WASHINGTON (Reuters) – Some things never change. Scientists said on Friday they had replicated an experiment in which people obediently delivered painful shocks to others if encouraged to do so by authority figures. Seventy percent of volunteers continued to administer electrical shocks — or at least they believed they were doing so — even after an actor claimed they were painful, Jerry Burger of Santa Clara University in California found.
“What we found is validation of the same argument — if you put people into certain situations, they will act in surprising, and maybe often even disturbing, ways,” Burger said in a telephone interview. “This research is still relevant.” Burger was replicating an experiment published in 1961 by Yale University professor Stanley Milgram, in which volunteers were asked to deliver electric “shocks” to other people if they answered certain questions incorrectly. Milgram found that, after hearing an actor cry out in pain at 150 volts, 82.5 percent of participants continued administering shocks, most to the maximum 450 volts.
The experiment surprised psychologists and no one has tried to replicate it because of the distress suffered by many of the volunteers who believed they were shocking another person.
“When you hear the man scream and say, ‘let me out, I can’t stand it,’ that is the point when the real stress that people criticized Milgram for kicked in,” Burger said. “It was a very, very, very stressful experience for many of the participants. That is the reason no one can ethically replicate the experiment today.”Burger found no differences among his volunteers, aged 20 to 81, and carefully screened them to be average representatives of the U.S. public.
#32
Umm,
is that like saying every ATHEIST nations has been destroyed??
#33 – eCa
Huh?
The real test of personal character is to not demonize others when you’re under threat or otherwise in great fear.
America collectively failed that test after 911.
People will do it because they are sheep.
Gullible, simple-minded sheeple.
Cursor_
To Rich:
It doesn’t take much across the heart to throw it into arrhythmia.
On the other hand you can cook a calf muscle and not kill the person.
#10, what about the 50% who vote Democrat, and vote for higher taxes as well and/or smaller cars and higher gas prices?
‘We do what we’re told’ Peter Gabriel- I think it was only 63% back then. Progress, no doubt.
Research such as this usually has (and had) military applications. And so I wonder who sponsored it back then, and now? Were they trying to determine what measures it took to get personnel to torture prisoners? Or just how to screen out those that wouldn’t, early? And what their success rate would be? This also has other military applications. Like for bomber aircraft pilots. At what altitude would pilots least fail to drop their load on targets below, if they couldn’t recognize populated villages. Or what sort of propaganda it took to get bomber pilots to stop recognizing their targets as human beings. These questions probably came up post Korean War. Interesting that Milgram’s research was done at the start of the Vietnam War. I wonder who funded it.
#5- “Just in time for the holiday season.”
You may be right about that Eyeofthetiger, more than you know. I suspect we’ll be hearing all sorts of “Nazi” related things, with that new Tom Cruise movie coming out (in time for Christmas). This item isn’t the only thing I’ve seen of late. PBS’s History Detectives, reran some WW2 related stories. There’s no other reason why this particular Christmas needs to be a time to recall Nazi atrocities, except to help promote this inappropriately timed movie, and its revisionist view of what moral guys the German military conspirators must have been. But why did they wait until they were losing the war, to try and kill Hitler? I think it was more likely they were hoping to get a better leader, to turn things around. And Hilter wasn’t their only “monster”. But they apparently didn’t go after the rest of them. They just followed their orders, very well.
#41 – GlennE
>>And so I wonder who sponsored it back then,
>>and now?
I don’t know who funds it now, but in 1961, it was the National Science Foundation (NSF) that funded Milgram’s research. You can look it up.
#41
> But why did they wait until
> they were losing the war, to
> try and kill Hitler?
There are a number of reasons they waited. The First is loyalty. Being a soldier, it is not easy to conspire to kill the man who pulled your country out of the depression into a world power much less killing your leader. Second, they were rightfully scared for their families. If anyone in the conspiracy breaks, you all lose. Rommel was lucky in that he was given a choice. Most of the other general’s families were not so lucky. Third, it is not simple to pull off. It is not easy to simply walk up to the man and shoot him knowing you’d be shot yourself especially late in the war when Hitler became really paranoid. Fourth, you have to have a plan for success and that means a person to take his place to sue for peace with the allies. Lastly, they weren’t completely convinced he was out to lunch until ’43 or so. He did take Czechoslovakia without a fight. He did take Poland in a month as well as France. Some of the generals stated that after France, they were convinced he was a visionary.
#43–Which all goes to show the WW2 German Military Leadership under Tom Cruise could care less about atrocities of any sort. ALL THEY CARED ABOUT was winning the war and at that Hitler was losing. So, time to off him.
A lot of Hitlers Bunker Mentality and self delusion can be seen in the War Against Terrorism currently being conducted with Torture by our current regime. Unfortunately, our Military Leaders don’t care that much about losing. I think they are expecting a bailout.
AND IF’
Hitler had STOPPED, after taking most of Europe and SUED for peace…RECONSTRUCTED and REBUILT.
This would be a VERY different world.
450 volts? What’s the big deal? You receive more than that when you get shocked by static electricity. Torture? Hardly.
I was part of this experiment when I was in college. I had already read about it so I just amped up the voltage on everyone to hear the actors yell.
#46 – Paddy-RAMBO
Since you’re so unimpressed by voltage, why not try this experiment:
Insert a high-tension electric cable in your ass.
