Odd how conservatives who rant about America becoming socialistic have no problem signing up for government run SS. What, you didn’t plan for your retirement properly and have to depend on others? Why should I, a hard working, self sufficient person, pay for you?
The Social Security Administration, bracing for the coming eligibility of 80 million baby boomers, is introducing an online application that will allow people to apply for retirement benefits in as little as 15 minutes.
Social Security Commissioner Michael J. Astrue said in an interview the agency was completely overhauling its electronic services in recognition of the greater computer skills of future Social Security recipients and the need to more efficiently process the coming flood of applications.
“We just don’t have the infrastructure to handle that workload in the traditional fashion,” he said.
Astrue said a person who now goes to a Social Security office to apply spends about 45 minutes consulting with a field officer.
The agency says that over the next 20 years some 10,000 people a day will become eligible for retirement.
[…]
Those wanting to use the new program can go to http://socialsecurity.gov and click on “Filing Online for Retirement Benefits.”
[Suggestion: Unlike some commenters, before making an embarrassing rant that I am wrong and your lifetime of payments into SS pay for your benefits, please do some research. — UD]
#64 – LiLo
>>The government’s “job” is to provide the
>>means to prevent your rights from being
>>infringed upon by ol’ moondawg over there.
What, for pussies who can’t protect themselves? I’da thunk a guy with so many rifles and cans of tuna buried in the yard would be capable of protecting himself against an army of moodawgs!
And no schools, no highways, no military, no police, private elections? Sheesh.
What’s your perfect society? You playing Mad Max Rockatansky somewhere out beyond Thunderome?
I’ll take my chances with moondawg; I want the government to do things for me and my fellow citizens that we can’t reasonably be expected to do for ourselves.
Just like they’re supposed to.
# 65 Mister Mustard said, “I want the government to do things for me and my fellow citizens that we can’t reasonably be expected to do for ourselves. ”
Translation:
I want the gov’t to steal money from my neighbors wallet and give it to me because I don’t want to get shot doing it myself.
Fixed
#66 – Paddy-RAMBO
Do your comments EVER make any sense, Paddy-RAMBO? I haven’t seen a sensible thing come out of your keyboard in a dog’s age.
Nobody’s “stealing money from my neighbor’s wallet” with SS. It’s coming out of my own wallet, and when I retire, going back into my own wallet.
Splash some cold water on your face, will you?
Or if you’re suggesting that the government should not be involved in military and police protection, building key infrastructure like highways, providing public education, etc., well. WTF. You might consider moving to Somalia or somewhere, and make that dream come true.
# 67 Mister Mustard said, “Nobody’s “stealing money from my neighbor’s wallet””
Sure they are.
1: It isn’t a voluntary program. If you don’t pay you WILL go to jail.
2: If you draw more than you put in you, are using others money.
Pretty simple, even for you.
#62 – Gadgetenvy
>>Our parents all drew or are drawing on SS
>>now and we feel that is our benefit from
>>paying in.
That makes no sense. The parents payed in, the parent drew out. You pay in, but you’re not going to draw out?
I’d be as likely to give away my 401(k) or investment accounts as pass up money that I have put in.
I’m a saver too, and I have a retirement fund, but wtf? If I never avail myself of the retirement funds (including SS) after retiring, what’s the point of having them in the first place?
Paddy-Zero and other repuglican f&cktards–does society “owe” anything to its citizenry as a result of a majority vote in congress to provide certain services, or is it the minority wealthiest few who have rigged all the regulations to make and keep them wealthy that deserve all the benefits of a free society?
# 70 bobbo said, “society “owe” anything to its citizenry as a result of a majority vote in congress to provide certain services”
Do you mean should the majority be able to, via the legislature, order the forcible theft of private property and money from an opposed minority without recompense?
No.
#61,
>>It’s better than hoping the government will
>>support them.
Why’s that? It’s the government’s job to do that.
