Should we always side with Israel? Is Israel always right?
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Let’s look at another question:
Should America ever side with Hamas, Hezbollah or Iran against Israel?
No but the other side (Hamas, Hezbollah, etc.) is so bent on genocide and revenge that anybody that sides with them is nuts.
I wish it wasn’t that bad.
I‘m sure there are some very nice people living in Gaza who deserve much better than they are getting but the homicidal maniacs run the place.
Time and time again these killers have snatched a better life from their own people but as long as the majority of their people support them I don’t see that anything can be done.
Should America side with Israel no matter what?
Certainly not.
If Israel is attacked by outside forces, I feel we should side with them as a defense issue. But if Israel attacks someone first, then no. Just like in grade school: if someone hits you first, then go ahead and pound the bully into the ground, but never, ever throw the first punch yourself.
My lame two cents.
#33–Oven==you don’t say. In the current dispute–who threw the first punch?
34,
As you said previously… Israel did. And it’s well documented too. Very well documented.
Et voila.
#34–named==the only way I can make sense of that statement is that you are going back to Israel’s founding. Even there you are wrong. Good Job.
With all the many well documented accounts of this first punch—care to provide just one? === and please, don’t post an article that has just the word “punch” in it without any further relevancy.
35–Oven==surely, you must know your own mind?
Since it is obvious to anyone with a brain that the Jews and the Muslims will NEVER play nice, and since their warring threatens the entire rest of the world,
Once again, I must say that the only workable solution is to neutron bomb the entire Middle East. Not pretty. Not nice. Not even particularly ethical, but very, very practical.
Oh, and then we can go in and suck up all the oil!
No Israel does what in the best for it and it only. the US could find itself on the wrong side of Israel one day than what.
Should America always side with Hamas no matter what?
Maybe in a Bush black and white world view.
Should America always side with Dvorak no matter what?
Yes!
I don’t support Israels genocide against innocent people but here’s a hotter Israeli female soldier: http://airbornecombatengineer.typepad.com/photos/eye_candy/maximidffemaleace.jpg
But Israel has great boobs!
America seems really bad at math.
How many Israelis are killed by some things that mostly are like bottle rockets, and how many NON Israeli are killed by artillery and hi-tech missiles, things the USA has mostly paid for.
Provocation form both sides are extreme, but let Israel grow up stand on its own.
Perhaps with a “brother” at the back, but don’t let the Israel brother smooch cash and support when he starts fist fights, hes got to learn some day the harsh reality of reaping what you sow.
I think the US should not support Israel when they exchange hundreds of prisoners for a few dead bodies. In that case we should complain about proportionality.
By the way, why doesn’t the left complain about Sri Lanka’s disproportionate use of force against the Tamil Tigers?
#37 – Lyin’ Mike
>>By the way, why doesn’t the left complain
>>about Sri Lanka’s disproportionate use of
>>force against the Tamil Tigers?
Because 30 countries (including India, the UK, the EU, Canada, the and the US) have classified the Tamil Tigers as a terrorist organization because of their crimes against humanity?
Israel is an ally of the U.S., so yeah let’s back them. The Israelis have done a spectacular, heroic and brilliant job of defending themselves against a horde of nasty enemies.
I think all aid to Israel should be paid in pig penises. And all support of Israel should be on pig penises. All communication with Israel should be in Morse code implemented by slapping them with pig penises. As allies go Israel sucks, which while Tony Blair was giving Bush a rim job was entertaining, in the long run it is not good policy.
38
*sigh*
It’s obvious you don’t know how to use a computer or read facts… But, I won’t hold it against you. I’ll be your research guy.
http://www.google.ca/search?q=israel+broke+ceasefire&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a
And, someone earlier said this..
Re-read the article though, at first blush, I do agree the virtual blockade of Gaza was tantamount to an act of war.
