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According to Menachem Friedman, a sociology professor at Bar-Ilan University, the orthodox are imposing their rules more forcefully than before and the lives of the city’s women are becoming more circumscribed, and sometimes more dangerous, as a result. Friedman grew up in an ultra-orthodox family and has been studying the Haredi for 49 years. He said the extreme atmosphere is tangible.
Self-appointed moral guardians, dubbed the ‘modesty police’ by Israel’s modern secular media, roam Jerusalem’s ultra-religious neighbourhoods enforcing the voluminous and ever growing list of rabbinical laws such as the recent decree banning the sale of MP4 players. About 100 Haredi women have taken to wearing scarves and veils to cover themselves much like Muslim women.
Yoel Kreus is known locally in the Mea Shearim area of the city as the ‘manager of operations’. He describes himself as a ’shmira’, a Hebrew word that translates as ‘watcher of Israel’. ‘I make sure the rabbis’ decisions happen … I help you to be a moral person,’ he said.
Much of Kreus’s time is spent checking out reports of illicit use of new technologies by members of the Haredi community. ‘If we discover someone has a computer at home we throw the children out of school,’ he said. Enforcing dictates on women’s behaviour is another vital part of his brief…Signs warning women not to enter if they are wearing trousers, short sleeves or a skirt above the knees, hang in the neighbourhood. One is affixed outside Kreus’s two-room house where he lives with his wife and 11 children. ‘Every week there’s a complaint about the way women dress,’ said Kreus…
He maintained that separation was necessary beyond the boundaries of the neighbourhood. ‘Having secular people on the buses is a problem. They go like animals, without clothes. Non-religious girls don’t dress properly. They encourage me to sin,’ he said.
True Believers the world over celebrate their intolerance with violence.
The woman in that photo is “kvetch” personified.
“Non-religious girls don’t dress properly. They encourage me to sin”
yeah, that happens to me too… a lot!
“Religion is the last refuge of human savagery”, Alfred North Whitehead.
Wow, just like the Saudi Committee for the Prevention of Vice and Propagation of Virtue. Pretty soon both of these groups can start stoning adulterers in the same stadium.
At last, Jews and Muslims abusing together.
#3 – Ed
>>Alfred North Whitehead
From Wiki-whatever…
“Whitehead was always interested in theology, especially in the 1890s. This may be explained by the fact that his family was firmly anchored in the Church of England: his father and uncles were vicars, while his brother would become bishop of Madras. Perhaps influenced by his wife and the writings of Cardinal Newman, Whitehead leaned towards Roman Catholicism. Prior to the Great War, he considered himself an agnostic. Later he returned to religion, without formally joining any church. Unitarians claim him as a friend.“.
Yea, we are no different. Didn’t we feel patriotic and morally justified with unexamined lies and deceit to invade IRAQ? We only heard what we wanted too.
Instead of sitting on our own high horse and pointing out everyone else’s foibles we should exam our own ramped up self-righteousness, religious or not.
Is there any religion that doesn’t have these self-appointed holier than thou folks?
#7 – I’m not aware of any Buddhist “holier than thou folks.” Although Buddhism could arguably called a philosophy.
“holier than thou folks.” is not the exclusive domain of religion. History has a plethora of examples of non-religious groups with “holier than thou folks.”, Communism for one. In fact, I am not aware of any group exterminating more people then the communist.
As an Israeli I can testify that these Haredi groups are nuts.
They live in a world within a world within of their own.
They don’t even talk to us AND WE ARE JEWS! 😀
The difference between the situation in Israel and Saudi Arabia is that in Saudi Arabia people like that RULE the state. In Israel they are a minority in a democratic country.
By the way, one of the reasons that they are going to so extremes is that they are basically losing much of their sons and daughters to the secular part of society. A lot of young Haredi people are choosing to live secular lives and it pisses the Haredim like hell. What’s going on with these people is a tragedy. The nice part is that in recent years there has been closing gaps between religious groups and the secular majority in Israel. We have learned to accept each other most of the time (most, not always).
