While Israel needed to do something about it being attacked, are the air strikes with all the civilian casualties only creating more hatred and suicide bombers and such? What can possibly be the outcome of a house to house ground war in Gaza? Or is that prospect just posturing to pressure the people to oust Hamas, assuming they could?
Israel bombed a mosque and the homes of at least half a dozen Hamas leaders in the Gaza Strip on Friday and allowed foreign passport holders to leave the ravaged territory, as speculation rose that a ground assault could be imminent.
Israel’s offensive in Gaza, which began last Saturday, has been carried out exclusively by air and by sea. After a day of heavy rain, the weather improved Thursday, and military analysts said Israeli tanks and other vehicles massed on Gaza’s border could more easily enter the territory.
[…]
“The forces are there, and they’re ready for anything,” said an Israeli military spokeswoman, Maj. Avital Leibovich.
[…]
Although Israel rejected a cease-fire proposal this week, there were signs Thursday that it was stepping up its diplomatic efforts. Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni traveled to France, where officials have been leading an international campaign to persuade Israel and Hamas to hold their fire.But there is pressure within Israel for the government to continue its campaign, and perhaps topple Hamas altogether. That would almost certainly require a ground operation, which would be likely to raise the death toll substantially on both sides.
“There is no way to take Hamas out without going into Gaza. The problem is the price,” said Yaakov Amidror, a retired Israeli major general who headed the military’s research and assessment division. “My feeling is that we should do it. All the other players in the region are wondering why we are hesitating if we are so strong.”
#102–named. I’m not angry at all. Although one of my disappointments in life is that too many girls have said I “look like” I’m angry all the time. I accept that challenging logical ellipsis make me sound the same?
Note I did say Jopa was silly for thinking Israel had a right to the land? How can I say any different for Palestine.
No–its simply the logic/truth of any given proposition. I sound the same when it comes to substituting baking powder for fast rising yeast.
There are certain “truths” that an objective look at a subject will reveal.
“We originally posted this before today’s events. What now do you think will be the outcome?”
The outcome? Expect a press conference by several rich/influential Jewish American persons stating to the public to not confuse them with Israelis. If my memory is right they did it once before during Israel’s attack on Lebanon.
102…
No–its simply the logic/truth of any given proposition. I sound the same when it comes to substituting baking powder for fast rising yeast.
How could you!
104.
If my memory is right they did it once before during Israel’s attack on Lebanon.
Uh… many many times before that too…
Outcome, Hamas will use civilian casualties to recruit more members and the violence will continue.
The fact of the matter is that Hamas and the other Islamic terrorist groups will not stop until Israel is 100% wiped out and every Jew is gone from the area. You can give the Palestinians as much land as you want, but they won’t stop the violence until Israel is gone and that’s simply not going to happen.
NUK’EM!
#110 – Fredo
Geez, I’m not sure which would be worse – to be ruled by Evil Islam, or to be ruled by your variant of Christianity.
Seems like either way, I’d be forced to worship whomever the Overlords mandated.
Wow, 112 posts in a day.
From the original post’s comments:
> While Israel needed to do something
> about it being attacked, are
> the air strikes with all
> the civilian casualties only
> creating more hatred and
> suicide bombers and such?
You make it sound as if the military is intentinally targeting the innocent. Air strikes are targeting areas where they believe militants are hiding. Wars are awful things for, among many reasons, innocent people get caught in the crossfire.
I have a friend who is Israeli and his reaction was “It’s about time.” He suggested that the Iraeli people have been wondering for some time when they’d put a stop to this nonsense from Gaza.
> What can possibly be the
> outcome of a house to house
> ground war in Gaza?
The object of a war is to bend your opponent’s will to your own. The purpose of a ground war will be to eliminate the threat and I suspect will require occupation for quite some time. The Palestinian government has themselves to blame for not putting an end to yahoos firing rockets into Israel. The reason you stop such nonsense is that it can precipitate a war.
Can they win? Yes, but it will require united and constant support by the people of Israel for a protracted occupation. Winning wars requires more than success on the battlefield.
You can’t win a war with terrorists.
Every time you kill a terrorist, it creates five more.
The only solution is to end the circumstances that foster extremism.
Most conflicts with “terrorists” (as opposed to “revolutionaries” but quite a few of them as well) are won by the National Power. On average, such conflicts last 8-10 years. Palestine conflict going on now for 50 years “basically” because Israel has been unwilling to kill innocent people as most Nation States are willing to do.
In fact, other than Jews throwing off their British Overlords in 1948, its difficult identifying what terrorists have won. IRA comes close==they settled for peace.
Peace will come after Israel gets tough. So far, they have been purely defensive. Wars are won by offense.
#112 Mister Mustard;
I have a fix for your dilemma.
You can simply worship me. I’ll be much more benign.
#115 Bobbo. Exactly my sentiments as well.
Israel isn’t doing anyone any favors in the long run by pussy-footing around. Israel was established legally and legitimately by the UN and expanded through conquest during wars they didn’t start.
Hamas and those who support them are waging another war against Israel, and Israel has the right to respond. Israel has the right to wipe Gaza off the map if needs be to protect itself since that is the frequently professed aim of those who rule and occupy Gaza.
Why is this so hard to understand? Why do so many get so “touchy-feely” when it comes to Israel’s justifiable response?