Who was that strange fellow? Why, it was bobbo! Bobbo, you have opinions. They may be wrong, they may be right, but, like you’re asshole, they’re not going anywhere. I figured you out. You are HIGHLY opinionated and HIGHLY frustrated. Knowledge is not something you seek, because you figured it ALL out a long time ago and now YOU are fighting against the “ignorant” plebs… the tainted historians…
As I said previously… I quoted someone who was a PART of founding and expanding Israel. He WROTE for Irgun until he realized that terrorism was not right. He himself said “You can’t talk to me about terrorism, I was a terrorist.” Think about that. For his country, he was a terrorist.
And you support that country.
Anyhoo… carry on. I suggest you start with a character assassination followed by a repudiation of the facts with hyperbole and “that’s the way the world is.” I suppose, if you are an American, you view the Constitution as the singular threat to government order and should be opposed at all costs.
51…
your, not you’re…
GOD DAMN ENGLISH!
#51–named==you make affirmative statements and then think it is a burden to provide them? Well, you’ll learn. Maybe you can learn to stop being so anal and reposting to correct typo errors. Can’t you notice you are the only one doing that?
So–the snipe hunt continues by your authoritative reference to any combination of 522,000 posts? Dope.
Well, I’ll just take the first one that appears and quote the first paragraph:
http://irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2008/1230/1230581467173.html?via=mr
“OPINION: IN JUNE, Israel agreed a six-month ceasefire with Hamas. Until December 27th, no Israeli, civilian or military, was killed as a result of rocket or mortar fire from Gaza.”
Now I know the Irish speak a form of English. I would think that they know that “ceasefire” does not mean “no one was killed as a result of rocket or mortar fire” is a flat out admission that Hamas had been actively violating the cease fire (Definition: no firing) for months.
I guess the Irish Times writes for good folks like you. If I thought you cared about facts, I’d track down the item I think I saw that 4 or 6 Israelis had been killed earlier==but thats not the point. Likewise, I’d like to get into the details of the blockade issues and what I think are independent issues arising therefrom. But if you think 3-4 rocket and mortar attacks per day for 18 months is honoring a cease fire–what good does reasoned discourse do? Same with your earlier request for confirmation of said attacks.
Whats sad is that you and I are interacting in a comparatively rational way compared to the real idiots, and we aren’t actually interacting much at all.
Am I the last person on earth who has not taken sides in this conflict?
I see victims and victimizers on both sides.
What I DON’T see so clearly, is why this conflict is America’s business.
Friggin’ limeys giving away Palestine as if it were there’s to give. Damage is done, Isreal exsist’s and won’t go away. They cannot be ignored. Still it’s about time the US picks it’s allies more carefully, all of our biggest mistakes in foreign policy come from thinking that the enemy of our enemy is our friend.
53,
QUOTE: #51–named==you make affirmative statements and then think it is a burden to provide them? Well, you’ll learn. Maybe you can learn to stop being so anal and reposting to correct typo errors. Can’t you notice you are the only one doing that?
Holy crap! I give you PAGES of links, which you like (2–named==you are an interesting guy. Unique point of view in posting. I like the fact you use links.) and then you complain that I’m “burdened” by providing them? You asked a question… You wanted proof of the first punch. I gave you pages of them. You complain that I’m complaining? Again… Holy crap!
And, please forgive me for trying to provide clear and concise statements. If I catch my English flubs, and I correct them, is that a negative statement on my character? I would think people would appreciate that yes, I made the typical English mistake (your, you’re, yore?) understand it, and corrected it in humourous way. And I didn’t blame the Queen for it, did I? Maybe I speak Irish…
You may THINK the Irish speak English, but I’m sure they might fight you on that point. In fact, I believe there is a form of Gallic that the Irish speak. But, I guess that’s just pedantism…
If you want English, go down a couple of links to the Guardian…. Or not. I’ll quote it here for you AND provide the link (since I know you like links). I guess, what I was thinking was that bobbo is an untainted historian, and he’ll pick, oh, say three links and synthesize the information instead of one that supports his own opinion. I was so wrong. Would you also like a link from some Israeli newspapers? Ask, and I’ll provide without the sigh.
