UPDATE: The ground war has started. We originally posted this before today’s events. What now do you think will be the outcome?

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While Israel needed to do something about it being attacked, are the air strikes with all the civilian casualties only creating more hatred and suicide bombers and such? What can possibly be the outcome of a house to house ground war in Gaza? Or is that prospect just posturing to pressure the people to oust Hamas, assuming they could?

Israel bombed a mosque and the homes of at least half a dozen Hamas leaders in the Gaza Strip on Friday and allowed foreign passport holders to leave the ravaged territory, as speculation rose that a ground assault could be imminent.

Israel’s offensive in Gaza, which began last Saturday, has been carried out exclusively by air and by sea. After a day of heavy rain, the weather improved Thursday, and military analysts said Israeli tanks and other vehicles massed on Gaza’s border could more easily enter the territory.
[…]
“The forces are there, and they’re ready for anything,” said an Israeli military spokeswoman, Maj. Avital Leibovich.
[…]
Although Israel rejected a cease-fire proposal this week, there were signs Thursday that it was stepping up its diplomatic efforts. Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni traveled to France, where officials have been leading an international campaign to persuade Israel and Hamas to hold their fire.

But there is pressure within Israel for the government to continue its campaign, and perhaps topple Hamas altogether. That would almost certainly require a ground operation, which would be likely to raise the death toll substantially on both sides.

“There is no way to take Hamas out without going into Gaza. The problem is the price,” said Yaakov Amidror, a retired Israeli major general who headed the military’s research and assessment division. “My feeling is that we should do it. All the other players in the region are wondering why we are hesitating if we are so strong.”




  1. bobbo says:

    #21–named==what exactly is in that link other than more BS meaningless status quo hand wringing hypocritical NONSENSE?

    #28–named (again)==hasn’t Hamas been sending 2-3 rockets PER DAY into Israel for the past 18 months on general purposes to show their resolve? Whatever you think happened a month ago to up the daily Act of War to 100’s of rockets per day is nothing short of STUPIDITY IN THE EXTREME. Its idiot attitudes/beliefs/propaganda such as yours that has given the Palestians the grief they have experienced.

  2. sargasso says:

    It’s a great big hot unholy mess and through the physics of entropy it will reach a final low energy resting state. How low, is what I’m worried about.

  3. GF says:

    What if we offer the Palestinian men 58 virgins and a goat?

  4. bobbo says:

    Here is a pro-Palestinian post more clever than offered by named. But:

    1. While calling for an extension of the “truce” did Hamas ever revoke its express goal of exterminating Israel?

    2. What nation accepts daily missles fired on it as a mere inconvenience?

    3. Does it matter at all that some other terrorist group, other than Hamas, that also wants to exterminate Israel is also firing rockets?

    4. Any aid to the peaceful Palestinians only gives aid and comfort to Hamas and others who wish to exterminate Israel.

    Thins NEED TO get a lot worse before they will ever get better.

    http://huffingtonpost.com/richard-falk/understanding-the-gaza-ca_b_154777.html

  5. gerry says:

    Yeah,, i guess mohammed was into girls under 10.Where else could you find a pool of so many virgins?

  6. Named says:

    33

    hasn’t Hamas been sending 2-3 rockets PER DAY into Israel for the past 18 months on general purposes to show their resolve?

    Source please. I’m not doubting you, but just need some proof. And I mean proof that Hamas as a government was behind the operation.

    Also, as the articles CLEARLY state from Israel and America Israel attacked FIRST as a GOVERNMENT POLICY. If the Israeli government denied the attack or did not sanction it, then you can chalk it up to rebels / revolutionaries within Israel and they should be dealt with appropriately.

  7. Named says:

    33,

    And, before anything, please read post number 12…

  8. bobbo says:

    Named–Why should the Arabs make peace? That is a threshold question and the answer is because they can’t win a war.

    Pick your own quibbles.

