This proves that bigger is not better. It’s a problem. This vid is a propaganda piece done by the big 3.
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oUT OF THAT 150 billion….
HOW much of that of it BELONGS to the upper CRUST..
They might as well ask what would happen if all power plants shut down, or if all interstate trucking stopped. Extremely unlikely and fearmongering for dollars.
Most likely one or more investment groups would snap all of the assets up and retool (and renegotiate all contracts) to work on leaner and better cars. Like the lovely diesel car ford won’t sell here because they think we won’t buy it.
fUEL EFFICENTCY??
From 10-22 mpg??
Largest purchaser of computer chips?? and the MOST expensive SELLER…they could make 1-2 computers that could control ALL OF IT, and those $0.50 chips..
610,000 WORKERS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES?? MORE then USA workers, isnt it??
$693 billion from DEALERS?? and only $10billion in TAX??
They can only collapse once.
I’ve driven Toyotas for about 10 years. So do most of the people I know.
Rental cars are often GM or Ford products and every time I ride in one, I’m reminded of how poorly every aspect of them is designed.
The dash, the controls, the seat controls.
This is an additional to the longevity of the vehicles. A Toyota easily lasts 200,000 miles and never needs anything except routine maintenance.
Ford and GM took the Bethlehem Steel model of basing their business models on the 1960s.
The 1960s was:
1. No foreign competition
2. The USA was disproportionately superwealthy, while Asia was just a big rice field and Mao was starving China.
3. Russia and their plan to bankrupt themselves plus Eastern Europe.
4. The USA was very young, agewise.
5. Europe couldn’t compete with us because their populace was still recovering from the demographic damage WWII caused.
They took these conditions … these once in a millennium conditions … and decided to turn it into a business plan.
1. Union this
2. Big fat retirement that
3. Planned obsolescence and produced
4. “Unsafe At Any Speed” vehicles
5. .. that require a lifetime of replacement parts and service.
6. And require more fuel than a good conscience can provide.
As if the world would never change.
As if Ford and GM were the world.
They’ve been planning to fail for 50 years, almost by intent.
It can’t be stopped.
Their corporate culture is all wrong, their work ethic and commitment to quality are not high enough to be competitive.
They’ve been at it for 50 years and their collapse is inevitable. Just like dinosaurs.
These companies are modern day fossils that don’t fit in into the modern world.
Time to add the rise and fall of US automotive empire to the History Channel right after the Railroad Empires, the Oil Barons and the story of the Vanderbilts.
uhm.. In case you were worried.. The North American auto industry is NOT (thanks ECA) about to collapse. yes, period. git over it
So lets see what Detroit is guilty of is actually paying working class people a good salary and making sure they have health care and a good retirement, while producing products that our governments cheap oil policy caused people to want (big cars, trucks and SUVs). I will grant that they should have seen the writing on the wall when it came to cheap oil and moved faster to make fuel efficient vehicles but lets be honest if oil was cheep again what most Americans would want to drive are big cars, trucks, & SUVs, not small efficient cars.
I my life I have owned vehicles made by AMC, Chevy, Volkswagen, Renault, Mazda, Dodge, GMC, & Ford. The Mazda & Dodge both went 15 years before they rusted out so bad they feel apart and I will put the Ford Fusion I have know up against other car in it’s class, and I expect the GMC Pickup I have know to easily go 20 years (I got smart and rust proofed this one).
Thanks,
Fuck capitalism, I reckon what really need to do is rally behind the people who runs companies now, especially those that are running them poorly and making bad decision, and give them large sums of tax-payers money so they can make everything better, give everyone jobs, and make us all stronger and richer and prettier. While we are at, we should ban any sort of competition amongst companies, especially by people who are younger/harder working/smarter or just plain better. What we should do is make sure that those whose parents are already wealthy will be the future leaders of tomorrow. After all, where has a meritocracy, competition, and free enterprise every got us?
Truly amazing journalism . . . Without contesting a single fact, Dvorak has managed to call this video a lie.
Now if he could only lose some weight, gain some intelligence and start using drugs . . . he would be indistinguishable from Limbaugh.
GM collapse3d in 84
[Duplicate comment deleted. Please don’t double post! – ed.]
I work for Continental Tire, in manufacturing in Illinois. And I am seeing the effects of the auto industry first hand. Right now, Nissan has suspended production until the new year and GM may do so as well. The effect: 200 temporary employees have lost their jobs (temporary is literally just a title. some of these “temporaries” have been working at the plant for over 2 years, some longer), hours are being cut back drastically, there is a possibly plant shutdown approaching in the next few weeks, and potential layoffs are looming ahead.
