Barack Obama has lived one version of the American Dream that has taken him to the steps of the White House. But a few miles from where the Democratic presidential candidate studied at Harvard, his Kenyan aunt and uncle, immigrants living in modest circumstances in Boston, have a contrasting American story.
Zeituni Onyango, the aunt so affectionately described in Mr Obama’s best-selling memoir Dreams from My Father, lives in a disabled-access flat on a rundown public housing estate in South Boston.
A second relative believed to be the long-lost “Uncle Omar” described in the book was beaten by armed robbers with a “sawed-off rifle” while working in a corner shop in the Dorchester area of the city. He was later evicted from his one-bedroom flat for failing to pay $2,324.20 (£1,488) arrears, according to the Boston Housing Court.
#71 Interesting, but anything tied to absolute $ amounts just encourages the gov’t to create inflation thus negating the benefits listed in the “prebate” section. Classic flaw.
# 73 Sea Lawyer
“A progressive tax system is disproportionate.”
Your right. The proportion of benefits for those with higher income is far greater than those with a lower income. We may pay more but we also benefit more. Anyone who says we don’t is a liar or a greedy bastard.
#73–SL==the “fair tax” is disproportionate as well.
It all depends on what you compare the tax to.
Earned income? Discretionary Income? Hourly Wage? Passive/Active Income? etc.
In short==there is no such thing as “fair”–only who’s ox get gored, and what a society needs to do to keep the waring classes on their computers and out of the streets.
#75, you cannot separate taxation and property from your economic central planning, as you’ll find it quite difficult to dictate to others what to produce when they possess all of the wealth and capital.
So, everyone calling O’bama a Marxist really only has one point to connect him with it. He wants to continue the progressive tax system that we have had in America for a very long time.
LOL So fucking lame!!!! That being the case then McCain is also a Marxist. I don’t hear him saying he was going to discontinue the graduated tax system.
#76 – Jimmie Hill
Your poverty is noted.
Just pray that they won’t restrict the welfare criteria, like they did under Bill.
#81 – J
>>That being the case then McCain is also a
>>Marxist. I don’t hear him saying he was going
>>to discontinue the graduated tax system.
Of course he’s not saying that.
He’s more of a frigging Marxist Commie pig than President Obama would EVER be.
Take that, Repugs, and stuff it.
TIA
#79, No matter how rich or how poor you are, every dollar you spend is taxed equally under the Fair Tax. What makes the tax “progressive” in nature is the rebate, but since everybody gets the same rebate I’ll reluctantly swallow it as it’s still fundamentally better to tax consumption than to tax productivity.
#81, I didn’t know Obama was Irish.
#78 J “We may pay more but we also benefit more.”
Hmm, as I’ve gotten along in life and pay more & more in taxes, I’m still stuck with the same level of taxpayer funded services as someone who pays less in taxes. Actually, many services aren’t available unless, you pay less in taxes.
Ergo, you are wrong.
# 84 Sea Lawyer
“it’s still fundamentally better to tax consumption than to tax productivity.”
We don’t tax productivity we tax income. The two are unrelated. One does not have to be productive to have an income.
85 Sea Lawyer
O’bama is a South Side Joke!!! I think it is funny.
# 86 Paddy Cake the Ignorant Shit Talker.
It figures a dolt like you wouldn’t understand the concept. It isn’t about social programs dipshit.
#78, I’m heartened to see that the notion is still alive and well that nobody earns what they have or that goals, ambition, ability, intelligence, motivation are never better explanations for what people achieve in life than that they simply found and exploited a juicier government meal ticket.
Who’s more greedy, the guy who just wants to keep more of his own money, or the guy who wants to use the power of government to take somebody else’s?
#91, Who’s more greedy, the guy who just wants to keep more of his own money, or the guy who wants to use the power of government to take somebody else’s?
Well put. I think that sums up the entire argument in one, succinct sentence. Again, well put.
# 91 Sea Lawyer
Nobody? No. Just many that don’t. Show me a rich man and I will show you someone who has lied, cheated, inherited, or done some unethical things to get there. With VERY VERY rare exceptions.
As to the point of my post. There are tons of people that earn all their income from being nothing but money changers. THEY PRODUCE NOTHING!!!!!!
# 92 bobbo
Thank you bobbo you said what I am too tired to say.
#90 “I would say the laws that protect your business interests/wealth qualify as services the average worker doesn’t use”
If I’m a portrait painter from home there is no laws/services that protect me more than my next door neighbor, even if I make twice as much and am taxes 3X as much…
Try again. Like I said, false. Especially evident when except for #90, the responses are insults not legit answers…
Very telling….
#93–LL==heh, heh. Its MINE!! ALL MINE!!!
Little cretins.
# 96 Paddy Cake the Ignorant Shit Talketr
It isn’t about what the government provides you dumbass. It is what society provides because you are rich.
#92, Bobbo, you are a fucking idiot.
