A former Army commander who underwent a sex change operation was discriminated against by the U.S. government, a federal judge has ruled in an important victory for transgenders claiming bias in the workplace.
Diane Schroer won her federal lawsuit against the Library of Congress after officials backed out of a 2005 job offer when told of her intention to become a transsexual. At the time of the job interview for a position as a senior terrorism research analyst, David Schroer was a male. He had been a onetime Army Special Forces commander.
“The evidence established that the Library was enthusiastic about hiring David Schroer — until she disclosed her transsexuality,” Robinson wrote. “The Library revoked the offer when it learned that a man named David intended to become, legally, culturally and physically, a woman named Diane. This was discrimination ‘because of … sex.’ “
“I knew all along that the 25 years of experience I gained defending our country didn’t disappear when I transitioned, so it was hard to understand why I was being turned down for a job doing what I do best just because I’m transgender. It is tremendously gratifying to have your faith in this country, and what is fundamentally right and fair, be reaffirmed,” said Diane Schroer.
We might just consider returning control of the Library of Congress to librarians instead of politicians.
Cripes! Are we still in 1950?
#1 agree but there is an explanation.
The majority of large corporations and certainly most all in the high tech field have broad non-discrimination policies (including transgenders. However, the US government is usually a decade or more behind.
Two reasons. (1) the US government has no competition so obtaining attracting best talent and diversity is of no concern and (2) it is infiltrated with the conservative mafia.
Neither of these reasons are true in a competitive and truly open society. When our government rids itself of the christian taliban infiltration and then live up to the separation of church and state can we see some positive change.
I have provided a link for our conservative pals in here as an explanation of this. This is my gift to you (and from my hero Thomas Jefferson).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_church_and_state
Dallas
You actually make a great argument. I’m not sure I buy in to the Christians are the ruination of society but your argument is still well thought out….until you start referencing Wikipedia! You might as well reference Bazooka Comics. Nobody should try and backup a serious thought, especially on a topic that is not a straight forward, “here’s how it works” topic, with articles from this pretend “knowledge source”.
#3 Good point. The only itty bitty flaw in your argument is that the Wikipedia link directly references the Constitution, so it’s not so bad after all.
She should have disclosed it BEFORE getting offered the job. Not a good way to start a career lying.
#5–Matt==explain yourself. No one should have to explain their current intent of doing future legal acts. Whats wrong with YOU? There was no lying by any stretch of the imagination.
You apply for a job. You are white and intend to marry a black. The government finds out and fires you.
Would that be a “righteous” thing to do because you lied?
What a dolt!
Military career is hard for women, eh? Good thing he’s a dude with a mutilated penis.
Question:
Since she retired as an Army officer, she is still subject to all the pertinent regulations, etc. Since retired officers are subject to recall due to their drawing retirement pay, perhaps she may be comitting fraud? Reason: Special Forces branch and the Armor branch (Dianne/Dave’s previous Army job) are both restricted to males only. That means that she is not entitled to draw her retirement check since she can not legally perform in either of her Army fields. Let’s hear from some lawyer types out there. I have a feeling this is going to occur more often as the acceptance for GBLT persons increases over the course of time.
That’s not a woman. It’s a guy who had it cut off, grew his hair long and took some hormones.
Maybe the execs just didn’t want to hire s/o who is mentally unbalanced. Although, being a gov agency that’s not an option.
He/She/It does offer the typical response of blaming everyone else instead of just admitting to be a freak.
It’s a safe bet that “It” was turned down for the job because of poor decision making skills.
The money wasted should be used for counceling to accept the fact that he is a gay man.
What an asinine statement. One of these days, you might actually figure out that there’s a huge difference between gender and sexual identity.
Until then, you might try holding your mouth shut and let others think you a fool – rather than opening it and removing all doubt.
#12 “One of these days, you might actually figure out that there’s a huge difference between gender and sexual identity.”
Yes, if you are mentally unbalanced that could be the case.
There can also be a huge difference between racial and species identity. Those people are generally in rubber rooms…
Yes, if you are mentally unbalanced that could be the case.
