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More vehicles run on natural gas in Argentina than anywhere else in the world, and that success is attracting a burst of interest from the US, where a big push is under way to convert buses, taxis and cars to natural gas.
Representatives of American companies are flocking to Argentina to buy natural-gas compressors, conversion kits and fuel tanks to sell in the US, said Alessandro Carlo. Others from the US are heading south to gain technical know-how. “We have someone visiting from the US every week,” Carlo said. “We’re the pioneers.”
Many drivers in the US are clamoring to fill up with natural gas because it’s about $1.50 cheaper a gallon on average than gasoline, according to industry figures.
Others favour natural gas because it produces about 20 percent less greenhouse emissions. And some see natural gas as a way to reduce US dependency on imported oil…
Today, about 1.7 million vehicles run on natural gas in Argentina, or about 15 percent of all Argentine vehicles. By contrast, less than 1 percent of vehicles in the US run on natural gas.Other countries worldwide are converting to natural gas at a much faster rate, led by Pakistan and Brazil. South America, Bolivia, Venezuela and Peru are also making major pushes.
“It’s worked out great,” said Silvestre Prado, a Lima taxi driver. He paid $1,500 to convert his car and figures that he’ll recoup the investment in 18 months through fuel savings.
Sounds like the process of adopting broadband Web access. Pretty soon, the United States will be bottom of the Top Twenty.
But then how could Mobil/Exxon make and honest ZILLION DOLLARS PER QUARTER ??? That would take the fun out of CARTEL CAPITALISM !!!
The US is fast running out of natural gas. While Europe can import natural gas from Russia and North Africa by pipeline, there are no practical sources of natural gas that could be pipelined to the US. It would theoretically be possible for the US to import it by sea, but liquid gas carriers are fantastically expensive to build (as are the ports for unloading them) and just about the entire world fleet is currently under long term contracts to other countries. Converting cars to natural gas in the US doesn’t make a great deal of sense.
Australia gives car owners a AUD$1000 grant to convert their car to LPG dual use.
http://tinyurl.com/6ygos6
#4 Australia wants to ship its gas to the US to sell. But California turned down building a terminal for them. So the Aussies are going to build a new terminal in Mexico and pipe it into the US. Now Mexico gets to control the Aussie gas flow and they get a slice of the action.
Dumb dumb dumb…
“Many drivers in the US are clamoring to fill up with natural gas because it’s about $1.50 cheaper a gallon on average than gasoline,”
Until the US gets it. Then prices will skyrocket due to demand. We are all fu*ked no matter what.
We have loads of natural gas up here in Canada too. And a pipeline.
The catch to CNG (and diesel, and bio-diesel, and virtually any alternative fuel) is that they are cheap now because they are not taxed at the same rate as gasoline.
As soon as the same taxes get applied, the price advantage disappears.
I had a 78 Ford 250 with a 400 that ran on both cng and regular fuel. The mechanical pump was swapped out for an electrical so you would not have both types of fuel in the carb at the same time. The carburetor had a dome type container to contain the cng. You dont need a fuel pump for the cng part, it is already under pressure.
One very nasty part of converting is that cng burns much hotter, so you will get shorter engine life. Burnt valves and so on. The only plus to my setup was I had huge range. Two 100 pound (approx) cng tanks where you would expect running boards (it was a four door pickup) and two regular tanks. Cng is crap for power though.
Unless I had a motor specifically setup for cng I would never convert one. Expect to run through valves VERY often, negating price savings imho. Of course too high a fuel price makes a rebuild seen reasonable. 😛
Just a reminder the whole Mid East oil problem is almost a 40 year old PROBLEM. Asstastic when off shore drilling will end up in Chinese plastic toys.
1)
Actually, no, we have NOT built a natural gas pipe line in Alaska. We DO have an oil pipeline but such lines are not suitable for natural gas.
2)
No one knows how much (or how little) natural gas there is in Alaska. Estimates run the gamut.
3)
Natural gas has a much lower BTU (energy) content than gasoline. Thus you can’t directly compare fuel cost by the gallon as a gallon of CNG gives about 40 percent lower mileage.
4)
If CNG were to really catch on as a vehicle fuel, the states and feds would tax the hell out of it to get back their lost road use taxes. That would wipe out a good portion of the savings.
5) Would anyone REALLY want to be reliant on a fuel that has only one source (assuming Alaskian natural gas)???
#5: Except all of that natural gas in Alaska, which they’re already building a pipeline for.
No they’re not, yet: http://tinyurl.com/5s6taz
#2, I am fascinated by your statement “Considering how full of shit most liberals are..”
Can you define the term “liberal” (other than by citing examples of “liberal” opinions)?
How did there come to be “liberal” and “conservative” positions on something like the pros and cons of using natural gas as a fuel?
Here in Brazil the conversion costs around USD 700 and, in most states, gives you registration tax rebates that cover the investment in 2-3 years. Despite the loss in performance, the low cost of gas compensates the conversion mostly for those that drive mainly in urban areas or commercial vehicles like taxis.
