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The scandal, the deacon informed the bride-to-be, was her coming marriage.
LaFortune married anyway, but now she’s the one who feels scandalized. Fired from Central Catholic High School for the Nov. 22 wedding, the 25-year-old has filed a complaint with the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission and wants to sue the school.
The reason for her termination turns on a theological tenet. According to Catholic doctrine, participants in a marriage must be an unmarried man and an unmarried woman. LaFortune told the principal that her fiance had been divorced — a proceeding not recognized by the Catholic Church.
The deacon was concerned with whether the first marriage of LaFortune’s fiance, Benjamin Stakes, had been declared invalid by a Catholic tribunal and thereby annulled. His concern, however, did not sit well with LaFortune, who refused to resign from her job or seek an annulment — a process that could reach to Rome and take more than a year.
“I would have resigned if I’d felt like I’d done something wrong,” LaFortune said last week, adding that the conflict put a strain on her wedding preparations.
“As a general matter, religious institutions are free to engage in religious discrimination in employment,” said Ira C. Lupu, a professor of law at the George Washington University Law School. “The question is, are they applying the policy consistently? I think the point about consistency is very important.”
Theocracy sucks under the best of circumstances.
Just to add a little tangentially related fuel to the fire, keep in mind that Bush’s faith based initiatives are purely a way to institute federally funded discrimination.
Religious institutions were always able to get federal funding for charitable programs. What faith based initiatives did was to remove the requirement that the hiring of staff for such programs be non-discriminatory.
So now, not only can churches, temples, mosques, and other religious organizations discriminate in their hiring, they can do so with federal funding for the job.
And one last piece of this rant, Obama wants to continue faith based initiatives. I’ve sent him several nasty-grams about that. If this disgusts you, please go to Obama’s site and tell him what you think.
So? What’s the point here? The Catholic church, like every other religion, is it’s own little social club. If they say you have to spin around counter clockwise 5 times on Tuesday or else you’re kicked out of their club (church) they can do that. If you want to join up with the Catholics, Amish, Mormons, Hindus, Muslims, whatever, then you’re stuck with the odd “rules” of their little magical belief system, no matter how silly they may seem to everyone else. If they Catholics want to do this, or never marry a gay couple ever, they’re free to follow their beliefs. As someone who considers religion just silly fairy tales, I just want them to leave ME alone… since I don’t choose to belong to their silly little club.
I only get pissed at these folks when they try to influence public policy/law (like gay marriage) which impacts folks who don’t SHARE their little magical beliefs and don’t WANT to be part of their little club. Thank god the Amish haven’t tried to outlaw music and bright colored clothing for all Americans (whether or not you’re in the Amish church). At least they’re not dicks.
“…That’s not nice… he’s just a donkey…”
“…That’s not nice… he’s just a donkey…”
I find this quote fit so nicely in so any circumstances. Too many times, unfortunately.
Unless this private religious school receives gov funding she should follow the rules or leave.
#1 MS-
It’s not quite that simple, though from a certain point of view that could be seen as what’s happened with the faith based initiatives. It *has* made discrimination “easier” based on the type and nature of the job you are being hired to do, yes, but it’s not a free hand to have them discriminate openly and freely. The analysis, if I recall correctly, was based around the type of position, the qualifications that are required for it, and the purpose of the position (whether secular or non-). They are still, however, unable to fire anyone for discriminatory reasons.
Whether Obama plans to continue along the same vein is still an open question. His responses and stance during the campaign trail were what I would call “dodgy”, in the sense that he was courting (or at least, seeking not to piss off) the fundies while at the same time leaving his options open to alter the current scheme of things. That being said, if you (or anyone else) feels strongly about it – definitely make yourselves heard.
The article doesn’t say whether or not the school receives public funding, though it does imply it and statistically speaking it probably does. While I certainly wouldn’t personally call this a “scandal”, I could see why a primarily Catholic institution would get themselves in a tizzy over a non-Catholic action. And while in theory a Catholic annulment could take years to get Papal oversight, in practice it usually takes a few weeks to a few months. I know plenty of Catholics who have had their marriages annulled without any big todo.
I’m not defending her firing – simply saying, If you purport to be a member of an organization, is it too much of us as a society to ask that you at least conform yourself to the standards of that organization? Or have we lost all accountability in favor of the id?
She’ll have to go all the way to the Supreme Court. They all ready rule on this type of matters. She’s out of luck. It’s just like the Gay Boy Scout leader being kicked out.
There are Catholics in Texas? Why didn’t anyone tell me?
Well, you all are just a bunch of immoral, donkey loving bastards. Its what the Catholic Church knows God wants and therefore there can be no discussion, just bow down, stay quiet, keep giving them your money.
The Bible–source of all morality. What would we do without it?
Discrimination based upon a person’s race, color, sex, or religion, marriage status, or lack thereof, should never be tolerated.
This is wrong and no amount of right wing nut / evangelical explanation or spin of “the church’s right” can change that.
But they do receive funding. Like all religions (except the church of Elvis) they enjoy tax-free status as they’re ‘faith based’. This tax-free haven should stop for all religious groups, starting with the hypocritical Catholic church (Second on the list is the mormon cult).
In any other part of our society, these school policies would be illegal (not to mention morally reprehensible) but discrimination is allowed to continue as we’re too scared to tackle the real world problem: religious certainty.
The battle between reason and superstition continues…
# 10 cme1ca said, “But they do receive funding. Like all religions (except the church of Elvis) they enjoy tax-free status as they’re ‘faith based’.”
