Give the Public $600 Billion |
The administration talks a big game about economic stimulus packages and claims that the public is the winner when taxes are low or they are simply given a handout to spend. So take $600-plus billion and give each man, woman and child $2000 each. That will distribute all this money. A family of 5 would have a nice $10,000 nest egg for a down-payment or to rent a house and pay off their credit cards thus sending the money back into the system.
The trickle-down bail-out is designed to go to the same people who gave themselves huge salaries and ran these firms into the ground? It gets them off the hook. They can then slither out of town when they all should be tarred-and-feathered.
Why not let the public buy up the mortgages at these low-ball prices and move in? Why can’t that be arranged? Use the FHA to do it if the banks cannot. Why do the crooks get to re-buy the bad mortgages at the low price? So they can gouge later?
There has never been economic stimulus from the top down when the money is given to these weasels. These are people who will sell dollars and buy Euros, or horde the money or move to Switzerland to spend the money there. All of the CEO’s of these failed companies have offshore villas. The average Joe spends his money in the USA, not Europe. It stays in circulation. Good things happen.
According to the pro-bail-out “experts” the economy should have melted down on Tuesday hurling us into a depression. Instead the market went up. So how does that work?
Start looking at this bail-out and you start to see that it is an exit strategy for Paulsen and his friends at Goldman, Sachs. There was a need to rush it through before anyone discovered what it was all about.
No oversight, a finance Czar, more free reign than ever.
Exactly why is there such a rush? It’s like the sleazeball salesman telling feeble-minded customers that they MUST buy now. It just makes no sense.
Related link:
Paulsen’s ethics problem
No money for a bailout should be considered until a long line of shysters get a hefty jail sentence.
Democrats Barney Frank and Chris Dodd should be the first two fitted for orange jumpsuits.
For those that dont know PART of the problem..
It comes around like this.
A contract with a INTERESTING PART(s)
The corps wanted more money, so they make this fun little part.
BUY the HOUSE at 10 years at 4-8% interest. the Payment is about the same as RENT…
IN 10 years, we are going to UP THE interest rate to 12-20%..
NOW, alot of people wanted THEIR OWN HOME..Even those working for LOW wages.
THIS got them a home…LOTS OF HOMES, as other corps JUMPED in.
IF’ you didnt PAY your house off in 10 years, your payment went up 2-5 TIMES. When the average OWNER was getting $1200-1400 per month…And Payments were $500-800 per month MAKING extra payments wasnt going to happen on a HOME VALUED at $150k-200k+…And that WASNT a big house.
ALL of this when there is a TAX on WOOD products from Canada of 25%, and MOST USA wood is being sent to CHINA..ANd wood products IN the USA are raising prices to MATCH the IMPORTED wood.
Then, not to be left out, OTHER companies start raising their prices. So the USA inflated prices on MOST goods by AT LEAST 25%. THEN FUEL went up, which FORCED prices even HIGHER for Shipping and handling, and ALL THIS is being given to the CONSUMER. If you watched the last 8 years of Xmas shopping, the numbers given in February, TEND to be abit SHORT of the CORPS estimates. PEOPLE are not shopping alot, they WANT/FOOD, bills paid, and FUEL..
In the last 8 years…Food, utilities, have gone up 30-50%, and FUEL has gone up at LEAST 40%..and wages?? FINALLY, went up 2 years ago..
THEN comes an interesting point about wages. over 60% of the USA LIVES on basic income.
Groceries,
McD
MAny stores PAY close to min wage, and few benefits..
IF the STORES and shops must PAY more for employees…the CUSTOMER must pay more for the goods.
For all the costs to YOU, at home, the COST has also risen at the STORE for the same reasons. Utilities, bills, Shipping, FUEL, ALL impact the cost of goods…
Min wage was about $5 per hour, and the raise 2 years ago was $0.50, then they added LAST year another $0.50, and THIS year they will add another $0.50…which figures out to be 30% over 3 years. CORPS dont pay for ANYTHING, remember that..ITS ALL passed onto the consumer.
For all the changes in the last 8 years…Costs went up, so WE have to pay for it.
THOSe workers getting AROUND $6.50-8 per hour?? STILL have to pay BILLS, RENT, FUEL, and soforth.
