On a vaguely related note, as his Presidency winds down, Bush has started the healing process. It will take many years, but we are a strong nation. Perhaps he will stop here to gather strength for the long road ahead.
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I’m afraid racism will decide the outcome.:-(
Is racist a demographic? Probably, but one hard to measure.
Here we have a black candidate with appeal, smart, articulate, visionary and addressing the issues affecting Americans. Better yet, running against a party and president whose polls are in the gutter. Yet, he is tie with McCain – a twin of Bush. A candidate banking to rally voters with cold war era nationalism.
It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see where this election may go. Let’s face it, America is on the decline. It doesn’t happen over night but we are a decade into it. The emerging powers are Russia and China and guess who’s helping them there?
As in all previous Presidential elections, the results will be determined by the white male. Without the white male vote, there is no way a person can win the office.
Well, right now all the groups have sorted out to a fairly close popular vote? That breaks out to a small but firm margin for Obama thru the electoral college.
But the vote that can swing this election is the youth vote. They are strongly Obama. Obama just needs to figure out a way to get that vote to the polls on election day. If he does, he wins by a landslide. If not, looks like it could be close what with the fundies all reved up again to vote their morals.
Sheep really do deserve wolves, but year after year?
#3
Ahh, the famous “youth vote”. I think you’re correct but I also think this is the same demo who were so excited about John Heinz Kerry. Chris Matthews told me so. They don’t vote, no matter what Bruce and John Bon tell them.
#1 Dallas – I’m afraid you’re right – and not just about the outcome of the election. This particular election comes down to race.
Look at the big picture.
The introduction of the Republican party’s “Southern Strategy” – cynically introduced for Reagan’s first presidential run, started us down a path of divisiveness that has firmly taken hold. Now, for the Republicans, it’s party first, country last. The Repubs will swallow any nonsense, believe any lie, and shut their eyes to any truth – to win.
Meanwhile, in another kind of partisanship, some Democrats will vote for the other party because their candidate lost in the primaries.
#1 Dallas also said, “It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see where this election may go. Let’s face it, America is on the decline.”
You’re right on that point also, and it only has a little to do with party politics. I can’t think of another country (and I’ve been to many) where there is such a high level of disrespect for knowledge, and the people who have some. We don’t like smart people because they make us feel inferior.
Instead of being a compliment, and a status to strive for, being a so-called “elite” is an insult. Like most insults, it’s aimed inaccurately – but look at how the word is used.
My iPod can cook pancakes, so everything is OK.
We are truly f’in doomed.
You forgot the word older. Retirees/AARP crowd have the highest voter turnout of anyone.
China, yes, Russia, no way. They are still f-ed up as they have always been.
#8 Russia F-ed up? Consider Russia is right behind Saudi Arabia as largest producer and feed western Europe. They also have the aspirations and the wherewithal to be a global power (again).
While the US is jerking off in Iraq, squandering our treasury and mortgaging our future to China, the Russians are enjoying record oil profit windfalls and rowing their military by 30% per year.
Sounds like a problem to me.
Obama’s low in the polls because , though a great orator, he’s devoid of content except “punish the successful because they’re guilty and mean”. The profound depths of Clinton’s failure are just beginning to show. There’s no way Obama should have been the candidate. It has little to do with race. A Colin Powell would have much stronger numbers.
More than ever, America is fractured into many demograhpics and I don’t think any one will really tip things.
In more general terms though you could say there are 2 demographics: the people who pay attention and the “Jay Walking” clueless. It seems to me there are more people paying attention this time around, but I could be wrong about that. You never really know until election day.
Dallas
This is so typical of the left. Don’t vote for Obama….you’re a racist. Never mind that you don’t agree with his ideas that you subscribe to, that our lives are f…d up and and we need the nanny state to come fix everything. “Republicans are divisive” you say but follow your ads….”the rich cause all the problems. McCain has 7 houses”. Sounds divisive to me. In the primary, you were sexist if you didn’t vote for Hillary. I guess that doesn’t count now in Palin’s case.