Benefits I receive from society? I presume you are referring to the society that more than anything is defined by its respecting the sanctity of rights to life, liberty and property? The society that has created the greatest standards of living the world has ever seen because it left people alone to pursue their own goals based upon their abilities. The society whose economic freedom and competitive markets drove technological innovation to higher and higher peaks in pursuit of greater productivity and efficiency – which is the real reason why nobody now is toiling away in factories 18 hours a day, despite what the typical union line is.
Is that the society you are referring to? It must not be, since property rights mean nothing as long as you can find a more compelling use (in your mind) for it than he who actually earned it. Yes, I must be nothing more than a cretin, because I refuse to accept that your perversely claimed “right” to healthcare or any other service you cannot provide for yourself places some legitimate claim of obligation on my part to provide it.
#100 J “It is what society provides because you are rich.”
So, if I’m a painter and Joe is a painter and I decide to paint more (work harder) than Joe. I sell more to a buyer. My WORK has provided more. Society hasn’t provided me more, I have produced and EXCHANGED more.
You are OWNED.
Silly childish cretinish rich people need to understand that when the gulf between the classes gets wide enough the lower class will revolt. Thats because “basically” we homo sapiens are all the same. We will not starve to death while someone behine a big stone wall feeds grouse to his hounds.
Economic theory–how to produce the most wealth for the most people. Most theories do not advocate skewing 22% of the wealth into the top 1% of people. Such disparity simply doesn’t work.
Take my examples from above. Given the mandated choice==I personally would rather make $40K per year trading stock than make $250K per year digging coal==yet our society is arranged just the opposite.
By and large the RICH get police services, secure banking services, ordered enforcement of contracts thru the courts, protection from foreign enemies, stable world economies===all things the poor and middle class get less of or don’t need at all.
The profit motive and the wealth it unleashes should not be confused with small minded cretinism that thinks they owe nothing back.
Wealth gained “thru the system” as in for profit CEO’s is highly suspect and should be controled as in CEO’s should not earn more than 40X times the average companies emplyee. You say thats not fair???? Stupid and unequal how those rich cabal members make it in society.
Much different is Paddy’s example of an artist. One artist paints cats all day long and is poor. The other paints dogs and is poor. A third paints Campbell Soup Cans and is very rich. Now thats a free market. All the other free markets are actually “regulated” and regulated poorly in favor of the uber rich.
#98, I’ve never said the wealthy don’t gain any benefit. The government exists to protect our rights from violation by others, and in that we all benefit, or at least we should. But where concerning taxing of income is concerned, as unideal as it is to me, I’d be more than happy to have a single flat percentage tax on all income, with no exemptions. 10% of a 300k income is significantly more than 10% of a 25k one, and should be more than fine to meet this “the rich pay more because they receive more benefit” mantra.
# 102 Paddy Cake the Ignorant Shit Talker
You still don’t get it do you. Well, all I can say to you is enjoy being poor or middle class.
As to your pointless and goofy post. I am willing to bet that I work less and make about 100X than a factory worker makes. How exactly does that fit into your work harder make more theory. I know people that don’t EVER work and yet make more money than you will ever even dream of making. Does that fit your theory of how it all works?
#105 J “You still don’t get it do you.”
Can’t explain his own assertions.
OWNED!
Go to bed now.
#104—SL==SHOCKING SIMPLY SHOCKING!!!!
TELL ME ITS NOT TRUE—– you’d rather have a discretionary income of $270K per year than %22,500?
AMAZING!!!!!
wHAT A GUY!!!!
Yes, its a free society that offers to let poor and rich equally sleep under bridge trestles and eat moldy bread.
What a self centered cretin.
#108–Pedro==becoming very sophisticated in your word choice. You finishing up your college work or what?
Actually, in context, I believe paying taxes so as to support a social safety net IS what the rich can/should do for their country without bellyaching. In fact, I believe most of them do.
Its only the fantasy rich posers like Joe the Plumber who really complain about paying taxes and vote against that from which they would personally benefit.
Red state voters–total retards.
# 106 Paddy Cake the Ignorant Shit Talker
I charge $500 per hour for tutoring about money issues.
LOL
I will give you one and you can figure the rest out on your own.
For instance. Due to my family wealth, I was guaranteed a a college education from a prestigious university. Pretty much anyone I wanted. All I had to do was not fuck up. As long as my GPA was positive, I was in. I didn’t have to try real hard. I just couldn’t fuck up. Exceptions are made for those with money and a low GPA. LIKE G.W. BUSH
Juxtaposition to a poor white kid. To get into any one of those universities they would have to score high on their entrance tests and also maintain a high GPA. That means all things being equal I had a tremendous advantage. Not to mention if the poor white kid didn’t get a scholarship or government grant they couldn’t pay for it. I didn’t have to worry about any of those. Although, I was offered them.
That is ONE of the benifits of wealth that society offers.
#99, You might want to look at this.
http://tinyurl.com/9e24r