Your thoughts on same sex marriage and civil unions.
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#193, creamcitian
are you saying government = civil union and religion = marriage?
does your civil union guarantee all the same rights that a marriage currently guarantees?
Yes. If you choose to get married in a church, you can choose to either sign a prenup describing what is included and not included or just accept the “standard” contract as defined now.
If you choose to not get married in a church, you still have all the rights of either the standard contract or as specified in a prenup.
In this way, churches can decide if they want to marry a particular couple (or triumvirate or . .) or not.
However, with this comes the responsibility of the government keeping their nose OUT of their business. Freedom of association should apply across all the spectrum and should be enforced. Freedom of association here means the association must be a voluntary two-way street (no homophobe pun intended) and not forced upon either party.
what restrictions would you put on the civil union?
That is entirely up to the partners.
To understand the the high level issue is key.
The term ‘marriage’ has been adopted by the religious population as something Godly and spiritual. Unfortunately, the term has worked into government and laws – THAT IS THE ISSUE.
The answer is for the government to abandon the term marriage adopt the term “civil unions”. You will see that the problem goes away for the vast majority – less the fanatical fringe.
Guys cannot get married and even dream of producing kids. It just ain’t the same thing stupid. There’s a lot of gays out there that are treated like third class citizens by the “gay community”. The people who say they speak for the every faggot are self centered egomaniacs. I’m gay and I hate this gay marriage crap. I’m glad it’s been voted down. What’s really funny, is that Ellen helped get equal rights for all chickens in California, spending time and energy on her show to promote proposition 2, yet she failed to influence the public on gay marriage. Why? Because both straight and gay don’t want it. Gay marriage actually rips away rights from those gay couples who don’t want to be married. The people who push gay marriage are only out for themselves.
YAWN! why are we still protesting this?
I’ve been with my partner for 12 years, we have an 8 year old son.
My family does not receive the same recognition that our neighbor with his 3 ex wives has received.
We’re taxed at a HIGHER rate than a married couple- with out any benefits-
For us this is all about economics- until the fed recognizes “gay marriage” “gay unions” with the same tax benefits, social security benefits and the like we are treated as 2nd class citizens. It’s all good- i wonder when this Atlas will Shrug
#177 creamcitian said, said,”ok, semantics aside, denying someone the ability to do something because of their sexual preference is wrong.”
No one is. Like I said. A gay person can get married the same as I. Same “rights”.
#250 – Paddy-RAMBO
>>No one is. Like I said. A gay person can get
>>married the same as I. Same “rights”.
The more you proffer this asinine argument, the more of an ass you seem.
You can marry whomever you want. A gay person cannot. Unequal “rights”.
Got it, RAMBO? Or has your GodHatesFags mentality completely impaired your ability to think and reason?
I fear to tread here as just recently “someone” complained about using the dictionary for the basis of an argument—still:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/right
is instructive. Right: #5. Means Straight.
So, no Paddycakes, the gays are not straight, and do not have this right.
Ahhh, the word play is multi-layered.
@Paddy-O – “No one is. Like I said. A gay person can get married the same as I. Same “rights”.” – i must have missed this argument before, sorry Paddy-O, but i don’t see how that is true – in most municipalities in the U.S. gay people are denied marriage and the government protected rights marriage provides heterosexual couples.
@LibertyLover i see. So equal rights is ok, but the government should stop using the word marriage for all involved. gotcha.
#253 – cream
>>i must have missed this argument before,
Probably you saw it, but just skipped over it because it’s so asinine and pointless.
What Paddy-RAMBO is saying is that, just as he’s free to marry the woman of his choosing, so a gay man is free to marry the woman of his choosing, or a lesbian is free to marry the man of her choosing.
That is to say, they’re all free to do WHAT PADDY-RAMBO WANTS TO DO, not free to do what THEY WANT TO DO.
As long as Paddy-RAMBO gets HIS way, he thinks everything is hunky-dory, regardless of the oppression and inequality heaped on those who want to do something else.
@Mister Mustard – ahhh, i see. thanks for the info.
Wow, I’m aleays amazed at the number of responses the “gay marriage posts bring, and how many of themare vehemetly opposed to the idea from a liberal blog.
As a gay male in a committed reltionship, I feel the whole gay rights movement screwed themselves by calling it gay marriage
If a couple wants to get married for the sympolic side of it, there’s plenty of gay- friendly churchs that will perform marriage rights. My partner and I are both staunch atheists and we knw we are committed to eachoher for the rest of our lives. It would be nice not to have to go throught hops to get both our names on the mortgage or to have visiting right should one of us be in the hospital without having to draw up powers of attorney
As I said it before and I’ll say it again. Those are you that are supporting gay marriage are so belligerent in your comments it’s just down right funny. I oppose gay marriage because what I chose for myself is different. The question here was whether you oppose or are for gay marriage. It’s not both. Having said, that I don’t mind and I don’t care if two men marry. It doesn’t irk me the wrong way. It doesn’t irk me at all. But I myself like marriage to be between man and women, being able to conceive kids naturally. And it appears in your efforts to win this battle, you’re willing to denounce, deface, flame, make false accusations of others.