So yes. There is a ripple effect. Maybe not as drastic as the video states, but there definitely is one, and i’m feeling it right now.
They avoided a key point.
What is going to prevent them from coming back in a couple years and holding the same threat over us.
Bankruptcy is the solution. Clean out the deadwood and upper management, then start with a leaner organization.
At least GM produces something you can use. Yeah they’re big and wasteful trucks and SUVs, but they are a tangible good. I’d rather bail them out than keep dumping a skyscraper full of money every two weeks into AIG and the foreign banks. Why should I care if a CEO doesn’t get his bonus. I liked the sign featured here earlier “Go ahead and jump you f@#$3rs!”
The US automakers have had 30+ years to clean up their act. Last I saw, they were pushing SUVs, extra profitable because they don’t need to be as safe as cars.
$25 billion now. $25 billion next year. $25 billion the year after that. Uh huh.
Meanwhile, USA companies still receiving tax incentives to off shore jobs.
Most newsreaders and “experts” talk uncritically about the benefits and rightness of “fair and open trade” and Bill Gates is respected as a business leader when testifying for the need of foreign workers.
EVERYTHING the USA has done for the last 30 years, and CONTINUING TODAY, is consistent with an intentional design to bankrupt the USA. Bailout of the auto industry would only continue this. Bankruptcy is what SHOULD HAPPEN to outmoded/failed industries. Bail them out, and USA joins the bankruptcy just a bit sooner.
Stoopid Hoomans.
And the future holds the distinct prospect of CHINESE CARS AND TRUCKS! They are likely to be pretty decent quality and price-wise as opposed to the junk the Japanese started selling here.
IF China is allowed to send their cars and trucks here, TURN OUT THE LIGHTS, THE PARTY’S OVER. Since we’ve allowed everybody and his cousin into the US with their vehicles, we can’t say no to China. Cheap goods for years comes back to bury us.
Thomas:
“Truly amazing journalism . . . Without contesting a single fact, Dvorak has managed to call this video a lie. ”
-he doesn’t have to contest anything directly, anyone with half an intellect realizes this is propaganda bs.
-and it doesn’t really matter anyway, because they are GOING TO BE BAILED OUT NO MATTE WHAT WE SAY. i just hope there are conditions on the cash they get.
** Must Read ** 10 Cars That Sank Detroit
http://www.usnews.com/blogs/flowchart/2008/11/14/10-cars-that-sank-detroit.html
Ford Pinto. This ill-fated subcompact came to epitomize the arrogance of Big Auto. Ford hurried the Pinto to market in the early 1970s to battle cheap imports like the Volkswagen Beetle that were selling for less than $2,000. Initial sales were strong, but quality problems emerged. Then came the infamous safety problems with exploding fuel tanks, which Ford refused to acknowledge. Message: The customer comes last.
Chevrolet Cavalier. GM sold millions of Cavaliers in the 1980s—and decided the thrifty car was so successful the company didn’t need to update it for more than a decade.
Ford Taurus. Try to explain this logic: After its 1986 debut, the Taurus became a perennial bestseller. So for the next 20 years, Ford let quality decline and neglected the family sedan, while pouring love and money into trucks and SUVs.
[Duplicate comment deleted. Please don’t double post! – ed.]
Blackmail, and not even subtle…
I hope we let these companies go belly up.
Personally I think they are only making it look worse than it is so they can unload their unions and benefit packages.
Once they do they won’t pass the savings along to the car buying consumer, they will only line their own pockets with the money.
As for national security, Chrysler unloaded their tank division when, back in the late 70’s or 80’s when we had to bail them out then.
Americans will continue to need and to purchase cars and trucks, they would simply go to Toyota and the other companies to buy them. In turn they would up production, hire more American workers and buy more widgets from the supply lines to make those cars and trucks. Maybe just maybe they would innovate as they have been doing and give the people what they want. High mileage, dependable vehicles and not the plastic crap the big 3 have been giving us.
It amazes me that the big 3 continue to build crap and cry that Americans are buying cars from the Japanese and Germans.
# 18 atmusky said, “So lets see what Detroit is guilty of is actually paying working class people a good salary and making sure they have health care and a good retirement, while producing products that our governments cheap oil policy caused people to want (big cars, trucks and SUVs).”