Umm, wrong in 2 ways. 1: Failing to have a gov take your money isn’t funding. 2: They are tax free as a result of being a non profit.
From the article:
Two days after the wedding, the couple traveled to Cripple Creek, Colo., for their honeymoon, where LaFortune’s husband called his ex-wife to relay the entire troubled saga. According to LaFortune, the ex-wife told him their previous marriage had, in fact, been annulled, something she had sought.
The newlyweds were stunned. LaFortune grew upset. Her husband said he had no recollection of an annulment.
So this couple didn’t bother to check whether his previous marriage had been annulled before moving forward with the second marriage? If that’s the case, they’re pretty dumb. This whole thing could have been avoided.
Life is tough — it’s tougher when you’re stupid.
#12 – dumb is obeying all the laws of the state and nation where you are a citizen?
Why should you be required to check out the religious crappola of your employer before you get married?
Only the nutballs who place the rules of superstitition above the law of the land get to act that backwards.
#9 – Mr. Fusion,
You’re correct, of course. It’s just hard to enforce such high ideals on private organizations. I checked and found no evidence that these induhviduals accepted any federal funding, so my prior rant about faith based initiatives will have to stand only on other cases, not this one, unless someone else finds that they have accepted funding.
I think they must have for the woman to be filing EEO charges. Guess we’ll have to wait and see.
As for other discriminatory organizations like Scouts of America, we’ve already proven that the courts are not willing to apply such laws to them. It would be amusing to imagine a black or Jewish KKK grand wizard though, wouldn’t it? Nah. No one from any ethnic group would be stupid enough to want the job, even if the gov’t required that they be allowed to. At least I hope so.
#13 – Phydeau,
Life is tough — it’s tougher when you’re stupid.
Nah. Ignorance is still bliss. Ignorant people are necessarily stupid. We’re all ignorant of many things. But, stupid people are generally ignorant of a whole lot more and are often quite blissful about it in my experience.
#14 moss
I happen to agree with you. I was just saying, it looks like it would have never happened if that guy had called his ex, found out the marriage was annulled, and then they could have gotten married according to the rules of the Catholic church and she wouldn’t have been fired.
But you know, the Catholics have their squirrely rules, but at least they’re not hypocrites like the protestant fundies, who are OK with divorce even though Jesus specifically prohibited it in the bible. What’s with that?
# 15 Misanthropic Scott said, “I think they must have for the woman to be filing EEO charges. Guess we’ll have to wait and see.”
Those data are unrelated. You can work for a private company and file EEO charges.
If they receive gov funding they need to comply with those laws.
#16 Scott
I agree with you, ignorance can be bliss, unless your ignorance gets you into trouble…
Where’s the story here? She took a job with a church that has social rules that are part of that institutions beliefs and theology. She violated them and therefore should be fired. No one forced her to take the job. I know that the liberals would like to force churches to hire transsexual satan worshipers as greeters but that aint gonna happen….Next story….
I just saw Mr Fusions post: I have a question after reading it. Why are liberals so damn stupid?
# 21 fedup said, “Why are liberals so damn stupid?”
Churchill answered that question long ago.
#21 – fedup,
<Purina Troll Chow: made from 100% ground hobbit and hobbit byproducts>
Nice argument, well thought out and concise. Is that what they taught you on the debate team?
</Purina Troll Chow: made from 100% ground hobbit and hobbit byproducts>
Many apologies to the non-trolls on the site. I just had a bunch of troll chow leftover that I needed to get rid of.
Scottie, you forgot the [TM] after Purina
😉
J/P=?
#19, Phydeau and #16, Scott,
I disagree. Ignorance is not bliss. It is dangerous.
An anology to ignorance is alcohol. Drink all you like, but when you wake up the next day all the world’s problems will exist.
Ignorance gave us two terms of the worst Presidency in history. Ignorance gave us sun worshipers, and gods, and the supernatural. Ignorance gave us overfishing, clear cutting, acid rain, and Humvees. Ignorance gave us leeches and bleeding, butter on burns, and intercourse with a virgin for AIDs.
Yes, there is willful ignorance and common ignorance. They both are just as dangerous and harmful though. Firing someone because s/he didn’t get an annulment even though the bible points out that so many Jewish leaders had many (upwards of 1000) wives is retarded. And dangerous.
#24 – J/P: Oops. You’re right.
#25 – Mr. Fusion,
The ignorance is blissful for the ignorant, not the enlightened. How many of those problems are recognized by those who created them and who voted for Bush?
The danger you describe is of course real. But, the ignorant do not see it coming. They still do not feel the pain. They are still blissful.
It is those of us who are not ignorant who feel the pain and see the danger … and are worried rather than blissful.
The blissfully ignorant will enjoy their pathetic lives right up until the anvil hits them on the head.
#27, Scott,
While we quibble, I’m thinking of those GM assembly line workers in St. Louis that voted for Bush and are now out of a job. They were willfully ignorant of the damage that Bush had done and would continue to do.
A lot of people like to be stoned or drunk too. They don’t want to know. The pain will be there for them when they sober up.
Those who are ignorant and strongly want to know though should not be included. I can’t tell you every detail about human physiology but when my physician tells me something, I acknowledge his advanced learning. The same with Climate Change.
Each religious group does it’s own thing. If you want to play inside the group you play by the groups rules. She knew that and decided the rules didn’t apply to her and lost.