This election will come down to the wire based on ideology. Your way, “I’m from the government and I’m here to help you.” or our way, “Keep us safe, stop wasting my money on programs that accomplish nothing and get out of our way and let us hire more people and get things rolling again.”
#10–#11==nice the way you two tweedledumbs make up your own quotes and references in order to find something to disagree with.
I challenge you both individually to actually address issues instead of boogeymen and find an actual quote from Obama that you disagree with and then state why.
I can think of 2-3 right off the bat that would fit your frame of mind==but the exercise would be good for you. Like shitting in the woods instead of the drinking water.
#11. BillM, So in your opinion, this election that brings the first black and first woman up for presidential office does not have prejudices as a factor. This is purely about the ‘issues’?
Come on, you are either a moron or a hypocrite. You’re own party is playing the gender card and you do the “typical left” shit? Never mind your other diatribe from the GOP playbook, it’s so old and boring by now.
Premier Election Solutions (Diebold).
Candidate of race X has 90+% of race X voters vote for him.
Candidate of race Y has about 50% of race Y voters vote for him.
Which group is racist?
#15 agreed. There is racism on both sides of the white/black fence.
Nobody has declared blacks are not racists if that is the ‘revelation’ you wish to bring into the discussion.
Hurricane Bush:
http://www.theonion.com/content/video/bush_tours_america_to_survey
#15–dusan==a racist is someone who only sees race when an issue contains a mix of different factors any one or combination of a few which can explain the outcome observed.
Why was Hillary ahead of Obama among Blacks for the first few months of the primary.
Some Blacks voting for Obama are racists, but what percentage that is cannot be known.
“Imagine” you are black. You have two candidates. Old white guy who will do nothing for you. Young black dude who promises you several things you would like to have. Racism or self interest?
No, like the Civil War shows, the racism issue is centered in the white trash dumb racists who will vote for the old white guy because he is a hero instead of the black dude who actually has their economic well being in mind.
You can be a racist and still vote your own best interest==unless you are a dumbass racists.
#12 – If you think I didn’t accurately paraphrase him, you haven’t been paying attention, but just for fun here’s one issue
BO wants to raise taxes on the rich to restore “fairness” to the tax plan. This is completely backwards. We have a plan that is based on a progressive scale, the more you make the higher percentage you pay. That is already unfair to the wealthy. Raising taxes makes it worse. A “fair” plan would be a flat tax with no deductions for anything.
Hell, how about going further and put a ceiling on taxes paid? One person can only benefit so much from gov’t programs so how about saying something like “once you’ve paid in 150,000.00 in taxes, you’re done – no matter what you’re income is.” That sounds fair.
19 BigCarbonFoot said that it’s about taxes.
It’s always about taxes for the financially comfortable Repubs – for the rest it’s about race. But you can’t play the race card – in plain language.
In years past, a candidate would NEVER EVEN MENTION his opponent’s name.
I like the way the Repub ads talk about taxes, while showing Obama’s face in the FOREGROUND and McCain’s face in the background. If you think that’s an ad about taxes, you’re crazy. I have to admit – it will play well with the Repub “base” ($$$) and the racists.
That’s why McCain will win.
#19–Big Carbon==can’t do it huh? Still got to make things up? I haven’t heard OB say “fair.” He could have. I have heard him say “repeal the Bush tax cuts which has allowed the richest to become even richer” but I’m paraphrasing the same way you are.
No, pick an exact quote because I think pinning him with a “fairness” argument is too simple minded==like most repug attacks.
In my own mind “fair” has nothing to do with it either way. The government has decided on certain expenses and “fairness” says the current beneficiaries of government services should pay for it. Tax corps, the rich, foreign visitors, whoever has the money but don’t kill the golden goose==ie, control/lower spending but no party does that. McCain says he will lower spending===but doesn’t say how. He is pandering and not being honest.
