Should we always side with Israel? Is Israel always right?
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Define: “side with”
Get Real with: “no matter what”
But, basically: yes until Israel takes out Iran for us since we don’t have the attention span or backbone to do it ourselves.
1,
Before we start again, read this article…
http://zope.gush-shalom.org/home/en/channels/avnery/1230937462
A very respectable figure involved in Israel from near the beginning…
And why would Israel attack Iran for the US? It’s meant to be the other way around.
Bobbo, But why? What the heck has Israel done for the US? Ever?
1,
And since you might not know who Uri is…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uri_Avnery
3,
Well, they almost destroyed the USS Liberty, didn’t they? Accidentally, of course.
No
Short answer, absolutely not.
Long answer, do you ALWAYS side with your partner, Mom, Dad, Boss, co-worker, whomever?
Nations and international politics (especially when distorted and/or controlled by religious zealots) are far too complex to say “always” and “forever”.
Lastly, take all the bibles and quarans and throw them in a big pile. Then light that pile on fire. Once that fire dies down, ask the “people” (not the politicians) to decide what is worth fighting for and why.
Nothing is worth killing children.
Double so when the whole mess is because of some old, tired, and faulty words on some page that someone says is the “holy writ of God.”
America’s broadest interests are aligned with Israel’s, going far beyond complimentary circumstance. There’s room on that flag, for another star.
7,
Whose flag?
I’ve heard from various religious figures in my life (pastors, people like that) that, in the Bible, it says that a great Western nation would aid the Jews (Israel) back to power, or something along those lines. Sorry, can’t quote it, but that’s the general premise.
Unfortunately, I think a lot of our politicians have a subconscious or maybe conscious motive to keep Israel in power for religious reasons, in addition to them being our only real ally in the area. I think religious reasons for governing are about as corrupt as corruption gets, but it seems like once a power starts down that path it’s unlikely it’ll change.
Also, even America fighting Israel’s fight for purely political reasons is stupid. Since when has Israel been a colony of America? It’s amazing how bass-ackwards America’s role in the world has become.
LOL all this is so damn funny.
The US AND Israel are both pawns of Britain, its pretty obvious, anything that they do for each other is irrelevant.
Oh and v funny with the picture Marc.
How the US used to deal with Israel?
http://time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,950716,00.html
Israel should deal with its own problem and the US should keep them at arms length. We are supplying money, arms and political support and they are not acting responsibly with it.
We will expereince part of the blowback that will come from this action in Gaza, plus the inhumanitarian(?) blockade that was taking place before that attack.
Isreal is a sectarian/ethnic state and that is going to cause problems within our current Western moral system for the foreseeable future.
Only if the US values politics and power over morality.
Which I guess means yes?
2–named==you are an interesting guy. Unique point of view in posting. I like the fact you use links.
So far, NONE of your links address the points you are responding to. More some kind of “word association” process going on. Like mystical code words one uses when talking to someone when nothing need be said to begin with but are just gibberish to those who have opposing opinions.
Why don’t you take a step back and try to engage the world you disagree with: should America generally support Israel or force them to take steps immediately leading to their own destruction and the imposition of another Muslim Dictatorship in the Middle East?
3. Zybch==I think Israel has long been a proxy force in the Middle East for the USA. First Against Russia, now against Fundies who want our oil (sarcasm!!). I don’t think much would change one way or the other for the USA if Israel continues or not.
History does that. It continues no matter what.
Israel is not always right. U.S. should not always side with Israel.
That said, the U.N. and Amnesty International should not always side with the Palestinians in condemning Israel while ignoring the atrocities from the Palestinians.
It is often the case in that region that BOTH SIDES ARE WRONG. It is not OK for the U.N. to repeatedly condemn just one side.
Also, some things are not OK no matter what happened before. The ends do not justify the means. Some means must be condemned consistently without regard for anything that happened before.
Great Quote from Glenn Greenwald:
Ultimately, what is most notable about the “debate” in the U.S. over Israel-Gaza is that virtually all of it occurs from the perspective of Israeli interests but almost none of it is conducted from the perspective of American interests. … American opinion-making elites march forward to opine on the historical rights and wrongs of the endless Israeli-Palestinian territorial conflict with such fervor and fixation that it’s often easy to forget that the U.S. is not actually a direct party to this dispute.