Go learn a little about psychology, and in particular the psychology of gender and sexuality. Your words belie your ignorance of the subject.
#14 “Go learn a little about psychology”
Unfortunately I have. It is not a science. Definitions change with the blowing wind in PC land.
Please go work with psychs when it comes to predicting human behavior where it counts. A 5 year old is more accurate.
Psychology! LOL!
Unfortunately I have. It is not a science. Definitions change with the blowing wind in PC land.
Uh huh. So, because it doesn’t meet your criteria for being a science, it doesn’t count as useful and rational?
I imagine there’s a lot of people out there doing research in the domain that might disagree with you – with good reason.
I’ll agree that it is not an exact science, but little about human behaviour is. The fact remains that there is a huge difference between gender identity and sexual identity. I leave it as an exercise to the reader to figure out what that distinction is.
#16 – MgS
>>I leave it as an exercise to the reader to
>>figure out what that distinction is.
I don’t think Mr. O’Furniture has the desire or the intellectual ability to figure it out.
It’s more his style to assign anyone who’s not happily married (hetero) with 2.2 children to the “ahh, he’s just a f&cking homo” category.
People like O’Furniture make it even easier to lampoon the right wing-nuts than bozos like James “your worship is noted” Hill.
Not a lot of substance between the ears.
#16 “So, because it doesn’t meet your criteria for being a science, ”
:knowledge or a system of knowledge covering general truths or the operation of general laws especially as obtained and tested through scientific method:
There ya go. I studied it long enough and have worked with enough to know it doesn’t fir the criteria.
It is a collection of data and theory that generally can’t produce predictable, reproducible results.
If you had studied the subject AND have training in a real science you would already know this though…
Just because a man had himself castrated and runs around trying to look like a woman doesn’t mean he can’t do good work.
Of course it does raise questions about sanity but then I have concerns on that issue about a lot of people taking part on the war on terrorism.
#18 – O’Furnture
>>There ya go. I studied it long enough and
>>have worked with enough to know it doesn’t
>>fir the criteria.
Aw, c’mon, Patio! You’re making a foll of yourself. Do you think theoretical physics is a “science”? Do you think medicine is a “science”?
Not every “science” is modeled after those junior-high chemistry experiements you used to do.
#19 “Of course it does raise questions about sanity”
Yes, as an employer I try to pre-screen for any important positions. Being that we have at will employment I usually just get rid of these types within 90 days.
What these idiots did was withdraw the offer. Stupid.
# 18 # 21 Paddy-O
Dear Dipshit,
I was going to take the time to point out all the falsehoods and erroneous statements you have made but instead I will simply leave you to your own ignorance so that you may wallow in it.
“Being that we have at will employment I usually just get rid of these types within 90 days.”
You better hope no one ever finds out what company you hire for. That is a lawsuit in EVERY state. In some states, like mine, you can not hire and fire anyone and you don’t have to say why but once you open your dumb ass mouth and say why, you better hope it doesn’t violate federal employment laws. What you just said DOES!! Dipshit.
This leads me to believe you are too stupid to own or run a company of any size.
#22 “You better hope no one ever finds out what company you hire for. That is a lawsuit in EVERY state.”
Actually not. “Being that we have at will employment I usually just get rid of these types within 90 days.”
“These types”, means, well, those who are non-productive.
You got to know how to play the game. Which obviously, you don’t. LOL
# 23 Paddy-O
“Actually not. “Being that we have at will employment I usually just get rid of these types within 90 days.”
Because you are a complete fucking idiot I will clue you in on the law. This holds true in EVERY ” At Will” state.
“B. Employment at Will and Its Limits
The rule of employment at will allows either the employer or the employee to terminate the employment relationship at any time for good reason, bad reason, or no reason. As is well known, the legal right to fire for bad reasons is not absolute; (23) both legislatures and courts have rendered some reasons for termination illegitimate.