Show me in the Constitution where it says that.
I want the government to do things for me and my fellow citizens that we can’t reasonably be expected to do for ourselves.
What a whiner. Instead of assuming people can’t do for themselves, why not make them do for themselves? Bill Clinton did in the 90s and the average wage went up. He cut the welfare roles by 50%!
Here is where we are headed with all of this government help
To All My Valued Employees,
There have been some rumblings around the office about the future of this company, and more specifically, your job. As you know, the economy has changed for the worse and presents many challenges. However, the good news is this:
The economy doesn’t pose a threat to your job. What does threaten your job however, is the changing political landscape in this country. However, let me tell you some little tidbits of fact which might help you decide what is in your best interests.
First, while it is easy to spew rhetoric that casts employers against employees, you have to understand that for every business owner there is a back story. This back story is often neglected and overshadowed by what you see and hear. Sure, you see me park my Mercedes outside. You’ve seen my big home at last year’s Christmas party. I’m sure all these flashy icons of luxury conjure up some idealized thoughts about my life. However, what you don’t see is the back story.
I started this company 28 years ago. At that time, I lived in a 300 square foot studio apartment for 3 years. My entire living apartment was converted into an office so I could put forth 100% effort into building a company, which by the way, would eventually employ you.
My diet consisted of Ramen Pride noodles because every dollar I spent went back into this company. I drove a rusty Toyota Corolla with a defective transmission. I didn’t have time to date. Often times, I stayed home on weekends, while my friends went out drinking and partying. In fact, I was married to my business — hard work, discipline, and sacrifice.
Meanwhile, my friends got jobs. They worked 40 hours a week and made a modest $50K a year and spent every dime they earned. They drove flashy cars and lived in expensive homes and wore fancy designer clothes. Instead of hitting the Nordstrom’s for the latest hot fashion item, I was trolling through the discount store extracting any clothing item that didn’t look like it was birthed in the 70’s. My friends refinanced their mortgages and lived a life of luxury. I, however, did not. I put my time, my money, and my life into a business with a vision that eventually, some day, I too, would be able to afford these luxuries my friends supposedly had.
So, while you physically arrive at the office at 9am, mentally check in at about noon, and then leave at 5pm, I don’t. There is no “off” button for me. When you leave the office, you are done and you have a weekend all to yourself. I unfortunately do not have the freedom. I live, eat and breathe this company every minute of the day. There is no rest. There is no weekend. There is no happy hour. Every day this business is attached to my hip like a 1 year old special-needs child. You, of course, only see the fruits of those efforts—the nice house, the Mercedes, the vacations… you never realize the back story and the sacrifices I’ve made.
Now, the economy is falling apart and I, the guy that made all the right decisions and saved his money, have to bail-out all the people who didn’t. The people that overspent their paychecks suddenly feel entitled to the same luxuries that I earned and sacrificed a decade of my life for.
Yes, business ownership has its benefits, but the price I’ve paid is steep and not without wounds. Unfortunately, the cost of running this business, and employing you, is starting to eclipse the threshold of marginal benefit and let me tell you why:
I am being taxed to death and the government thinks I don’t pay enough. I have state taxes. Federal taxes. Property taxes. Sales and use taxes. Payroll taxes. Workers compensation taxes. Unemployment taxes. Taxes on taxes. I have to hire a tax man to manage all these taxes and then guess what? I have to pay taxes for employing him. Government mandates and regulations and all the accounting that goes with it, now occupy most of my time. On Oct 15th, I wrote a check to the US Treasury for $288,000 for quarterly taxes. You know what my “stimulus” check was? Zero. Nada. Zilch.
The question I have is this: Who is stimulating the economy? Me, the guy who has provided 14 people good paying jobs and serves over 2,200,000 people per year with a flourishing business? Or, the single mother sitting at home pregnant with her fourth child waiting for her next welfare check? Obviously, government feels the latter is the economic stimulus of this country.