  9. Uncle Dave says:

    #35: That brings up something I’ve always wondered about. What if there was a misprint and it was 72 (not 58) virgin MEN that awaits martyrs in heaven?

  10. Named says:

    41,

    Who says the Arabs can’t win a war? Because the US military provides weapons defacto gratis to Israel? Or because Israel makes money reselling US arms and technology to China?

    You know it’s a clusterfuck there, but your simplistic concepts are not a solution.

  11. bobbo says:

    #43–named==dope.

  12. Named says:

    44, now you’re name calling? Are you 12?

  13. bobbo says:

    For the good anti-Palestinian pro Bush folks out there, here is a “must see” video where Brzezinski tells Scarboroough to STFU.

    Reminds me that on any important subject, the details often vary from popular conception.

    Zigbew may have a command of the details, rather than being willfully ignorant and blind like named. Reminds me of Alexander’s challenge with the Gordian Knot. Details to complex to ever master. Simple solution though, making world history and changing the political map.

    Thats why Diplomats serve a limited and only supportive functions and leaders must lead.

  14. fedup says:

    Why do liberals hate America and Israel? Here’s the answer: http://youtube.com/watch?v=eaE98w1KZ-c

  15. bobbo says:

    #48–fedup==I stopped watching at 3 min. “Liberals hate America because this guy attributed ALL Liberals not caring when 911 happened.”

    Accusing liberals of defective “thinking” is far superior to the fact of kneejerk tools not thinking at all.

  16. bobbo says:

    Pedro==wide open: “Mission Accomplished.”

  17. Mister Mustard says:

    #48 – FuckUp

    >>Why do liberals hate America and Israel?

    We don’t hate America and Israel, we only hate fuckups like you and that droning BigNose with his idiotic thesis that liberals hate America.

    If we really hated America, we would have supported what Dumbya did after 9/11, and let Bin Laden skip gaily off to the dialysis center while tearing the United States apart with his vain, pointless trophy war.

  18. Jopa says:

    As an Israeli I can tell you this:
    1. We will win every war against the arabs. We have no choice but to win. They want to kill us all, our families, burin our homes. We protect our families, we must win and we shell.
    2. If there will be peace one day it will be only when the arabs lose their faith that they can destroy Israel. Their terror campaigns are not a result of frustration and poverty. It is fueled by their hope to destroy us. When they finally understand that they cannot destroy us, they will abandon the ways of war and terror.
    3. It is not and never have been their land. It was always ours. They should go back to the places they came from, meaning: Syria and Egypt.
    The arabs have n business in the land of Israel.

  19. bobbo says:

    #53–Jopa==when peace finally comes==how will Israel deal with a rapidly reproducing Arab minority within their borders?

    Another challenge to the clash of humanitarian desires with reality.

  20. Selvy says:

    Well gee…Israel gave up Gaza and STILL had to deal with shelling, etc…

    Israel has tried the ‘peace’ method (giving up land, etc.) but in the end there will be no peace as long as militant Islamists remain in power among (and over) the Palestinians, and as long as Iran and other neighbors support them. Arafat could’ve given peace a chance way back in Clinton’s time, instead he chose the Intifada because neither he nor his bunch were looking for it. In the end Israel will have to keep building barriers and periodically knocking the tar out of those who vow to snuff them out or push them back into the sea. Israel’s opponents have not given up on forcing them to leave. In the meantime, people will continue to suffer.

  21. Named says:

    This thread has devolved into a theocratic masturbatory exercise.

    The alleged Atheist bobbo is constantly pumping up Israel… A theocratic creation by writ of Balfour in the 1919’s… And supported by a bunch of end timers waiting for the rapture / Armageddon (depending on whether you’re cut or not) and living on a piece of land that the deed was handed down by the God in heaven to a dude with two clay tablets? What a pointless debate! You can’t win against bible / torah thumpers! Afterall, God gave them the land… in fact, I’m sure the exact date time and place are listed on the deed… Why doesn’t anyone just bring out the official God document and end the debate?

