pillory him for his role in allowing the housing bubble to burst.
#96–Fusion==the buck does not stop at Barney Frank but a lot of loose change does. He is a congressional leader with years of responsibility to avoid exactly what did happen. He failed to stop what happened, failed to raise the alarm.
I can only do the google to find material closer to what might satisfy your agenda. Thankfully, I only need to satisfy my own:
VOTE ALL THE INCUMBENTS OUT OF OFFICE.
#98 – Bobo
>>VOTE ALL THE INCUMBENTS OUT OF OFFICE.
Why?
I’m quite happy with the way my Congressman is handling things, my Senators are CERTAINLY doing a better job than their competition; the one who was up for re-election this year ran against a guy in the primary who would be better suited working at Adult Toy World. I’m pretty happy with my mayor (even though he’s a Repug), and the Governor is servicable; certainly more so than his non-incumbant opponent. Why would I want to get rid of them in the first place, and why in particular would I want to vote them out for inferior candidate, for no reason other than that the replacements have less hand-on knowledge than the incumbents?
#98, bobbo,
VOTE ALL THE INCUMBENTS OUT OF OFFICE.
That is your agenda.
BUT, it doesn’t answer the question I asked “What was the crises at Fanny Mae and Freddie Mac that warranted changing their oversight to Treasury in 2002? We now know that at this time Freddie and Fannie had not been picking up the “Toxic Paper”.
You like to pressure Mustard to answer irrelevant questions, well here is a relevant question you brought up. Please answer, “what was the effen crises” ?!?!?!
He failed to stop what happened, failed to raise the alarm.
What ??? He was the ranking member. His party is in the minority. He didn’t have the power to decide how often the toilet paper was changed, how the eff is he responsible for stopping a bill in the House?
Geeze, you’re acting like Cow-Paddy here.
The sub-prime meltdown was simply the trigger initiating a meltdown of a financial and investment system that was and is corrupt to the core, something that becomes much more obvious when the situation becomes desperate and the cockroaches have to scurry into the light.
#99, Mustard,
Good comment. I’m of a like mind. Our Senators, Dem. and Rep. are both very competent and hard working. I’m less enamored with our Dem. Congressman, but he is just starting his second term. I don’t like our Rep. Governor but I am vastly outnumbered on that one. Our State Houses are split between the parties and thus often deadlocked. Many local Rep. representatives were tossed and replaced by inexperienced Dems.
But vote them all out? Ya right !!! /Sarcasm.