The fact is, if I deducted (or stole) 50% of your paycheck you’d quit and you wouldn’t work here. I mean, why should you? That’s nuts. Who wants to get rewarded only 50% of their hard work? Well, I agree which is why your job is in jeopardy.
Here is what many of you don’t understand … to stimulate the economy you need to stimulate what runs the economy. Had suddenly government mandated to me that I didn’t need to pay taxes, guess what? Instead of depositing that $288,000 into the Washington black-hole, I would have spent it, hired more employees, and generated substantial economic growth. My employees would have enjoyed the wealth of that tax cut in the form of promotions and better salaries.
When you have a comatose man on the verge of death, you don’t defibrillate and shock his thumb thinking that will bring him back to life, do you? Or, do you defibrillate his heart? Business is at the heart of America and always has been. To restart it, you must stimulate it, not kill it. Suddenly, the power brokers in Washington believe the poor of America are the essential drivers of the American economic engine. Nothing could be further from the truth and this is the type of change you can keep.
So where am I going with all this? It’s quite simple. If any new taxes are levied on me, or my company, my reaction will be swift and simple.
I fire you. I fire your co-workers. You can then plead with the government to pay for your mortgage, your SUV, and your child’s future. Frankly, it isn’t my problem anymore. Then, I will close this company down, move to another country, and retire. You see, I’m done. I’m done with a country that penalizes the productive and gives to the unproductive. My motivation to work and to provide jobs will be destroyed, and with it, will be my citizenship.
So, if you lose your job, it won’t be at the hands of the economy; it will be at the hands of a political hurricane that swept through this country, steamrolled the constitution, and will have changed its landscape forever. If that happens, you can find me sitting on a beach, retired, and with no employees to worry about.
Signed,
Your boss
#72 – LiLo
>>What a whiner. Instead of assuming people
>>can’t do for themselves, why not make them
>>do for themselves?
You mean like build interstate highways or create school programs? Are you daft?
If you’re talking about SS, they’re doing exactly what you want … DOING IT FOR THEMSELVES. They pay money in, they get money out.
People who try and portray SS as some kind of welfare-like entitlement program have their heads so far up their asses they won’t come out by the time they’re ready to retire.
EVERYONE agrees that saving for retirement is a good thing. Most people save money in 401(k) accounts or IRAs or stock investments. Shit happens, though. And money that was there yesterday might not be there today.
The only real issue at hand with the SS problem is should we allow the government (which may be bungling, but doesn’t have a vested interest in fucking the retiree) handle the safety net, or should we turn it over to somebody like Bernie Madoff, whose income goes UP in direct proportion to the amount of money he can skim off the top of your account? Or maybe create a paper scam like the real Bernie Madoff, and *poof*, all your money is gone?
It’s cold comfort if Bernie spends the rest of his life in jail, while you’re eating day-old bread and dumpster diving for clothes.
These chest-puffing blowhards with their “let ’em dangle” solutions are so blind, it would be funny if they didn’t take themselves seriously.
The idea of having tens of millions of elderly and disabled sleeping on steam grates and rummaging through restaurant trash cans for dinner seems to appeal to them.
Pffft.
#71–Paddy-Zero==typical rethug thinking. I got mine because I deserve it==the rest of you are on your own. Very short sighted and hard hearted to your own detriment. Premise for all kinds of “Twilight Zone” come-uppenances. You are even proud of it aren’t you? You and your whole party of robber barons.
#73–Mustard==SS is a welfare program. Any program that by design pays out more than it takes in is welfare. Simple truths should always be honored, otherwise you turn repuglican in your advocacy.
#73, Poison,
You mean like build interstate highways
You mean like Big Dig, Highway to Nowhere, and the other four dozen federal government sponsored bribe bills?
No thanks, don’t need my money paying for those.
or create school programs?
Like these?