The problem that the article forgets to explain, though, is the origin of this natural gas. Both, Brazil and Argentina, live on gas from Bolivia, that is under a crazy government (Mr. Evo Morales) that end up creating a civil war (not declared, but actual), that may affect the economy in Brazil and Argentina. Watch CNN and you’ll understand.
I don’t follow US candidates promises, that’s why I have some questions:
From where is US planning to import the natural gas to feed its fleet? Who governs this place?
Is there enough reserves?
Aren’t you guys incurring in the same mistake again?
Is there and GPEC that will control the price?
Best.
Flavio – SP – BR
http://www.ngsa.org/docs/Natural_Gas_Supply.pdf
A PDF on US natural gas supplies and usage as well as sources
#2 – If this is where you live this area should be nuked from outer space.
#3 pedro,
A reminder
mayor is alcalde and
major is mayor.
CNG is rough fuel. It doesn’t suit modern cars, needs a high pressure tank. LPG, liquified petroleum gas, is way better. I mean, it is mostly untapped, there are vast reserves in almost every country, any vehicle can run on it (it is a cryogenic liquid, so tanks are low pressure and insulated), needs almost no refining, and is easily transported. It can even be converted to gasoline.
#15, Flavio, check out T. Boone Pickens Plan for US Energy conversion and independence:
http://www.pickensplan.com/theplan/
There are 300-400 stations in Bs. As. alone that sell CNG. Performance is good but of range is less. Dashboard switch from gasoline to CNG is pretty cool. Converted cars have a trunk installed tank which typically reduces cargo room by 1/3. Safety is good as CNG is lighter than air an goes up in case of a leak unlike gasoline and propane which sink to ground level.
Brazil has a LOT more to worry about than natural gas from Bolivia…have you ever tried to go to an ATM in downtown Rio??
The big energy companies will be happy to sell you natural gas.
-things that make you go hmm
so i wonder if anyone will ever fess up
on all the vast oil and gas up in the north slope of alaska and uncap the major gull island finds… what was it…a 200yr supply found in the ’70’s.. (natural gas i think)
not to mention canada….
if you dig around, you’ll find that there is a “silent war” going on with russia/canada/usa for the crazy oil finds found like 40k feet down under the arctic pole/ice..(i think russia actually planted a flag on one of the shelf/finds with a deep sea RUV..
remember… OPEC is supposed to buy our T-Bills with a portion of the profits from the oil we buy from them… -which is in part, why we remain “defendant” on foreign oil..as per agreement made in late ’60’s early 70’s..(bad with dates, sorry)
one thought…
kinda make sense as to why oil/bbl $$ was speculated so high..OPEC nations could buy more of our debt, which helped to make it easier to fund the war with iraq (and maybe iran in the future) -the only two major oil producers who did not sign on to the OPEC/T-Bill deal….
matter of fact..if you google “oil finds” or “new oil find” or “new oil discovery” -you will see that there has been vast amounts of oil discovered in the past 7yrs or all over the place… like a new *15 billion* (pinky to mouth) barrel find in the gulf(2006, i think) ..within USA waters no less…
but nooOOoo….the friggin money/tree loving regulatory politicians in congress with bank money sticking out of their holes and the elite scam artists that IS the EPA are just two of several vehicles which lead the pack on perpetrating the whole supposed energy/foreign oil crisis on the American people..
-have you ever seen a year, any year..since say the advent of the a-bomb or um..1958 *ahem* in which we weren’t in a crisis..?
-you think this is just coincidence?
like i said several months ago in some DU post, the whole sub prime housing collapse was just a huge f’n scam so the big fish could acquire more of the little fish and some ceo’s could escape with with their mega-bonuses intact. (tho i think i recently heard the fanny/mae ceo’s just had their “umbrellas” folded..omg..someone actually had a backbone somewhere..-have to confirm that though.
i’ll bet anyone’s 1st born :p -that soon..the lid will be blown off the whole forign oil scam… America has always had vast oils reserves within its borders (esp in the coastal waters, as well as “national parks”
-do some homework on oil finds and the Feds subsequent “snatching” of them up via national parks..nice can-o-worms there for ya ta ponder..(start with alaska, since alaska is in the spotlight lately..)
if you do your homework, some light bulbs might go off in your head in relation to the hints obama has been making lately that sound like/indicate he’s going to try an sell the public on Nationalizing our Oil industry…you know, because those “big nasty oil companies” are companies are making far too much money..
lets give all the money to the poor..cause as we all know, they’re the ones who “innovated”
America into the great country that is today..
wealth belongs to those who earn it. -not to the ones who spit out babies faster than coral on a moonlit august night, just so they can collect a welfare check.