“A four-month ceasefire between Israel and Palestinian militants in Gaza was in jeopardy today after Israeli troops killed six Hamas gunmen in a raid into the territory.
Hamas responded by firing a wave of rockets into southern Israel, although no one was injured. The violence represented the most serious break in a ceasefire agreed in mid-June, yet both sides suggested they wanted to return to atmosphere of calm.”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/nov/05/israelandthepalestinians
Notice how Hamas RESPONDED? And you never mentioned your own tacit admission that the total blockade of the Palestinians is an act of war…
Anyhoo… rinse and repeat… Character assassination followed by repudiation via hyperbole. You haven’t disappointed me yet! 🙂 I’m beginning to think you’re having a larf and / or are a 17 year old boy.
“Whats sad is that you and I are interacting in a comparatively rational way compared to the real idiots, and we aren’t actually interacting much at all.”
Idiots need more help than we do. Don’t become an idiot.
53…
I’m not leaving anything to chance!
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1038431.html
“. The shattering of the cease-fire – there is no more point in semantic squirming – is attributed to Israel’s blowing up a tunnel that probably was intended for Hamas to kidnap Israeli soldiers.”
#38:
Bobbo, it’s been back and forth since the days of Moses, has it not?
Scott in #15 summed it all up nicely, I think. I will need to go back and re-read history, starting with the British Mandate after World War I, the UN partitioning of Palestine, and Israeli independence in 1948, to determine who really threw the first punch.
#58–Oven==I did that a few years ago. Lots of websites on it. Its still kinda hard to figure out just what did happen. One of my “what if’s:” What if the Palestinians in the Partitioned areas did not get up and leave at the notions of “the Jews are coming?” Them that left became prisoners of the world. Them that stayed are doing relatively much better. What if they had all stayed?
History provides few “do-overs.”
Yes, the US should always take the side of racist fascist governments and Israel being one should not be excluded.
Yes, the US should always take the side of racist fascist governments and Israel should not be excluded.
Generally speaking, I say no. I don’t support Israel but on this case, I don’t blame them a bit for doing what they have done. They have a right to strike back against someone who’s been firing rockets at their citizens indiscriminately.
That being said, due to the nature of both sides this will never end as long as they remain religiously governed nations.
59,
Please… PLEASE stay focused. From the top… you asked who delivered the first punch. Israel. I gave you links to document it. Now we know that Israel delivered the first punch. Now you claim that Israel “”Israel’s blowing up a tunnel that probably was intended for Hamas to kidnap Israeli soldiers.” So–Hamas can launch rockets but Israel cannot blow up tunnels?” Hamas did NOT launch rockets until Israel started their tunnel blowing. Yes, you will say they are dismantling their “kidnap” tunnels. Israel could say anything they like about them, but it doesn’t allow an incursion into a foreign land. Unless, of course, you believe that the US was justified to invade Iraq on the pretext that Saddam was going to rain missiles on the US. That would imply that unilateral movements against accepted standards of conflict resolution are null and void. And in that case, you have no argument against anyone who starts any conflict over any reason… So, to close that one off… Israel attacked first and THEN there were Hamas rockets.
And, finally…
“By what understanding is building a kidnap tunnel not an act of war?” I don’t know what the hell you are implying there, since there is no PROOF that they are building kidnap tunnels. And if they ARE kidnap tunnels wouldn’t it be easier to just put, say, a huge gate on the Israeli side of the tunnel, grab a chair and some kebabs and relax? If I’m not mistaken a tunnel has an entrance and an exit. So, if the exit is in Israel, why go to Gaza to close it? Does that even make sense? Biut I guess I’ll just close it off by saying collective punishment and blockades ARE an act of war. Full stop.
Thanks and goodnight! Stay for the veal… Its delicious. Or, perhaps, the pork.
As a PS… I do appreciate your correction of my LINK. It was a link, but it was a link to an aggregate site. So, technically, it wasn’t a specific link. But, I was going for breadth AND depth.