The assistant principal who had students and teachers build a king-size bed for him in shop class. And the football coach who secretly had students sell donated T-shirts. And the cafeteria boss who investigators say stole hundreds of dollars worth of dessert cobblers from her school.
Or these?
http://tinyurl.com/76ea92
The problem with publicly funded education is that they are a monopoly. They have no competition. Doesn’t the federal government break up monopolies? Why aren’t they breaking these up and putting some competition into them?
The Department of Education was established in 1979 by President Jimmy Carter to improve education in our country. The department’s budget then was $14.5 billion. Today, its budget has grown sixfold. Yet over the same period of time there has been virtually zero change, on average, in test scores.
#70 – Bobo
>>SS is a welfare program. Any program that by
>>design pays out more than it takes in is
>>welfare.
You’re living up to your name, Bobo.
First of all, SS takes in more than it pays out. There are currently 3.3 workers paying into SS for every SS beneficiary. SS takes in more money every year than it pays out.
So, even by your home-made “definition”, SS is not welfare. At some point in the future, SS will begin paying out more than it takes in. Timing dependent upon whome you listen to. Unless the government raises taxes (not welfare then), lowers benefits (not welfare then), or comes up with some other strategy to increase the SS Trust Fund resources (still not welfare).
The second point is that your “definition” of “welfare” is absurd. According to that, virtually everything the government is “welfare”. The military, the police, highway construction, almost everything. Even by that definition, SS is less of a welfare program than just about anything else the government does; it currently takes in more than it pays out, and even when the tide shifts, it will be taking in SOMETHING. How much money do soldiers or policemen or teachers pay in to support their activities?
Sheesh. I know “everything is definitional”, but try to use some common sense, would you?
#75 – LiLo
Ah, you’re wasting my time.
Sure there are criminals and scam artists involved in ANY endeavor where money changes hands. Would you like a list of non-goverment rascals who have scammed people out of their money. Bernie Madoff didn’t work for the government. The predatory bankers who wrapped their shady dealings in a shroud of mysterious collateralized debt obligations and credit default swaps didn’t work for the government. The savings & loan guys who were supposed to cause the collaps of the US economy didn’t work for the government (although Sliverado Savings & Loan, one of the major culprits, WAS run by Dumbya’s brother)
As to competition of public schools, there’s plenty of that. Anyone who can afford $25,000/yr to send their kid to kindergarten can avail themselves of that competitor. Or, if they don’t want their kids to learn about natural selection, they can always home school.
What are you lobbying for, anyway? Anarchy? Each and every one of us on our own? Try Somalia. You’ll like it!
I still can not figure that over 1/2 those born in the 40’s-50’s, SURVIVED..
from the pollution, contaminations, 2 wars, accidents, killings, murders, accidents, floods, earthquakes, Jim Jones, Helter skelter, fast cars….
And to think that MOST of them are in congress and representatives, TRYING TO RUN OUR LIVES
Musty–cash accounting is for street beggars and ponzi scheme operators. Real business uses the accrual basis of accounting==matching revenue with obligations.
We all know the story of the first recipient of SS. Lady made one payment into SS, retired, and collected for umpty-ump years.
The system is designed for the great majority of people to pay into SS and draw out much more than they put in.
On an accrual basis, the fund is Bankrupt today. On the Ponzi Scheme Basis of cash or current receipts vs current liabilities SS is making its own way while the accrual hole beneath the whole house of cards gets bigger, deeper, and closer to the surface.
Welfare: 2 a: aid in the form of money or necessities for those in need. /// The fact that some/most recipients pay into it doesn’t make it an investment vehicle now does it?
#79 – Bobo
>>cash accounting is for street beggars and
>>ponzi scheme operators. Real business uses
>>the accrual basis of accounting
Well gosh, Bobo. Maybe I’m just a poor old country boy, but when my lemonade stand is bringing in more than I’m spending, that’s a good thing. Kinda hard to Ponzify that accounting.