-but i digress.
there is no reason why we should be suckling anyones oil spigot, but our own.
greedy MF’ing BigBank owned and controlled politicians in our government sold us out long ago so we would have to “borrow” some of that fine non-existent 10x fiat money the major world banks create out of thin air..(-or is it 30x now?)
return our constitutional right to coin our our own money and ffs, -return our rights to drill for and use our own natural gas and oil.
while i’m on a rant…abolish the peer review process in the scientific community so “real science, scientists and engineers” can once again drive us to “real” innovation in alternative energies like those of Nikola Tesla and Stanley Meyer on the energy front and Burt Rutan in aerospace..
the government hacks that pass for scientists
these days are a disgrace to human kind..
I mean come’on, they gave Al Gore a Nobel prize for foisting the biggest money making, -pending global taxation and industry ruining scam in the history of civilization…Man Made Global Warming and its brilliant Carbon Credit taxation scam fix.. -all based on *one set of data from one man*.. -you call that science?
-or scientific process?
-anyone pay attention to the record breaking cold snaps around the globe this year?
Bio-Fuels are just another scam. -esp when you use corn..probably THE worst bio-fuel stock available to use fuel per/acre wise..
imo, the bio-fuel scam just starts another false “crisis” -a food crisis. -and who’s been buying up large quantities of grain storage silos and similar farming equipment…
google it..
Follow the *money* it has and always will,
tell all..
-energy wants to be free
(wow, guess a got a big hair up my arse today..
sorry folks)
-s
(gotta run, cant proof read this for grammar,
so ‘xcuse me in advance if its laden with mistakes.)
ok…next time, i’ll make sure i proof read such a long, randomly strung together set of (dribbling) thoughts.
what a grammatical mess. no flow at all.. 🙁
-my apologies. had a stressed out morning and took it out on here.. i’ll try not to make the same error again.
-s
Cars running on natural gas? Probably the only thing going for that shithole of a country.
The price of gasoline and oil is being kept high, regardless of its availability. Its dollar value is based on the same sort of world wide monopoly control as diamonds. Only instead of the surplus being held in vaults, its held in wells. Adding new well off US shores isn’t going to change this. As long as oil, coal, and natural gas is treated like a luxury good, there will be no price controls or supply regulations. And guess what? THEY are even starting to do this monopoly crap with drinking water. See the movie “Flo”. So as long as these things that we depend on for life, are treated as just another commercial commodity for high profit. We see modern day kings and nobles squeeze us try for every penny, to drink water, breathe clean air, and heat and light our homes. The Revolution of the 21th century, is yet to come.
I’ll pass on riding around with an explosive 500-pound bomb (CNG fuel tank) in my trunk.
http://www.firetrainingresources.net/items/CNGAutoFire-FIREFIGHTERNEARMISScompressedpics.pdf
Nor do I wish to lose 60-74% in fuel economy.
http://www.eere.energy.gov/afdc/pdfs/afv_info.pdf
Glen you might be interested in these facts:
– Only 44% of U.S. oil imports come from OPEC (EIA)
– Only 16% of U.S. oil imports come from the Middle East (EIA)
– The largest supplier of oil to the U.S. is Canada (EIA)
– The second largest supplier of oil to the U.S. is Mexico (EIA)
http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/pet_move_impcus_a2_nus_ep00_im0_mbbl_a.htm
The US is fast running out of natural gas I would like to know where # 3 PeterR got his info. We have so much in the illinios we burn it off into the air. Hum maybe we are causing GW
The Australians have been using LNG (Liquid Natural Gas) in autos for at least a decade. I visited Melbourne in 1998 and many autos had 2 tanks for fuel. One for “petrol” (aka gasoline) and another for LNG. A switch in near the driver’s seat allowed switching between them. The petrol tank is the backup for when you run out of LNG. Most service stations had LNG pumps alongside the petrol pumps.
LIBERALS LIBERALS LIBERALS, they all suck they are responsible for the financial mess, energy blah blah blah. Whats going on here at Dvorak? did Free Republic go down and freepers are desperate to post their insane rants so they came here?
Natural gas has never been in short supply in the USA, but that hasn’t stopped prices from tripling here in my state, even though I received a letter telling me that they have purchased enough ahead of time so there isn’t a winter “shortage”.
No the problem here is the energy industry panics in the face of inexpensive sources. You see, profit margins are the issue. There’s no real reason for the energy companies to invest in energy that gives them razor thin margins, so just stick to gasoline. The government will spend billions on its military and kill thousands of soldiers to protect overseas oil interests, private industry doesn’t have to lift a finger nor have any responsibility.
Don’t expect CNG any time soon, despite its low cost, low emissions, and practicality. This is AMERICA! We live on idealogy, not on practicality.
Re: # 30 DY said, on September 16th, 2008 at 3:59 am..
Sorry, but I think they use CNG or Propane in Australia
Liquified Natural Gas (LNG) is natural gas condensed into a liquid at close to atmospheric pressure by cooling it to approx. −163 °C (−260 °F)
The reduction in volume would be nice, but the cryogenic tank would be an expensive option…