And the corps learned a trick in the last 10-15 years on HOW to cut costs. 32hours or LESS and they dont have to pay MOST of the taxes, benefits, medical, dental, and in SOME states they dont need to pay UnEmployment for when you QUIT or get fired or laid off.
so, good luck to you all. i hope you can pay your bills in the coming years.
#7, I’m not fan of Bush, but I’m also not fan of the Caps Lock key. No offense, but it makes you look like a raving lunatic.
This mess did not “just happen” nd it’s not the fallout from Bush’s policies. This has been building for at least 30 years and everyone is to blame to one degree or another.
On this issue McCain and Obama are two sides of the same coin. Face it, we’re all screwed.
#33 Estaban, I think STEALING THE PRESIDENCY AND LOOTING THE TREASURY OF THE UNITED STATES is something that should be SHOUTED, YELLED, AND SCREAMED ABOUT !!! This is America, the only one we have, and those REPUKES, NEO-CONS, AND RELIGIOUS NUT-JOBS ARE ***DESTROYING IT*** , ALL THE WHILE WEARING EFFING FLAG PINS AND SINGING “GOD BLESS AMERICA” !!! It makes MY BLOOD BOIL, AND IT SHOULD DO THE SAME FOR YOU !!!
Giving it to the people would be better than the current plan. However, both will just result in more inflation as this is just printed crap not tied to increased productivity in the country.
It’s best to just left the market correct. It will seek its true level.
Totally agree with John. All these fratboy CEO thugs know to do with money is to gather it up in a big pile and write x million dollar bonus checks to each other.
At this point the best thing that can happen is congress should go home. Come back in four months and see what has happen. There is nothing they can do that will be right for all the people. So instead let the people who made bad choices pay for those choices.
#35 – Try finding the pressure release valve. People who think Bush was elected fairly or that W is doing a heck of a job or that COEs are salt of the Earth citizens are simply delusional or willfully ignorant… no amount of yelling at them will help.
Chill… Practice some Zen…
We are all going to need some Zen skills when we are all huddled around barrels burning whatever we can find to stay warm.
“You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time.” — Abraham Lincoln
The economic situation, as it is now, is stunning proof that the “trickle down” economics of the Reagan era are a pathetic failure.
There’s only one thing that trickles down, and it’s not money!
“You can fool some of the people all the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on.” — George W. Bush
How about just letting the people that earned the money in the first place keep it?
#44–Improbus==excellent. All this time, and I have never heard that before. Well done.
Anybody know or have a good cite for the notion that a dollar from the government to a rich guy will circulate on average to 3 people whereas a dollar given to a poor person will circulate to 10? This goes to the fact of what poor people and rich people tend to spend their money on as it relates to GNP. The trickle down theory never was a theory==its just a scam. Same with this frozen credit scam. When credit is frozen, people have to save before they consume. Don’t we need to save more than we do? Seems rather self defeating like declaring war, cutting taxes, and telling people to go shopping.
#27–zebulon==you have it mostly correct but a significant fact is that the government is proposing to buy securities that are 1-2-3 steps removed from the actual mortgages. This is what makes the current situation more difficult than the Savings and Loan crises from 10 years ago. Can’t really buy single mortgages, form a trust, and resell them because the mortgages have been bundled and turned into securities and then debt-swap instruments and default insurance. Over my head but its people making money by being parasites.
One commenter said that in 2007 or 2006 the hedge funds had 63 Billion in bonus payments made. This really was a freight train highballing on the fraud track and “everyone” knew this was going to happen. People go for the short term absent regulations to prohibit fraud.
Silly hoomans.
#45, obviously you are a right wing neo-con for having such capitalistic thoughts. Don’t worry Obama, the chosen one, will soon make sure you pay your “fair share”, you (please pick one of the following to end the sentence: racist, bigot, homophobe, capitalist, neo-con).
Let’s narrow this down a bit.
We give UP TO $700 billion to the banks so they can get out of the mess they’re in.
We could give UP TO $700 billion to help those with mortgages that are in trouble because of falling housing prices.
We could UP TO give $2,300 to every person in the US.