Your accrual basis of accounting seems promising, but gosh, aren’t there a lot of smoke and mirrors involved? Aren’t assumptionss made, that may or may not be accurate? Doesn’t it allow for the kind of indigestible financial hocus pocus that lead to CDOs, credit default swaps, and other stuff nobody can understand, and which are leading to the collapse of the US financial market?
I think I’ll stick with the lemonade stand for now. And even folks who do your fancy-dan accrual accounting agree that the SS Trust Fund is going to be heading further into the black for at least another decade.
>>The system is designed for the great
>>majority of people to pay into SS and draw
>>out much more than they put in.
It was designed that way? Well gawrsh! Doesn’t sound like Bismarck and Roosevelt were very smart fellas! And I’d like to see your evidence that people have been taking out far more than they paid in.
You’re not going to pull a ‘tempt on me now, are ya?
>>Welfare: 2 ///
Could you have someone who speaks English as a native language re-phrase that, please? Between your punctuation and your twisted syntax (in the second part), I’m afraid I have no idea wtf you’re trying to say.
This is in response to Unlce Dave’s silly notes before and after the article
Most people undertand that they aren’t getting “their own” money back from SS. However, this insinuation that they’re selfishly taking money from other people is more than a little disingenuous.
First of all, your contributions are non-voluntary.
Second, here’s the best analogy I can think of for your implication that conservatives should refuse to accept SS payments:
You’re in a bar for a while. You’ve purchased several rounds for the group. Then, someone else announces they’ll pick up the next round. Should you refuse to partake on the grounds that you’re not paying for that round, even though you’ve already paid for several rounds for everyone else?
-Zirbert
http://zirbert.blogspot.com
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Security_debate_(United_States)
#81–Zirbert==you say: “However, this insinuation that they’re selfishly taking money from other people is more than a little disingenuous.” //// If you pay in X dollars and take out X+Y dollars, its a matter of characterization and bigoted class warfare politics to call in “selfish” just as it is equally self centered to call it “earned.” I think using the term disingenuous doesn’t fit either sides valid position.
#82 – Bobbo
WordPress fucked up your link again. I think dvorak dot org slash blog should go back to the previous version, just as many discrimintating computer users choose to go back to XP after having sampled Vista.
From the link, however, I note that
*Payroll taxes will only cover 78% of the scheduled payout amounts after 2041. This declines to 75% by 2081.”
Yep, in 72 years, that’s going to be a welfare program alrighty. We better start a discussion of reforming Social Security. Oh, wait. We already ARE having that discussion, and have been doing so for years. Now that Dumbya’s stupid “privatization” plan has been tossed in the dump, maybe we can have an intelligent discussion about what to do.
Mustard–the link works for me. Looks like we need multiple browsers to get all the benefits from DU.
Simple Math: Why does the SS Trust Fund go bankrupt even by your definition in 72 years? Because people are drawing out more money than they put in.==ie, welfare.
In accrual accounting–if you matchup your assets to your liabilities and see that you will be dead flat broke in 72 years, by definition, you are bankrupt. Note: “an act of Bankruptcy” has not been committed which is what many people actually think of.
Still, it was fun to read some of the SS sites out there. Confusing to me how they continuously shift between treating the SS Trust Fund as an asset or a liability. Peoples’ eyes glaze over at that sort of thing==all as designed by congress.
VOTE ALL INCUMBENTS OUT OF OFFICE.
#85 – Bobbo
>>The link works fine for me
I don’t see how that can be. The “(United_States)” part of the link is not highlighted in Firefox, Chrome, or IE. If you cut and paste it, it works, but that kind of defeats the whole purpose of hyperlinking, doesn’t it?
>>Because people are drawing out more money
>>than they put in.==ie, welfare.