This has nothing to do with religion or any religiours thoughts. It’s a choice I’ve made, much like a choice gay people eventually make for themselves. I’m Catholic, Buddhist and sometimes even Atheist. I choose what I think is best to live by. I’ve always done it since I grew up. No one taught me to think this way. Not religion, not schooling, not my parents, not my teachers, not the government. It was me looking out int the world and seeing both the bad and the good and making the choices I believe to be right and true. To me, there is not right ONE way of doing things or how things are done. This applies to gay marriage as well. But this doesn’t mean I have to join.
Leave your belligerent accusations aside and just state why your are for or against gay marriage. This topic isn’t going to be resolve by you or anyone, less anyone making ignorant accusations. If you’re for paper dictating what you should believe go for it. If you’re for religion dictating what you should believe in go for it. All I know is that in the end, I choose marriage between a man and a women and being able to conceive a child, regardless of the time period we’re in.
If you really want this to be addressed properly, how about posing the question such as “how do you feel about gay marriage?” Terms such as “support” tends to just start argument wars rather than provide anything useful to discuss about.
@The0ne – “Those are you that are supporting gay marriage are so belligerent in your comments it’s just down right funny.” – I’ve been belligerent?
#248, Stupid,
Guys cannot get married and even dream of producing kids. It just ain’t the same thing stupid.
When my wife’s aunt remarried she couldn’t dream of having kids either.She is early 60s and had her plumbing rearranged years ago. But hey !!! We know she will be happy with her new man even if procreation isn’t in the cards. BTW, she didn’t have any children during her first marriage.
Gay marriage actually rips away rights from those gay couples who don’t want to be married.
Geeze, that sure as heck confused the poop out of me. How does being granted equal rights now rip away any right you had earlier? If you don’t want to marry, you can’t be forced to. If you prefer to “live in sin” or “co-habitate” then fine, go for it. If you supported a child in a union before, you may just be forced to help support that child in the future without benefit of a marriage.
#257 – The One
>>I oppose gay marriage because what I chose for
>>myself is different.
Non sequitur. What you choose for yourself, and what you choose to criminalize when other people do it are two separate and unrelated (or at least they SHOULD be unrelated) things.
I choose not to put salt on my food; I choose to vacation in the Cayman Islands, heck, I even choose to marry a woman. That doesn’t mean I think people who are heavy on the saltshaker, who vacation in Cancúu, or who want to marry a member of their own sex should have their choices made illegal.
>>Having said, that I don’t mind and I don’t
>>care if two men marry.
So then what’s the problem? You marry a woman and some other guy can marry a man. Everybody’s happy. Except for the busybodies who feel it’s their moral obligation to prevent others from doing what they themselves choose not to do, even though it has absolutely no impact on any aspect of their lives.
Gay men can’t have kids? This is surprising!
Do you get the big V when “choose the lifestyle” and sign up to be gay?
Bleh, the biggest homophobes are usually the biggest closet homos *coughlarrycraig*
Plus, if Civil Unions had the same legal weight as Marriages this would have never happened. It also apply IF (and that if is bigger than mount Rushmore) the Bible thumpers played fair. They were advertising that legalizing gay marriages in California would have forced churches to allow same-sex marriage ceremonies. The truth is that churches/synagogues/temples had (and still has) the right to not allow such ceremonies and yet the supporters of prop 8 lied about it.
It’s nobody’s business but the persons involved;
not the public’s, not organized religion’s and most certainly not the government’s
You can’t legislate morality, folks, no matter how much you want to.
I dont hunt, so we can Outlaw guns..
I dont eat meat, so we can Outlaw BEEF..
I love persons that dont look at the OTHER side of the coin.
You love a person, FOR WHOM THEY ARE.
you want to share that, and GIVE to them the benefits you have to share.
Insurance, tax benefits, Health care…
Looking at CULTURE BEFORE the WHITE man spread to EVERY KNOWN LAND and instituted his IDEAL OF RIGHT WRONG and religion.. Many cultures HAD/STILL DO had open relationships between ALL/everyone with NO GUILT..
Wasnt it the tree of knowledge, that Instilled GUILT into the minds of Adam and Eve?
Before that GOD was a Voyeur.. with 2 free hands..