Don’t throw the baby out with the water. Just because there are Jewish nuts has nothing to do with Judaism. There aren’t any nutty atheists?
And regarding comparing it to Islam. There people are actually getting executed left and right. Hanged, stoned, shot in the street. These Haredim just yell at you or use excommunication which though not very fun is totally different.
By the way, the biggest enemies of the haredim are the Israeli gay community. The gays insist on marching in jerusalem which is the haredims turf. It drives them mad! Every time the gays do that the haredim go out en mass to protest and clash with the police. Then the police take out all their frustration on the Haredim and beat the crap out of them! 😀
It’s hilarious.
But all in all there is a status qou in Israel. They usually don’t interfere with our way of life and we don’t mess too much with theirs.
On a personal note, I have nothing against them. All my encounters with Haredims were ok. They are just a little weird and extremely religious – as a secular man you need to take that into consideration.
#12 – adinas
>>These Haredim just yell at you or use
>>excommunication which though not very fun is
>>totally different.
I’m not so sure about that.
“The men, all members of the theologically conservative Haredi branch of Judaism, tackled her to the ground, slammed her head against the floor and tied a rag around her mouth. One assailant sat on her head as the others kicked her while demanding to know the names of the men she was seeing.
They also threatened to kill her if she did not leave the neighbourhood.”
That sounds like assault and battery, making terroristic threats, perhaps attempted murder, and a host of other felonious crimes.
It’s a small step from tackling a woman to the ground, slamming her head against the floor, gagging her, and threatening to kill her to stoning and execution.
If you have ever been to Jerusalem, you know that it is a very divided city, with different customs, religions, economies, food traditions, etc. Some of the neighborhoods are VERY traditional and going into them behaving in a way that doesn’t meet with their customs or approval is asking for trouble.
But then, there are whole countries that are this way, including Western countries. For example, in France Muslim girls can not wear their veils to school, although it is required by their religion. In this case, Muslims are being told to behave a certain way (or be punished) by a society that does not approve of their customs. There is little difference from the example being cited by this article, except that one is national policy.
#17–awake. Really? Gee, if the national law is one way and a local neighborhood “custom” is counter to that law, then isn’t the local custom illegal? That seems like a difference to me.
These are also the same types of get exemptions from serving in the Israeli military.
More fundamentalism from the Judeo-Christian-Islamic wing.
#16 – contempt
To a certain degree, I would be hard pressed to disagree with you.
However, I don’t equate funding Head Start programs, re-training workers whose jobs have been sent to India or China, and trying to improve the quality of life for the Average American with Dumbya’s/ Bernanke’s/ Paulson’s need to bail out paper-shuffling mega-corporations, obscenely wealthy paper shuffling executives who have driven their corporations into the ground, etc.
I really don’t give a fuck if the CEO of Bear Stearns, Freddie, Fannie, Lehman Bros., etc. have to go on welfare and eat government cheese.
My friends, family, and co-workers…I’m a little more concerned about them.
That’s why I’m voting for Obama, and not McBush. With all of McBush’s flip-flops, it’s hard to know WHAT he stands for, but it sounds like 4 more years of the same. Unless he dies and Palin gets into the Oval Office…. then we’re REALLY fucked.
#20 Mister Mustard
I suspect the bailout has more to do with the selfish needs of certain members of the House and Senate than the president. Along with 40 or so others, Pelosi and Kerry are highly invested in these companies so what better out for them than to allow the taxpayers to take the hit.
It seems your hate for Bush is blinding you to the real scoundrels.
#21 – contempt
>>It seems your hate for Bush is blinding you
>>to the real scoundrels.
Naw. I don’t hate Bush. I feel sorry for America for having suffered through 8 years of his mismanagement; I feel sorry for the families of American kids who had to die for his trophy war; I feel sorry for all the Americans who are far worse off than they were at the beginning of his reign of terror; I feel sorry for all the victims of his administration’s greed, ignorance, deceit, hubris, and on and on and on.