    Oh yeah… that would require the unicorn to deliver it.

    Bobbo… you’re an atheist alright… And you pray to God every night to give you the strength to believe that.

  22. Mister Mustard says:

    #57 – Named

    Yeah, that’ pretty funny to see Mista Bobbolina thumping his chest in solidarity of The Chosen People.

    I’l bet if it were a Christian nation seeking to defend their beliefs, he’d be all over them like stink on shit.

  23. Mr. Fusion says:

    #53, jopa,

    The arabs have n business in the land of Israel.

    That is the crux of the problem. There will be no peace until the Israelis have killed every last Palestinian.

    In that case, let’s just nuke the area. With the Israelis still there in the homes and land they stole.

  24. Mr. Fusion says:

    #52, Mustard,

    Leave him a lone. F*ckup is just Jimy Heel trying out a new name.

  25. bobbo says:

    #56–Pedro==you just switched subjects. Of course a “new name” will not have been used before.

    #57–named. Still a dope. So far from rational discussion, you aren’t worth the effort. Proof is Mustard joining your side.

    What do you two dopes not understand about the establishment and maintenance of a National State? Has nothing to do with religion, and everything to do with power.

    I suppose you two will continue to warp everything thru your religious filter and project the same distortions onto everyone else. Everything you disagree with must be associated with a religious view you find blasphemous? HARRRRR!!! What a trip.

  26. Mr. Fusion says:

    For all you nimrods that like to spout bullshit, in 1993 Arafat accepted the existence of Israel. What he did not accept was the continued occupation of land by Israel Negotiations between Israel and the PLO continued until Sharon came to power and started shooting.

    Since the Oslo Accords the Israeli aggression has continued to kill and imprison Palestinians without cause. They have arbitrarily stopped medical and food shipments into Gaza and the West Bank. They have harassed Palestinians traveling from one West Bank town to another by setting up road blocks in Palestinian territory. They have detained ambulances carrying ill and injured Palestinians.

    Geeze, how the hell can anyone condone the killing of innocents.

  27. Named says:

    62,

    I did agree with some of your points about 30 comments back… Land IS held or lost by violence. But, you bring up historical points but fail to go back far enough. As I mentioned, Israel was NOT created by a bloody battle like Washington took out the natives. No. A British MP wrote it out for them and partitioned the land. Blood was shed soon after that. But, you’re “Nationstate” creation fails in Israel BECAUSE of Balfour.

  28. Named says:

    64..

    your not you’re… GOD DAMN ENGLISH!

    Carry on.

  29. bobbo says:

    #64–named. Your first rational post. I’ll take it line by line:

    1. I did agree with some of your points about 30 comments back…/// I actually prefer rational disagreement. Its when I learn the most and have a chance to change my mind.

    2. Land IS held or lost by violence. /// Correct. Focus on that. Other issues will ebb and flow and often be very important BUT in the end, its who keeps the land by force that counts.

    3. But, you bring up historical points but fail to go back far enough. /// There are historical points offered from time to time for discussion but the CONTROLLING element is who has the military power to maintain their occupation. Historical justification is used by LOSERS. Winners say “Here I am and I will stay.”

    4. As I mentioned, Israel was NOT created by a bloody battle like Washington took out the natives. No. A British MP wrote it out for them and partitioned the land. Blood was shed soon after that. But, you’re “Nationstate” creation fails in Israel BECAUSE of Balfour. /// Every Nation State covers their BS by moral claims. Look at Jopa claiming the land was always theirs. Silly, but good for recruiting cannon fodder which is all that counts. After Balfour the Jews occupied Israel by force and kept it by force thru what about 5 different wars? Arabs had a few chances and came close a few times. Much harder to fight and die to claim “new” land rather than defend your current home.

    I fail to spot what you think you are contesting.


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