# 264 ECA said, “I dont hunt, so we can Outlaw guns.. I dont eat meat, so we can Outlaw BEEF..”
You don’t eat whales, so you are okay MAKING a law that allows the slaughter of whales so others can eat them? Right?
#265 paddy
Do you have a solid base to substantiate your claims other than a Palin-like snapping retort?
#257 – The0ne,
But I myself like marriage to be between man and women, being able to conceive kids naturally.
I’ll try not to make any false accusations. However, I will point out that not all married straight people are breeders. I am a proud recipient of the golden snip award personally and have been married for 21 years.
There are a lot of legal issues that are just easier when married to the one you love. There’s hospital visitation, inheritance, next of kinship, decisions of life and death. All of this is automatically and correctly conveyed to one’s lover with a simple legal document called a marriage certificate.
I understand that you are not opposing same sex marriage legally. But, you may want to think about your preference and the statement made above that homosexual lovers are treated as second class citizens.
Are we really still living in the dark ages? (Actually yes.) Do we want to be doing so going forward? It’s about civil rights. Societies that care about human beings are free with them. Societies ruled (generally) by religious fundamentalists, as the majority of those opposed to same sex marriage are, tend to be very comfortable denying rights to those with different beliefs or sexuality or any other difference they choose for the day.
(Mr. Mustard, I carefully specified the fundies, to avoid our usual sidetrack for a change.)
Gee, did someone say links. Hey Paddy-O, are you watching? Here’s a link.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-h6xWyWvK0
See how easy that is?
Here’s another.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73oZ_pe1MZ8
So, it seems that he wants to make sure that at least the rights of the LBGT community are respected. He wants at least civil unions that provide the same benefits as marriage. He’s not personally married to the term marriage, however.
Personally, I disagree. I want it called marriage. I agree with the remark in the second video about civil unions being a lot like “separate but equal”.
Still though, no matter how it ends up worded, he is for protecting at least the right to have a union with identical benefits to marriage. So, Paddy-O, you’re dead wrong. He is not denying anyone’s rights on this subject.
#265, Cow-Paddy, Ignorant Shit Talking Sociopath,
If you read ECA’s post carefully, you will note he was being sarcastic as hell about outlawing guns and beef.
When I read your post, all I saw was ignorance, stupidity, and sociopathic behavior. You really are a sick one.
#268 – Me,
Oops. I posted this on the wrong thread. On another topic Paddy-O-Troll was asserting that Obama is denying rights to the LBGT community. The source of my confusion is obvious since it’s more relevant on this topic.
Here’s the other.
http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=31268
Discussing this has become a joke now as I had predicted in the first place. False assumptions are made and people are just too upset and angry to discuss this properly.
And no Creamcitian, you have not been belligerent. If anything you have been rational although repeating the same things over and over to clarify your point across.
People seem to think that when a person makes a choice on a matter then that person absolutely hates whatever is that they didn’t decide on. This isn’t helping any of you arguing for gay marriage at all.
#271, Theone,
When someone makes an opinion based upon incorrect information, a biased attitude previously instilled, or just for sheer hate, then yes their opinion is wrong.
If you care to read the previous 269 posts you will notice a trend. The gay bashers and anti marriage types don’t have any reason for their beliefs.
On the other hand, those in favor of equal rights for gays can back up WHY they deserve the same marriage rights as the rest of us.
You can’t say that this is YOUR opinion. Why? Because opinions are based upon a person’s life, likes, desires, and instilled hate. People aren’t born hating anyone. They learn to hate others from what they are taught.
If you feel marriage should only be between male and female then that decision has been influenced somehow. You claim that gay marriages don’t produce offspring. True, but they can and do adopt. Yet you don’t seem to have an opinion of infertile couples marrying.
people who dont approve of gay marrage why should you care. your not the one getting married. if people can marry there pets why cant people marry the same sex, its not that big of a deal. if yr against gay marriage then shut up your not the one having it.
i was raised to believe that in the USA what’s fair for one is fair for all. so my instinct is to support it. i also cannot logically reason that there is one legitimate downside if homosexuals could legally get married. I have heard economist say it would generate a billion to our economy annually and the increase in child adoptions would be considerable.
all the rhetoric i hear against it seems to stem from religious beliefs which is ridiculous as it is strictly a legal issue. no church is forced to marry anybody right now, the catholics won’t marry anyone but catholics or am i wrong? they don’t even recognize marriage from ANY other church. me and the misses happen to be atheist so religion is irrelevant in our marriage, and we didn’t get married in a church, and yet, our marriage is legally the same as anyone’s. again, it’s strictly a legal issue.
I don’t buy into calling homosexual marriage anything else but marriage either. This is the sort of thinking that makes some people think that if you call a blind man visually challenged it somehow means he is not blind. So call it what it is and don’t play word games to appease the cretins. Enough already.