No no, Bobbo. For simple math, you seem to be having great difficulty with it. People right now (and since its inception) pay more IN than they take out. As to what will happen in 72 years, I readily grant that will become a “welfare” situation. That damned Roosevelt didn’t predict WWII and the ensuing heteroerotic love fest that followed, so he could not no that the number of people retiring and living long, combined with the later availability of birth control and absence of heteroerotic love fests, would swamp the system.
That’s why the country needs to have an intelligent discussion about what to do.
>>In accrual accounting
Yes, even though I much prefer my lemonade-style accounting practices, I’m well aware of what is done in accrual accounting. And it involves predictions, prognistications, and the ability to tell the future. That didn’t work out too well for Roosevelt now, did it? It seems a little pointless to say something is “bankrupt” right now, when there’s actually over $2,000,000,000.00 in it. And how about if we do the reverse, and I predict that I’m filthy rich right now, based on imagined raises, good budgeting, no catastrophic health issues, etc. Are you going to give me a loan based on me being “wealthy” right now, even though my checking account is overdrawn? Hmmm?
>>VOTE ALL INCUMBENTS OUT OF OFFICE.
And replace them with whom? Have you anyone in mind? Anyone got a great solution to the SS crisis that is being ignored by the liberal-biased drive-by media?
Or is your solution to throw the baby out with the bathwater, hoping against hope that some straggler orphans you pick up on the street corner will be better than the babies you just threw out?
Mustard–re the 2Billion–theres no there there. The lock box was raided and the contributions/assets were spent by Congress and replaced by IOU’s. In my accounting, these IOU’s are worth only the full faith and credit of the USA–ie, under Dumbya and the Trillions to Be misspent to avoid a worse depression: not much.
I looked at my own lifetime contributions to SS a few years ago, and caluculated my estimated pay out based on mere charted life expectancy and found I would be getting back 3 times what I paid in. My retirement is based on that comfortable bit of welfare. I don’t think my benefits will get cut except by the operation of inflation that I fully expect to experience.
Lets look at it this way Mustard: Why would a big pile of money called the SSTrust Fund not be stolen and mismanaged by Congress?
You are right that most “newbies” to Congress would do a very bad job. STill would be head and shoulders above the experienced con job we face everyday now.
#87 – Bobbo
>>In my accounting, these IOU’s are worth only
>>the full faith and credit of the USA.
Well gosh. If you really think the USA is going to default on its debt obligations, I don’t know what to say. I imagine that will come as quite a nasty shock to holders of treasuries, savings bonds, people who work for the government, not to mention China. They’re going to be pissed!!
And according to your calculations, my bank is bankrupt. If every account holder lined up at the teller window today and demanded cash money for their entire deposit, I’m afraid the bank would be SOL. All they’ve got a IOUs and ephemeral promissory notes, and probably enough cash on hand to get them through a normal day with a little stashed in the vault as a safety measure.
>>I looked at my own lifetime contributions to
>>SS a few years ago .. and found I would be
>>getting back 3 times what I paid in.
Hm. Interesting. I came up with somewhat different results. I have been maxing out the SS deduction for over 20 years, and (given the puny $SS maximum monthly payout) I’m going to live to a ripe old age to do that. And if you include the matching funds my employers have contributed, fageddaboudit.
>>STill would be head and shoulders above the
>>experienced con job we face everyday now.
Or so you’d like to think. There you go again, with that accrual-based accounting. People who are inclined to be dishonest are usually well experienced in that art. What they will NOT know how to do is perform the tasks that are expected of them.
#81: They are silly because based on some of the comments, there are a number of people who don’t know.
Very amusing. I imagine when Social Security began they planned it out as carefully as they could. Of course once established politicians have abused it over and over again. First by expanding social services to gain votes and second by not securing it’s funding properly also to gain votes by not raising taxes. I imagine alot of people would agree with some of you. If you’re hard working and successful, why should you pay to help the less fortunate members of society. Lot’s of people that were successful and had excellent retirement plans last year are destitute this year through no fault of their own. If you’re lucky you can be smug and think it’s all thanks to you, or you can remember how lucky you are to be part of something bigger. If you can’t trust financial institutions for your retirement who can you trust?