I suppose he did the best he could, and a stupid, self-centered little man who was operating in a job that was waaaay above his pay grade.
120 days remaining, and the nightmare will be over.
#22 bobbo
I’ve found that capitalism works just fine until the government interferes with its natural order.
Regulation might seem necessary, but not necessary if those that abuse the system are sent to jail instead of being allowed to profit from their illegal activities.
#23 Mister Mustard
What could be worse is that in 120 days the real nightmare begins.
#24 – Contempt
>>I’ve found that capitalism works just fine
>>until the government interferes with its
>>natural order.
The “natural order” being monopolies, sweat shops, usury, unbridled environmental destruction, unfair concentration of wealth among the oligarch elite, and economic instability, and so on?
That sounds like the Bush/ McCain platform! No wonder you’re voting for 4 more years!!
West always get away in the name of Democrazy (Democracy). Oh yeah Israel is a Democracy so it can do whatever it wants. And no you cannot ask favors from us as you are a non-democratic nation. We can bomb you to pulp and dont you dare raise you finger in protest.
Israel always gets away with butchering civilians in the name of democracy. Democracy is the new license to kill anyone.
#24–contempt==you make about as much sense as zorkor. I hope I don’t get banned for making such an analogy but you are as loopy and ideologically driven as him, just with a lot more loony friends here in bankrupt USA as he has in bankrupt fukistan.
How can you be sent to jail if there are no regulations? I guess the natural order of capitalism is for the clouds to part and god points a finger at the abusing capitalists==or do they appear to you and zorkor in dreams?
Just another bunch of brutish aholes who think they can speak for God. If you can think of someone who is a bigger egomanic than that have at it.
Evil and violent men with blood on their hands do not speak for God. They speak for Satan if either exists.
#24 bobbo = How can you be sent to jail if there are no regulations?
Perhaps we don’t disagree, but are merely crossing swords over the difference between regulation and law.
Laws are designed to protect the people from government and from each other whereas regulations are specifically designed as a way for government to increase it’s power and influence over the people.
It’s not the system of capitalism that’s the problem only the people that are allowed to corrupt it.
#30–contempt==everything is definitional, so until we spend a few days with the dictionary, you have me trumped.
In general though, making assumptions consistent with what I think is your erroneous point, both laws and regulations control people. Very few laws and regulations give/recognize the rights of people. Rights come from the Constitution/Bill of Rights.
My view is that laws set the picture frame and regulations fill inbetween the borders. Crude, but descriptive.
All forms of government and economics work in a vacuum, in theory. None work without regulations, regulations that are enforced.
Quibble all you want but anyone arguing for less regulation or “freedom of the marketplace” or whatever are in practical effect arguing for one kind of excess. Can an activity be “over regulated?” No.
There can be “bad” regulations that need to be modified. There can be no over regulation. As you say==definitions.
#30-contempt = “It’s not the system of capitalism that’s the problem only the people that are allowed to corrupt it.”
that just cracked me up man! So if only these annoying “human beings” would stop getting in the way of the system, capitalism would work just fine, right? Maybe we can get angels or maybe space aliens to be CEO’s of all our corporations.
You can’t say a system is OK if it doesn’t bring into account the fact that many people are selfish bastards who would bend ANY system for their own advantage! This is EXACTLY why regulation exists in the first place.
If all people were good and behaved as you wanted them to, communism would work just as well, as would anarchism.
The hypocrisy of Israel knows absolutely no bounds. For a country that devotes 90% of it’s energy towards demonizing and destroying Islam, they are by no stretch of the imagination any better. It is perhaps one of the most despicable and vile countries on the planet.
#32 Michael GR
Of course people are going to do as you say but you overlook the key point which is “be allowed” to corrupt it. Laws are in place but as we see they do no good if not enforced.