Like davidminzer, I’m Jewish and descendant of holocaust survivors. Moreover, I’ve been a Zionist all of my life. I went to a Zionist school, I was active in Zionist youth groups. I’ve always been a fervent supporter of Israel as a refuge for Jews around the world who seek a place to exercise their traditions and embrace their identity in peace. I sang the Israeli anthem in the train rails of Aushwitz-Birkenau and I pledged to fight every day of my life to make sure the savage crimes that had taken place there would never happen again. Every year I pledged: Never Again. Remember and Never forget.
Well, I haven’t forgotten. And so to honor that pledge, to honor the memory of my family members who died in those death camps and because “there comes a time when silence is betrayal,” today I finally and publicly end my support for the state of Israel.
ENOUGH. I’m done justifying crimes against humanity by a country that claims to be an illuminated western democracy. I’m done defending a country that is unwilling to grant self-determination to a neighboring people because it won’t let go of a few settlements and divide a city. I’m done tolerating the slaughtering of innocent kids, the murderous and barbaric occupation of an impoverished people, the utter disregard for human life.
Fuck them.If they think their daily peace of mind is worth the lives of hundreds of innocent people, Fuck them. If they think the best way to go right now would be to vote for Natanyahu (who is so far winning in the polls), Fuck them.
If they won’t bat an eye before keeping millions without electricity or water, before bombing civilian neighborhoods at exactly the time when kids are leaving schools, before breaking every standard of international law or moral decency, Fuck them.
It’s time for every true progressive in this country and around the world to do the only thing that our consciences should allow us to do, the only thing that can keep us consistent with our supposed beliefs that human life is precious and that unnecessary violence is always criminal, barbarous and unacceptable. We must demand that Israel stop violence and immediately put an end to its colonialist military occupation of Palestine. And until they do so, we must organize and do everything we can to make sure our money is not financing mass murder and oppression.
Thanks to Ian Warner
#54. Since Jews don’t believe in Heaven, Hell or an afterlife, I don’t see your point.
Today I publicly declare Boca Rotan, Florida “The Promised Holy Land”. Our country would save so much money if we gave every Jew in Israel a free house and stipend to live in Florida then let the Arab hordes have at it in that middle east shit hole.
#42–Angel==thats not a very deep “analysis” or do you in your unique way over emphasize “anal?”
So, you would put the entire history of the Israel question on a single event and all on one side of disputants? History is more complex than that.
Almost everyone here posts with and evident complete lack of knowledge of the history of the Middle East beyond what they have heard on tv the last week.
The best example of this is #37–Use Logic==a longer more detailed post leading one to think he knows what he is talking about, but he does not.
1) Zionist Jews come into a land and take it /// No. The Jews were given a small area of land by UN determination very much in part because the Palestinians fought in support of Nazi Germany. You know what happens when you lose a war right?
2) These people (The Palestinians) are not given the right to citizenship, as only people of Jewish blood can be Israelis /// No. Arab citizens comprise almost 20% of the population of Israel. The majority identify themselves as Palestinian by nationality and Israeli by citizenship. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_citizens_of_Israel
3) Millions of Palestinian people have been living in refugee camps for generations and are not given equal rights, opportunities or justice. /// Correct. Why don’t the surrounding Arab states grant their brothers Shelter?
4. Pointless. So what? Less but still significant aid is given by USA to most of the other Arab States as well.
5. Again pointless. Why not remind us that water runs downhill?
6. People are the same all the world over. Thats why when any group of them declare themselves to be your enemy, you owe them a quick painless as possible DEATH and not free healthcare and education.
What a dope.
Hey fed up how can you type and pull your tiny penis so quickly ?
It’s hilarious (or sad) to read all your postings about the situation here in Israel… I am sorry, but it’s like hearing a bunch of 4th graders talking about Politics.
What a bunch of morons:
“Israel invaded another country…”
“Palestinians are a captive people….”
“1940s concentration camps…”
What a crock of shit. What a disgrace.
You people don’t even begin to comprehend the real story of Israel and the arab tribes that lived here. You are ignorant not only with regards to the history of the land and the conflict between Jews and Arabs but also to the current situation.
Unless you are willing to actually educate yourselves, PLEASE STFU.
JUST STFU!
Truly yours,
Jopa
(From bombed Israel)
P.S
Reading a Wikipedia “article” doesn’t count as education.
P.S #2
One point to the first monkey that can tell me this: where does the name “palestine” comes from?
#53 could you also explain to us what happens with the Jewish after the return of the Christ according to your bible?
Dear Editor, we are fed up with this douche “fedup”.
Read some truth that really got to you ah Steve? Maybe you should spend more time thinking about the jewish children being killed than the size of a man’s dick…
Bahram, this site does not belong to you liberal free speech supporters. At least 5 or 6 more posters would also get booted. Just can’t stand to hear the truth can you? I know it must hurt to know that deep inside you hate jewish children.
#68–Hey F&dup==I’ve been thinking you are pretty much an ignorant bigot out for a troll but with all the heat you are drawing, I’ll have to reassess.
Heh, heh. Defending your right to say whatever, etc.