Title VII is perhaps the most salient example. Title VII prohibits the employer from terminating an employment relationship based on the employee’s race, color, sex, religion, or national origin. (24) Other antidiscrimination laws, state and federal, also protect against discrimination on the basis of disability, (25) age, (26) or sexual orientation. (27) The antidiscrimination exceptions to employment at will embody a policy against employment decisions based on traits that have been, but should not be, a basis for group disadvantage. (28) ”
““These types”, means, well, those who are non-productive. ”
Yeah unfortunately there was no problem with that person being productive. Your use of “these types” would be up to a judge to decide. Let me clue you in. YOU WOULD LOSE!!!!
“You got to know how to play the game. Which obviously, you don’t. LOL”
I have been playing the game for more years than you have probably been alive and I would bet my companies revenue in a month is higher than yours in a year. The game I play is…. I hire the most talented and qualified person I can. I don’t give a shit if they are a man, woman, black, white, Asian, purple, small , big three eye two heads, I don’t give a fuck. You on the other hand seem to think you can discriminate based on your narrow pathetic mind. YOU CAN’T or at least you can’t be vocal about it and you have been.
#24 “Because you are a complete fucking idiot ”
I’ll pit my win ratio in front of judges against yours any day of the week.
I can tell by your broad vocabulary that you are very educated. LOL
# 25 Paddy-O
“I’ll pit my win ratio in front of judges against yours any day of the week.”
I bet you don’t say what you said here in front of the judge. As a matter of fact I bet you don’t speak at all because if a judge heard the stupidity coming out of your mouth he would and slap your ass in jail for being too dumb and a danger to yourself and society.
LOL Sure you want to go by ratio? I have only gone to court twice. I won both. They of course had nothing to do with employment practices but instead contract disputes. I don’t get sued by employees because I am not a dick and I treat them well. I bet my employees make more in a month than you do in a year. LOL
“I can tell by your broad vocabulary that you are very educated. LOL”
You would be correct. Would you like to compare education? Be assured, you would lose if I gave only 1/2 my educational resume.
# 25 Paddy-O
BTW It must suck when someone posts the law you claim to know huh? Dumbass.
Go back to the wood porch on your shack and knock back a few you dumb fucking red neck!
J
You’re funny. You have NO clue how Title VII is applied.
I certainly hope you don’t have authority over HR at a company of any size. You’d be costing them millions.
Another nice thread. Paddy leading with his chin on gender discrimination and J countering with his wealth and experience. Who has the better position in this bitch slap down?
Paddy, its your type that requires all the regulations we have. Capitalism is not an excuse for you to apply all your 19th Century superstitions and bigotry.
Tell us, on what issue did you most recently have a new insight that changed your mind on anything, or did you freeze your values in place with the last comic book read?
So Paddy, when small children don’t feel like they are the sex that they are at birth, that mean they are crazy? When they have healthy and loving parents and the other children are “normal”, those little kids are mentally deranged? This is something that has been documented and well researched. Just because YOU have never felt that way or experienced it doesn’t mean that it doesn’t happen! Sex is a given, gender is a social construct where there are different points on a continuum. Just because a person decides to transition from a man to a woman does NOT mean that they are really gay. This isn’t the dark ages Paddy!
# 28 Paddy-O
“You’re funny.”
I don’t think I am but everyone tells me that.
“You have NO clue how Title VII is applied.”
That is perhaps the dumbest thing you have said since the civil rights act of 1964 and the amendments in 1991 lay it out for even the most uneducated of us. Perhaps that isn’t low enough for you.
“I certainly hope you don’t have authority over HR at a company of any size. You’d be costing them millions.”
Well I hire for both of mine and I have NEVER had a problem. EVER. My employees love me because I pay them well and treat them as if they were the most important asset I have. BECAUSE THEY ARE!!!! I pay my interns more than you make I bet. LOL They get $25 pr hour but are limited to 10 hours a week to allow others to participate. When I exppand or need to hire temp contractors they are first on the list. Unsually
I receive over 1000 resumes a week. I could wallpaper a sports stadium with the amount of paper I get in a year. The last time I have needed to hire someone? 2002. Why? because One of my employees felt they needed to branch out on their own, which I helped finance. They are doing very well and I still work with them to this day. That is how bad I am with HR.
What is your tutnover rate? Probably not that good huh?