I plan on living off my children.
#75,
Poison,
Sure there are criminals and scam artists involved in ANY endeavor where money changes hands.
There sure are but they don’t have a military to come in and put a gun to your head when you fail to pay.
If a company stops paying their social security taxes to the gov, guess what happens? They get raided by paramilitary police and everybody goes to jail.
As to competition of public schools, there’s plenty of that. Anyone who can afford $25,000/yr to send their kid to kindergarten can avail themselves of that competitor.
Ah, but you miss the point. If people had MORE MONEY in the pockets, they wouldn’t need to pay for private AND public education. By taking their money, you are effectively condemning them to using the public school system — unless they are rich.
Asking someone to pay for a public education system and saying, “if you don’t like it, pay for a private school” is like shooting someone and saying, “if you don’t like it, stop bleeding.”
re: anarchy
I have a question for you — How is it that Americans who lived hard scrabble lives 150 years ago could read, write, do math problems and quote at length from Shakespeare and the Bible, while today, in spite of “Sesame Street,” pre-school, Operation Head Start, computers and mind-numbing hours of homework, millions of youngsters entering college can do none of those things? It seems obvious to me that our education system, which costs us billions and billions of dollars, is a wreck.
Why is that?
I have no problem with locally controlled school districts. I have a problem with the federal government putting their noses in my local district because they seem to think they know better. What the hell does some bureaucrat in Washington D.C. know about how my school is run? They don’t.
Do you know how much money is spent on administrative costs to pass money from DC to the local level? 25%. Is that efficient? And do you think it is the “poor” districts getting the money? Hell, no. It is the rich ones because they can afford to pay their congressmen/senators more money to pork the money over.
Literacy Rate 1870 = 88%
1979 = 99%
http://social.jrank.org/pages/1024/How-Educated-are-We-Data-Presentation.html
I’m sure other websites will give different numbers all with the same result.
Looks like the only literacy you should concern yourself with is your own.
#92 – LiLo
>>They get raided by paramilitary police and
>>everybody goes to jail.
Oh poo. If you really think that way, no wonder you’re so scared of the government. Your statement is similar to saying “if you don’t put a quarter in the parking meeter, a paramilitary force takes you to jail”. Pffft.
According to 26 U.S.C. § 7202, those who knowingly fail to pay FICA or excise taxes are subject to a maximum $10,000 fine and/or no more than 5 years in jail. More likely, they’re subject to public embarassment, like Bernie Kerik, who withdrew from consideration as Dumbya’s head of Homeland Security when he was busted for not paying his illegal immigrant nanny’s Social Security taxes. Maybe if he had made an armed stand, the paramilitary forces might have been called in.
>>Ah, but you miss the point. If people had MORE
>>MONEY in the pockets, they wouldn’t need to pay
>>for private AND public education.
I doubt if there are many middle-class people for whom the taxes they pay make the difference between $25,000/yr private schools or kindegarten in el barrio. To assert that reducing taxes would allow people to pay out of their own pocket for government-provided services is absurd.
>>I have a problem with the federal government
>>putting their noses in my local district because
>>they seem to think they know better.
Me too. They should ensure that basic elements of education are included in the requirements for graduation (like learning in science class that Adam and Eve didn’t ride around on dinosaurs, and the earth is not 6000 years old), and then butt out.
>>I have a question for you —
I don’t have the answer to that question. I agree that our educational system seems to be going to heck in a handbasket. I don’t see any difference between private and public schools in that regard, and I’m not sure that financially starving public schools is going to fix that problem.
And of course the rich districts get all the money. Them that’s got shall get, them that’s not shall lose, so the Bible says, but it still is news…
So. How much would YOU like to pay in taxes? 0? Half of what you do now? Thirty-three and a third percent?