We could buy all the bad mortgages from the lenders and let them keep the profitable ones.
We could buy the homes from those who can’t sell for the cost of their mortgage.
We could bail out the largest, important players such as AIG, Fannie May and Freddie Mac to retain liquidity.
We could let the FDIC prop up those banks going under. We could even finance the FDIC to help with this.
Or, we could just allow the market to correct itself.
*
The cause of this whole “problem” is two fold. First, there have been massive layoffs as well paying jobs moved overseas. No job = no money to pay the mortgage or credit card bills. Yes, maybe the home is/was a two income family, and yes, maybe another job has been found. That seldom brings in the same amount of money as the original job now in China.
Second, many people bought their homes in overpriced markets. When the bubble burst, the actual losses were amplified. Nervous lenders asked for more money as they watched the equity in those homes diminish. That forced many to try to sell in a saturated buyers market.
Yes, there are deadbeats that didn’t pay. Yes, there are people that knowingly lied to obtain a mortgage. And yes, there are agents that pushed mortgages on unsophisticated, unqualified people. These though are a fraction of the defaulting mortgages.
So far in 2008, over 600,000 Americans lost their job. How many lost their job in 2007? The “official” number of unemployed is approaching 10 million. Those who gave up looking are probably close to that. Those underemployed are at least the same. Overtime and average work week are declining.
In my opinion, it doesn’t matter where you throw the money. You could give it to those at the top or those at the bottom, but neither will fix what is causing the problem. The problem is JOBS, JOBS, and more JOBS. Decent paying JOBS. Not service industry, which includes IT, prognosticating, computer repair and serving hamburgs. Manufacturing JOBS; automotive, electronics, clothing, and every other durable good you can think of.
When America gets back to work, America will not have a problem.
#48 I agree 100%.
We need to get the hell out of the WTO and allowing countries with slave wage labor decimate our manufacturing sectors.
Start collecting tariffs on those types of imports.
Let’s keep it real here. The Economic Stimulus $600 doesn’t seem to have worked. So let’s give it back.
So if the benefit is $1,400 instead of $2,000 the cost to the taxpayers (oh, us) would be $420 billion instead of $600 billion.
I don’t know what would happen if the $2,000 ($1,400 plus the $600) would work (note the $600 didn’t solve anything, at least permanently) didn’t work but it would keep the banks churning for another couple of months, which I think would be the objective here.
I’d like for a Senate subcommittee to ascertain fault and see raincoat headed perp-walks soon.
A free market is a free market. A bailout of a market is not a free market.
Dvorak for President!
Being a single person, $2000 would do very little for me financially.
#50 – yeah right. You think the Senate is going to perp-walk some of it’s own senior members?
Supposedly the FBI is investigating, but that’s going tend up a whitewash.
We’re all screwed.
I just hope that people start to wake up and smell the corporate welfare. First it was the airlines with their hand out. Now it is the banks. Next it will be the insurance companies (although after 9/11 they got a couple sweetheart laws passed basically saying that in big tragedies they won’t have to pay so they might not need a bail out). The government is run for and by corporations and we the people need to start paying attention.
I hope many of you understand that Giving money to the poor, is a great stimulus, except for 1 problem.
AS soon as you do. Prices will either LOCK IN, or even go UP on basic goods and services.
Why not pay for a Evaluation of our corporate structure, and compare that with the COST of living. And LOCK IN a cost/payment structure that WORKS. Its been interesting that in the last 20-30 years LAWS/regulations on TAX have changed to the point, that READING it gives you a headache, and anyone that DID/HAS can write their OWN check at any corp. We have given to MUCH favoritism to CORPS, and the MONEY isnt being SPREAD AROUND. CORPS have learned the system and are playing it like a 200 piece Orchestra, with a LIGHT SHOW.
This whole GAME has had the Congress looking at Contracts and business in the Banking world. LIKE credit cards that CHANGE after you get them. We have all seen that Little piece of paper in the CC bill that shows CHANGES to the contract…THAT ISNT FAIR. NO ONE has the right to change a contract after its SIGNED, unless BOTH sides redo the contract. Esp. when its a 4 point Print on a small paper thats Equal to a 20 page document. Only thing smaller is the print on your MEDICINES and warnings.