If you ask each side why they shot at the other side, they will say they shot at the other side because the other side did something first. Its like when I would fight with my brother in the back seat of the family car. I would hit him. Then he would hit me. It would go back and fourth until something external like my dad yelling at us, or getting distracted by somthing. Eventually we grew up and stopped fighting over things like who crossed the border down drawn down the middle of the back seat.
#66–Jopa==with your intimate knowledge of this issue==what would you say are a few things that people really need to understand about the conflict?
Call me all the names you want. Im not a liberal so name calling doesn’t mean shit to me. To all you “progressives” it’s the worst possible offense known to man. Like I said, the death of jewish children means nothing to you but calling a liberal a name, now that’s unforgivable. This site is not edited by Nazi propagandist so save your breath. I know the truth must be painful and obviously I am hitting a nerve because all of you free speech activist are begging for me to be booted.
@ Who Needs You?
You are a douchebag.
Like most Americans, I really don’t care who gets blown to hell over there, as long as they are not Americans. The Israelis do have better equipment, and tend to fight a cleaner war. The Hamas ragheads are a bit disgusting and seem plain filthy, and there is something about strapping on a bomb and walking into a public place that is just nasty. However, I do enjoy a good fight, if I am just observing from my comfortable living room, like the rest of you passionate debaters. Seriously, if any of you are really concerned, I suggest you take a vacation in one of those hell-holes, grab some rocks, or explosives, or rifles, and have at it. Don’t forget your face masks and spider web pattern head scarves if you fight on the Hamas side.
Jopa,
Most of the fools that are spewing the crap you referred to are the probably middle eastern studies professors in American Universities. They care more about how much food is being delivered to Hamas than they do about about the safety of the Isareli people. They just parrot what they hear from CNN and MSNBC. They have no idea that the word “Palestine” is a PR word that has no real historical context and was conjured up by several Arab states….
Could someone please get “fedup” his medication?
In the meantime fedup, do yourself a favor and read a bit on the *history* of the conflict, you might learn something.
Also, you could answer my question about the fate of the Jewish people after the return of the Christ acording to the bible, you seem like a person who would be knowledgeable in such areas.
I am quick to admit that my opinions are only based on what I’ve read about this mess since I was a little kid back in 1967. I’ve never been there but I have friends from both sides of this conflict. Look at the numbers. The score in this episode is 350 to 2. It’s similar to other episodes (you name ’em).
It’s easy for Israel to do the big splash punishment routine to make the voters feel compensated for the nagging fear that someone is always trying to kill them. But I wonder if they truly believe that killing innocent people in large disproportionate numbers will ever have a positive result.
bahram, I have forgotten more about this issue than what your lesbian history professor at Cal taught you. What, did she teach you that the word Palestine originated from some ancient Arab tribe? And you probably believe that Kwanzaa is an old african tradition…
#78–Steve==If such kill ratio’s are the standard for engagements of the USA, why should Israel be stigmatized for achieving the same fine results.
Remember the quote from Patton.
Facts in a vacuum have no meaning.
A man with an experience is never at the mercy of an emotional idiot with an argument. You see Steve is more upset about the apparent “unfairness” of Israel having killed 350 to Hamas’s 2. So unfair…. Solution is so easy…Agree that Israel has a right to exist, stop pushing 10 years old across the border with bomb back packs and stop launching rockets into Israel… If Israel did not have to fear that some barbarian with a bomb would not blow them up every time they stepped on a bus or ate a cafe or even sat in their living room to watch TV maybe they would be more at ease with relaxing the restrictions on the west bank and Gaza making life for those that live there a bit better
#70–F&dup==ok, since you have said it twice and are crowing about it: I thought Palestine was named in the Bible as the home of the Philistines. Hasn’t the area, with varying borders, been called that pretty much for the last 3000 years?
And anyway=== whats in a name?
No one here, expert or troll, has event tried to address what any solution might be. Its about the only thing Bush may have had a flicker of a good idea on===let them fight for awhile until they come to release that peace is in their mutual best interest.
AGAIN–how can anyone make peace with someone who doesn’t want it and wants to see you dead??? Thats the core problem here regardless of history, kill rates, citizenship, religious bigotry, Arab Tribalism, and all the other issues.
Its a hard world when you don’t have an ocean to separate yourself from your enemies.
Jeez, fedup. You’re on edge. Go wrangle some rump and calm down!
#82 Its simple, without justice there would be no peace. I fully agree that the conflict is old and very complex, but there are simple facts which are not deniable, for example, the settelmets in the occupied territories which are regarded illegal by UN and the world court, or the wall, or the right of return issue.
I also agree that Hamas is an extremist organization, but lets don’t forget that extremism only can thrive in desperate conditions, you think if those people would have acceptable living standards and any hope for a prosperous future ffor their kids they would still support sucide bombing or the constant state of war? I highly odubt that.
Another point is that Hamas was democratically elected, and could have become a mainly political movement if it was acknowledged by the international community, you see the double standard? you may vote, but we only respect it if we like the outcome?