Let us know how it goes. If yoou’re askeered of the idea of 35,000 volts, here’s a candy-ass experiment to try:
Stick your tongue in an AC outlet.
Since that’s only 120V, you should pass this test with flying colors.
Are you really the dummy you seem, or are you just unable to resist supporting torture?
In any case, brainiac, no one was actually shocked. RTFA. They were just funnin’ the dupes.
# 49 Mister Mustard said, “If yoou’re askeered of the idea of 35,000 volts, here’s a candy-ass experiment to try”
Hardly. You can generate that amount of voltage walking across a carpet.
It must suck to be as uneducated as you.
Well, Paddy-O=== this thread is about people being willing to torture people by hearing them yell when a dial is at “150” and they keep pushing it to the max of “450.” It appears they do not know the amount at amps that are supposedly being delivered==but at those amps, the yelling in pain starts at “150.”
You appear to have your head where Mustard wants you to place that electrode of his ((no doubt with his ever present astrolube)) to respond that 35,000 volts is experienced walking across the carpet.
With your ee degree, you know other factors need to be taken into account, factors that were unknown and irrelevant to the test subjects.
You for some reason use your knowledge and intelligence to look really stupid and without a touch of sarcasm. Is your mission in life to be a stooge for Mr Mustard????? He has enough fun with Pedro, why not give the rest of us a break? You can do better.
# 51 bobbo said, “but at those amps, the yelling in pain starts at “150.””
At what amps booboo?
#52==Paddy==they were FAKE–like your responses here. Think of Spinal Taps Volume Knob going to “11”.
I was reading the other day about an understanding of “sarcasm” being one of the first mental skills to go with advancing alzheimers.
Thinking in the abstract and determining what is relevant must follow very quickly.
#54–Calls for more astrolube. Mustard must go to one of those “all day Saturday” churches.
#50 – Paddy-RAMBO
So let us know how the high-tension experiment goes, won’t you?
It must suck even more to be a rube like you, RAMBO. You are truly one of a kind.
#55 – Bobo
I have no idea wtf you’re talking about, but it looks like my previous astrolube comment unleashed pent-up floodgates of need in you.
Yuck.
#52 – Paddy-RAMBO
>>At what amps booboo?
Aw, RAMBO. You’re starting to look pathetic. Don’t pretend that just because you work the counter at Radio Shack, you understand the mysteries of electricity.
Neither the volts NOR the amperage matter a tinker’s dam. They key to the experiment was that the dupes were TOLD that as they twiddled the knob higher, the pain increased.
That’s all you need to know.
I’m sure even a Radio Shack counter boy can understand that, no?
# 53 bobbo said, “#52==Paddy==they were FAKE”
Exactly! Any person with an IQ of 80 or above would have realized it. So, the “conclusions” drawn from this “test” are false.
Ergo, 70% of the population wouldn’t torture.
Do you get it now?
#59–Paddy-O==how can you tell if a knob is hooked up to electricity or not?
by its color?????????
# 60 bobbo said, “#59–Paddy-O==how can you tell if a knob is hooked up to electricity or not?”
Well, booboo. You realize that it is illegal in this country to torture? This was done at a US University. So, I would realize that there was nothing truly dangerous going on. To really torture someone with electricity requires a dangerous amount of current.
I guess maybe the test subjects were of your IQ level or below. The guy should have dministered IQ tests to see if it was representative of the US population…
“It was the people that were administering the shock that were the “real” test subjects. When they talk about the experience being stressful, they are referring to the people administering the shocks who genuinely thought they were shocking people – and yet did it anyway.”
I realize that. Most people know, I believe, that the 120 volts found all over your house is potentially lethal. Shouldn’t they then be suspicious of the “150 volts” used on the other “test subjects”?
Ok… no doubt…the NSF funded this *study* as
well.
here is one SCU grant that looks like this study would fall under take note of this:
“How Ethics and Values Shape Biological Control Practice and Policy.”
—-snip —-
Keith Warner OFM, Environmental Studies, received a grant for $31,353 from the National Science Foundation to support Managed Risk in the Public Interest: How Ethics and Values Shape Biological Control Practice and Policy. This funding is for the first year of an anticipated three-year award. Warner also received second year funding of $34,181 in fall 2007 from the California Department of Food and Agriculture to support “Institutional Aspects of Biological Control.” With this amendment, the award totals $68,096, providing funding for research into the scientific, economic, and policy factors shaping pesticide alternatives in California agriculture.
—-snip —-
as a matter of fact.. it looks like SCU is nothing but a government test center for the DoE, NSF, NIH and NASA amongst others.. (i’m sure most university
are as well but..)
here is a link to their current grants from 2006 forward:
http://www.scu.edu/excellence/faculty/grants.cfm
most interesting…think i’ll forage other universitie’s grants to see what lies ahead for us..
-s
# 63–soundwash==I see what your nick means now, all I can read is a bunch of white noise. If you want to troll a thread, you have to shoot bullets, not a mystifying fog. Which of your 10 points do you really want a response on??
Of koolaid==you’ve already drunk it if you think “the financial crises” hasen’t already occurred rather than posing it soon arrive. Like a tsunami–its waves and the first few have already hit. No need to walk to the shoreline to watch for the next wave.
Paddy==ok. I tried to give you a break, but I’ll take your gibberish at face value. You don’t understand the subject of this thread at all. I can’t tell if you are floating in and out of lucidity, or if its my own desire to be kind to dumb animals. Its that close.