What ARE you babbling about?
1) The companies ignored the fact that competition was global and didn’t produce designs or employment contracts that reflected that fact.
2) The US gov’t doesn’t dictate the price of oil.
What planet do you live on?
Before inauguration Paluson will have run through a trillion dollars with no noticeable impact on the economy, and direct give away to republicans (some call it looting before the adults show up), I fail to see how diverting 25-50 billion of that to a legitimate business is a problem.
The UAW standard of living is nothing compared to AIG executives.
LOL, look at the republicans, whine whine whine, its ok with us when rich republican bankers get the money, but Nooooo!!! if some working class people get the money, they get all whiny and panicky.
LOL.
#16, Mark,
The Ford Pinto was a huge money maker for Ford. With very few modifications, they used most of the same components to build the Mustang II. They were very different cars but used almost all the same parts. The exploding fuel tank? Gee, most vehicles had the tank behind the axle. It was ruptured because someone hit them from behind with a much larger vehicle at high speed.
The Cavalier? Yup. It sold well and lasted a long time. If it was such crap people wouldn’t have bought it. BTW, did you ever drive a Toyota Tercel? Go ahead and then call the Cavalier a piece of shit.
The Ford Taurus? Another one that Ford has made a lot of money from. Hey, I have a 2001 and am very happy with it. So far I’ve changed the antifreeze, battery, and tires and fixed a leak in the Windshield Washer hose. I’m about to replace the front valve cover gasket as it is leaking. Not bad for 110,000+ miles. The upholstery has a few stains from when the kid was younger and there are a couple of dings and scratches on the body.
The auto makers built vehicles that people wanted to buy. I would have thought that was a good thing. Why build something customers won’t buy? When tastes changed, it did catch them in a bit of a bind. BUT, don’t forget that ALL the auto makers are having it rough at the moment.
The GM EV-1? Ha !!! It was only good for in town driving because of the range. There wasn’t a market for them at the time and thus they just cost way too much. Should GM have kept pouring money into a project that had no future at the time?
# 22 GregA said, “LOL, look at the republicans, whine whine whine, its ok with us when rich republican bankers get the money,”
Interesting point except for the FACT that a majority of Repubs voted AGAINST the “bailout” bill while a majority of Dems voted FOR it.
Only a Democratic congress would think this makes sense. Despite strong opposition from Republicans and President Bush, Democrats plan to press ahead with legislation aimed at supporting the auto industry when Congress convenes this week.
Let’s take a look at the numbers.
$25 billion: amount of the Bailout to the Big Three
$ 7 billion: actual stock value of the Big Three
WTF?
The amount of money the Democrats want to spend on bailout loans could buy Detroit’s Big Three, and perhaps have enough left over for a German automaker or two.
Paddy-O,
European countries have had a high cost oil policy by funding much of their governments costs through energy taxes. The result is small cars and more public transportation in Europe than the US.
The US has not had the same policy and the result has been lower cost fuel and larger cars and less public transportation. So yes I do believe the Government policies significantly impact the cost of fuel.
If you think allowing the standard of living of the working class in the US to be rolled back to what it was a 100 years ago in the name of “competition” or “capitalism” is a good idea that is your choice. I do not.
Rule of thumb: Any company that becomes so big that if it goes belly up it could seriously hurt the economy…
NEEDS TO BE BROKEN UP UNDER ANTI-MONOPOLY LAWS BEFORE THIS HAPPENS!!
Reagan’s ending of the enforcement of antitrust laws in the 80’s is directly responsible for the mess we are in today.
# 28 atmusky said, “If you think allowing the standard of living of the working class in the US to be rolled back to what it was a 100 years ago in the name of “competition” or “capitalism” is a good idea that is your choice. I do not.”
And you think that preventing foreign cheaper better products from entering the US market is going to increase the standard of living for low skilled workers in the US?
Funny thing the GM plant here in Arlington TX is working overtime now producing those anti green but wonderful SUV’s that you all love to hate (and that own )My Tahoe has 220k miles ans I will put it up against any foreign car out there on fit and finish and reliability
The Unions killed the big 3, a man pushing a broom doesn’t need to make 40k a year with full medical and retirement and no chance to get fired because he does a bad job. The big 3 let the unions push them around and figured they would fix it later, well it is later and now they need to file bankruptcy get out of their union contracts renegotiate a good contract and come out swinging and competitive