All I can come up with is:
A) Total and complete willing Naivete, or
B) Antisemitism.
Thanks Ah-Yea==societies collapse when they become so civilized they decline to kill innocent foreigners to maintain their sovereignty. Collapse by being conquered by “Barbarians” that is.
I don’t see as much of this malaise as I see misplaced hypocrisy. NO country would allow itself to be bombed and rocketed except by a stronger tyrant. Stupid over-emotional religious types want to “think of the kiddies” when they are dealing with baby rattlesnakes.
Well said!
After the treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo was signed, everyone living between the Arkansas River and the Pacific and what’s now the southern borders of New Mexico, Arizona and California became U.S. citizens and within a year Californians were citizens of a state. While those people were not always treated well, they still had the legal rights of all Americans and in many areas like New Mexico and southern Colorado have prospered. Jordan doesn’t want the West Bank and Egypt doesn’t want Gaza. If Israel wants to have troops and settlements in occupied territory (albeit they closed the Gaza settlements) and if Israelis believe in justice and democracy. they should annex those areas. The reason they won’t is that Palestinians would have too much power in the Knesset and it would be the end of Likud. It also would dilute the religious purity of the country, so important to the zealots who don’t want to share that real estate with anyone outside their belief. Unfortunately, I don’t see this improving until the Palestinians stop relying on other Arabs who only use them as a pawn and turn to the West to make their case against the ethnic cleansing that has victimized them since 1948.
Gaza’s weapons of mass destruction hit. Israeli and US cowards, you really think this will lead to peace.
http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Leaked_graphic_video_shows_carnage_in_0104.html
# 122 jim said, “Gaza’s weapons of mass destruction hit. Israeli and US cowards, you really think this will lead to peace.”
Do American’s think missiles launched from Gaza will lead to peace? No.
Nuke the entire middle east until is got a nice shiny, glass crust on it. Slant drill from the edges for the oil and the problem is solved.
If you took away all technology, these people would still go at each other with swords, rocks, sticks, etc. It’s been going on for thousands of years and isn’t about to end.
#123, 124
Gaza is a ghetto. Palestinians are starved and humiliated by Israel and the US and you know this. Less then 20 people killed over the last six years from hand made rockets doesn’t justify this massacre. You are cowards. And, yet you still wonder why the world hates you.
# 126 jim said, “Less then 20 people killed over the last six years from hand made rockets doesn’t justify this massacre.”
If a bunch of people lived next door to me and on a daily basis shot into my home I’d blow up their house (with everyone in it). When people are trying to kill you forget about proportional response.
#114
Nonsense. How is it that incidents of terrorism in most industrialized nations are rare? The first step is to eliminate governments that actively support terrorism or force them to change. The next step is encourage governments to crack down on terrorists within their own country.
Israel is taking the first step by eliminating the Hamas government. The next step will be occupy Gaza until the people of Gaza are willing to be governed by a body that refuses to allow terrorism and will actively work to stop it. It might take a long time for that to happen which means that Israeli will be in Gaza for some time. In the mean time, after they are done rooting out Hamas, they might start by forcing a change in the schools.
Here is another coward. Your in great company. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jürgen_Stroop
#126
> Less then 20 people killed
How many people does it take before it is wrong? 200? 2000? Normally, the host government is expected to stop this nonsense. It is not like these bozos fired one rocket into Israel. This has been going on for months. When the host government does nothing to stop this behavior, the message is that the host government condones it and is open game for replacement.
As I said, the reason you stop your own people from firing rockets into another country is that wars can start over such things and here we are.
There was occupation before there was an uprising. And, what do you really expect when the Israeli’s have taking everything from them.
Jurgen Stroop is in full agreement with all. Your in great company. Cowards.
# 131 Jim said, “There was occupation before there was an uprising.”
The occupation in Gaza ended quite a while ago. Nice try but no cigar.
You can sick your cigar Gaza is a ghetto a prison controlled by Israel. By land, sea, and air nothing gets into gaza without Israeli permission.
#133
So, what that tells me is that Israel tried to give them independence and clearly they could not handle it. So, the solution is to eliminate the government which clearly condoned attacks on Israel and return order to the region.
The answer is so simple as to be sublime. There will be peace in the Middle east when the arabs stop trying to destroy Israel. Does anyone seriously believe that in the absence of arab attacks the Israelis would attack the arabs? There is no evidence whatsoever to support they would. Even the ‘terrorism,’ if you want to equate Jewish guerilla fighting of the ’20s and ’30s with arab terrorism, was directed at British military targets, but not arabs.
Arab citizens of Israel have a standard of living far exceeding that of the ‘palestinians,’ and this is the thanks the Israelis get.
Now you cowards are again using chemicals weapons on women and children.
http://www.sott.net/articles/
show/172089-White-Phosphorous-Israel-fires-artillery-shells-into-Gaza
#137 – “Now you cowards are again using chemicals weapons on women and children.”
Are you trying to make some distinction between Israelis, who kill women and children when arabs park weapons next to them, and the arabs who specifically target women and children because they’ve gotten their asses kicked in real battle every time?
Let me help, one group, Israel, kills as few women and children as possible while defending their existence. The other, arabs, seek to kill as many women and children as possible, including their own, so as to have a political weapon.
And who’s the cowards?