Yup. When the attack comes and they want to take away MORE of your civil liberties (Gitmo West!) don’t let them tell you they hate us because of our ‘freedom’. It is blowback for US international policy.
America should always side with any nation that believes in freedom, equality, and democracy AND PRACTICES THE SAME.
With that criteria, neither Palestine nor Israel qualify.
Someone send that picture to Viceland.com
The US should just let the two sides fight to the death and stay out of it.
14,
You know, I was particularly expecting the following statement from you…
“should America generally support Israel or force them to take steps immediately leading to their own destruction and the imposition of another Muslim Dictatorship in the Middle East?”
And also WHY I was particularly happy to provide the link from Uri which in my mind was timely AND salient. His understanding of the country HE helped create is clear… And particularly to your interest is this…
“This will have historic consequences. A whole generation of Arab leaders, a generation imbued with the ideology of secular Arab nationalism, the successors of Gamal Abd-al-Nasser, Hafez al-Assad and Yasser Arafat, may be swept from the stage. In the Arab space, the only viable alternative is the ideology of Islamic fundamentalism.
This war is a writing on the wall: Israel is missing the historic chance of making peace with secular Arab nationalism. Tomorrow, It may be faced with a uniformly fundamentalist Arab world, Hamas multiplied by a thousand.”
I know you read the article… Well, at least I hope you did… Maybe you just missed that last part.
So, what are America’s interests in the region? Hope that Israel dominates and controls the entire Middle East and then hope that Israel shares the resources due to past good behavior? Or perhaps to let Israel go nuclear, have total destruction in the region and then walk in and pick up the pieces? Or is there some altruism I’m missing?
I’ve always thought that “America” has had a problem separating the “Jewish faith” from the “Israeli Government”.
They’re not the same thing, at least to me, the Israeli Government represents Israelis not the Jewish faith (despite what they may think), just as the Italian Government represents Italians not the Catholic faith (yea, them too).
#20–named==reality isn’t your close friend is it?
Yes, I read the link. It is all BS, no one rational finds anything but blatant propaganda there.
My first clue after beginning with “think of the kiddies” appeal was the following nonsense: (Para 6) “Then there came the small provocations which were designed to get Hamas to react.” Zealots with a propaganda axe to grind will treat history as a series of cogs and levers: “the enemy” did this which caused that.
The smaller the act described, the less possible for it t o be true. History is complex, layered, contested. Not so simple except for dedicated propagandists to motivate the simple minded.
Re-read the article though, at first blush, I do agree the virtual blockade of Gaza was tantamount to an act of war. If YOU weren’t so TAINTED as an historian, I wouldn’t suspect there is a lot being left out of this general description. Same goes for the overwhelming slant of the link. The appeal to emotion that begins the tract makes all else not credible on its face. Could be true, probably not.
BUT THE ISSUE WAS, that you still haven’t responded to at all is as stated: should USA support Israel or not? I already gave my directly responsive opinion. Can you be as direct?
YES
The U.S. should side with whomever is in their best interests. Case in point, the famous picture of Donald Rumsfeld with Sadam Hussein. At that point in history, it was in our best interests; things change with time.
Yes
Islam is an existential threat to all other civilizations. Anyone kicking its butt should get our support.
This book could explian one reason why we should,
http://tinyurl.com/7m2e7s
Let me answer it this way: Like many liberal democracies, Israel has its share of flaws and problems. But constantly proclaiming a violent religious ideology of global conquest via worldwide death and destruction of other religious ideologies is not one of those flaws.
Besides, what other liberal democracy with good looking army babes in the Mid-East should America support??
Oh. That’s right. There aren’t any other liberal democracy with good looking army babes in the Mid-East because they’re all totalitarian regimes!
Case closed.
#26–Jim: “In this book, Bill Koenig provides undeniable facts and conclusive evidence showing that indeed the leaders of the United States and the world are on a collision course with God over Israel’s covenant land.”
I hope you and your ilk used the bible as your investment guide in the last few years. hahahahahhah!
I’d side with the soldier. Nothing like hot babes with guns for good PR.
When Hamas rockets are pounding Israel, the answer is YES!