So this all comes down, MOSTLY, on illegal contracts and STUPID business plans.
How many SMALL business’s SCREW UP, and go out of business WITHOUT the Gov. TRYING to help them? LOTS.
LEt them fail, and MAKE THEM LEARN.
ECA,
If you read half as much as you wrote, you would be twice as smart and fill this blog with a three quarters less crap.
The bailout is the biggest pile of crap that the weak-kneed, idiotic, liberals, no-mind, morons of the U.S. Senate have ever passed.
I am sick and tired of these idiots stealing from me.
Get rid of your Senators and Congressmen that support fleecing billions from hard-working taxpayers. They are worse than the mafia with their skimming off the top of my paycheck before I even get it!
Wouldn’t giving $700 billion to taxpayers cause a few things to occur such as:
– increase in the money supply
– increase in the rate of inflation
– decrease the demand for U.S. currency
– the cost of imported goods would then increase
– the exchange rate for the U.S. Dollar would drop or experience “downward pressure”
– the cost of commodities priced in U.S. Dollars, such as oil, would increase
Granted, the taxpayers would hopefully spend the money that they received but that is not a sure thing.
By the way, $10,000 won’t buy you sh*t in real estate these days.
#58 – Joe Seefus – the cost of imported goods would then increase
This plus the fact that people would buy more junk, which would lead to an increased trade deficit.
This idea sounds just crazy enough to possibly work, so
naturally it won’t be given serious consideration.
How great is our bureaucracy!!
I’m against the $85,000,000,000.00 bailout of AIG.
Instead, I’m in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to
America in a We Deserve It Dividend.
To make the math simple, let’s assume there are
200,000,000 bonafide U.S. Citizens 18+.
Our population is about 301,000,000 +/- counting every
man, woman and child. So 200,000,000 might be a fair stab
at adults 18 and up..
So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billion that
equals $425,000.00.
My plan is to give $425,000 to every person 18+ as a We
Deserve It Dividend.
Of course, it would NOT be tax free.
So let’s assume a tax rate of 30%.
Every individual 18+ has to pay $127,500.00 in taxes.
That sends $25,500,000,000 right back to Uncle Sam.
But it means that every adult 18+ has $297,500.00 in their
pocket.
A husband and wife has $595,000.00.
What would you do with $297,500.00 to $595,000.00 in your
family?
Pay off your mortgage – housing crisis solved.
Repay college loans – what a great boost to new grads
Put away money for college – it’ll be there
Save in a bank – create money to loan to entrepreneurs.
Buy a new car – create jobs
Invest in the market – capital drives growth
Pay for your parent’s medical insurance – health care
improves
Enable Deadbeat Dads to come clean – or else
Remember this is for every adult U S Citizen 18+
including the folks who lost their jobs at Lehman Brothers
and every other company that is cutting back. And of
course, for those serving in our Armed Forces.
If we’re going to re-distribute wealth let’s
really do it…instead of trickling out a puny $1000.00
( ‘vote buy’ ) economic incentive that is being
proposed by one of our candidates for President.
If we’re going to do an $85 billion bailout,
let’s bail out every adult U S Citizen 18+!
As for AIG – liquidate it.
Sell off its parts.
Let American General go back to being American General.
Sell off the real estate.
Let the private sector bargain hunters cut it up and
clean it up.
Here’s my rationale. We deserve it and AIG
doesn’t.
Sure it’s a crazy idea that can ‘never work.’
But can you imagine the Coast-To-Coast Block Party!
How do you spell Economic Boom?
I trust my fellow adult Americans to know how to use the
$85 Billion We Deserve It Dividend more than I do the
geniuses at AIG or in Washington DC
And remember, The plan only really costs $59.5
Billion because $25.5 Billion is returned instantly in
taxes to Uncle Sam.
I agree! & of course a lot more thoughts and planning would go into this but fuck this country just keeps on leaving the poor poorer and making the rich richer. We live in AMERICA for god’s sake! The Canadians, British and French have a better health system than we do! It’s starting to get really bad and yes maybe some people went in over their heads but the government should do their job that they are paid to do and fix things the right way not give out ridiculous stimulus checks for $600.