A step toward peace could start by Israel respecting the numerous security-council resolutions which it has ignored since decades, giving back the land illegally taken by the settlers and give the Palestinians a chance of a normal life, trade, health, education.
As long as there is no justice, there wont be peace.
#72, bobbo:
I will cut to the chase, here is the key thing:
This is not a conflict between Israel and Hamas, it is not a conflict about land, it is not a conflict about politics and it is not a conflict between religions in the classic sense of the word. It revolves around one main thing: Islam inability to accept anything else but Islam. Now before you cry “racist”, you need to understand the following:
Islam is not a religion, nor it is a culture. Islam is EVERYTHING.
Religion + Culture + Law + Science + Food + Art + EVERYTHING.
And there is a simple rule: Islam is above anything else. Jew? reject.
Christian? reject. Hindu? reject. Budhist? reject. Secular?! REJECT.
Israel is situated on one of the many borders of the muslim worlds. As Huntington so cleverly called it “the bloody borders of Islam”. If Switzerland was the border with Islam then you would have war there. If it was FUCKEN ANTARCTICA the penguins would be at war with them. Just wait a decade or two and you will witness it happening in the UK, France and other countries of the EU.
Sure, there is a dispute between Israel and the Arabs about many great deal of things, but this has never EVER been the main issue. Hamas epitomizes this. They have a mission that they declared in public – to establish a muslim kingdom under Sharia law and to spread Islam (forcefully if needed) until the entire world is one Uma under Islam (nation). That mean you too Angel H. Wong – you monkey.
Israel is a sideshow. The main target is Europe and the US. Then China and India. People, I shit you not. They are declaring it in public, out loud. You just don’t want to listen. My bet is that Belgium will be the first to go, they are already more than 30% (!!!) of the population there. Sharia law will follow.
P.S
The land is called ISRAEL – not palestine. Palestine was a name given to Israel by the ROMANS in an attempt to break the connection between the JEWS and THEIR OWN LAND. It has nothing to do with Islam or Arab people who forcefully conquered OUR LAND and oppressed every single member of other religion that lived here.
So please, calling Israel in the name “palestine”, is like calling China Brazil. The name Palestine was chosen by the romans after a people called Plishtim that used to live on the coast of Israel and were ethnically cleansed (“Holocausted”) by the Babylonians. The current “palestinians” are Arabs that came from Syria about 200 years ago and they are mixed with muslim Egyptians. THEY HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS PLACE!
#84–Bahram==justice is irrelevant claptrap when talking about nation states. States are formed and maintain by the raw exercise of power, not the exercise of some loopy notion of “justice.” Now, appeals to the injustice of it all certainly will rile people up, but it is most often a very secondary issue.
The main issue is raw power and the willingness to use it. Dispense too much “justice” and the minority that enjoys it will simply take over the naive/weak state.
Do you think the right of return is necessary for a just outcome????? DO YOU??????? hah!!!!! Dream on.
# 85–Jopa==I agree.
Would you go further and say the notion of “a moderate muslim” is lying to the infidel?
For those of you that just blindly commented without even reading the article/blog post, then you really need to read the 3 small sentences right down near the bottom:
“Unnecessary murder of innocents is always wrong.
Selfish and unjustifiable occupation is always wrong.
Inaction in the face of massive suffering and injustice is always wrong.”
The whole story can be summed up there, and NOBODY could disagree with those points, at least nobody sane. And yet it is these three points which the Israeli government (and by extension EVERY person who identifies themselves as Jewish/Israeli) is doing to the people of Palestine.
Now I’m certainly NOT saying that the actions of groups in Palestine aren’t just as evil, they are, but as a people who were hugely persecuted in the 30’s and 40’s, Israelis should, more than ANY other people on the planet, be sensitive to what they are doing.
However it seems to any outsider not brainwashed by the “support Israel at any cost” lobby that Israel is the new Germany circa 1938.
Its just sad. Very sad.
For those complaining of anti-semitism, you must realize that the whole point of being jewish is to be God’s chosen people and thus are people on a higher plane of existence than gentiles. This sort of “i’m better than you” attitude causes anti-semitism.
Ironically, to be any different would be to dilute what it means to be jewish. It is an interesting dynamic to say the least.
I have no comment on the situation in the Gaza strip. Whether there is a more humane way of handling the situation is beyond me. I just don’t spend enough times trying to understand what is going over there.
Just want to comment to everyone complaining that the Israelis stole the land they now occupy.
Well, ok. So did we (ask the Native Americans). If you’re uncomfortable with that, please leave America. Or, at least, convince any Native Americans you know to start blowing up your children at your nearest Starbucks.
#90–Zybitch==you post like a litle girl. Lets all hold hands and sing Kumbaya!
1. “Unnecessary murder of innocents is always wrong. /// or an unavoidable collateral damage of war, which is why war is hell, which is why you don’t commit an act of war lightly.
2. Selfish and unjustifiable occupation is always wrong. /// No. Its how the borders of all nations are made and maintained.
3. Inaction in the face of massive suffering and injustice is always wrong.” /// Well, not if you have better things to do.
So===your solution to the Palestinian Homeland issue is what?