It would be nice to hear the Pubs substitute “No New Taxes” with “Continued Deficits on our Grandchildren” if they could only be honest enough==but certain words don’t sell so the mischief continues.
#2
“the results will be determined by the white male. ”
LET me put this into perspective…
HOW many rep/demo registered, PAY’d up dues persons are listed in the USA…
MOST of those in these groups are WHITE MALE and business OWNERS.
Between these 2 parties are 100,000,000 voters.
1/3 of the USA. As for voting age(just over 200,000,000), this number is CLOSE to 1/2 the USA. NUMBER registered to VOTE?? est.125,000,000.
NOW comes a hard question. Number of persons IN JAIL, that cant vote.
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/jails.htm
At midyear 2007, 780,581 inmates were held in the nation’s local jails, up from 766,010 at midyear 2006.
To counter the voting of the 2 party system, you would need about 60,000,000 votes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_registration
Here is a wiki for you.
Go down the list, and NOTICE something.
HOW many nations VOTE for a president(LEGALLY).
I ask 1 simple question.
how many of these other countries ONLY have 2 parties? All the rest have 3-4-5-6 different parties. AND ALL are represented, both IN the congress, and in the running.
#21 – Here ya go. The wealthy get too many tax breaks and it’s not fair: http://tinyurl.com/6qxdls
Here’s an idea: it’s a flawed definition to say a person who made 10X what someone else made benefited 10X more. Not all income is a “benefit”. What libs don’t acknowledge is that wealth can be “earned” whether through harder work or more talent. Just because someone made more doesn’t mean they somehow owe more back.
Taxes are not something we owe because of some nebulous benefit. Taxes are a fee paid for services rendered. My taxes are for my share of the roads I drive on, my share of the military protection provided. etc.
I would agree that neither party is currently controlling spending. To me things like most social programs, the arts, foreign aid, etc should get no funds at all unless we have money left over after infrastructure and defense spending. They’re niceties not necessities.
Here’s a direct quote:http://tinyurl.com/5fjg7w
“A: What I’ve said is that I would look at raising the capital gains tax for purposes of fairness. ”
He doesn’t want to simply help the poor, he wants to punish the successful. BO is one scary dude.
23,
“Taxes are not something we owe because of some nebulous benefit. ”
1. It is a benefit, as the ROADS wont be layed UNLESS you pay up, FIRST.
“Here’s an idea: it’s a flawed definition to say a person who made 10X what someone else made benefited 10X more.”
Its FLAWEd to think 1 job is worth MORe then another. yes some jobs require more responsibility, and MAY need more money.
The guy that got 10x more got a BETTER home, and a BETTER CAR. If you cant do the math, of a person that makes $14k per year and the person that Got $140k You need to go back to school.
And if the IDIOT that made $140k cant figure out HOW to make the most of it…THATS HIS PROBLEM.
PS.
I have told a few younger folks..
the secret to KEEPING/HOLDING money, is how HUMBLE you are willing to live.
Sadly, the demographic that determines elections are “stupid people”
AKA swing voters who vote for the most trivial reasons.
for example, “I can picture having a beer with George Bush.”
#25 – Sorry Dude but some jobs are absolutely worth more than others.
Other than lottery winners, people don’t “get” money, they “earn” it and therefore deserve to keep as much as possible.
#28,
so the person that works 3 jobs a week, just to make Ends meet, ISNT worth a tinkers?
The person that works every hour he can at work, and DOUBLE time, isnt worth as much as his Boss, that left after 6 hours?
#24–Big Carbon. Well done. Thank you.
Labeling anything “fair” vs “unfair” is an exercise because we would have to define “fair” to begin with rather than get all heated up with our own private hazy self-contradicting feelings over various interrelated issues?
What is “fair?”
Is it fair for one person to work 8 hours a day and get taxed at 33% while another person sells a stock for the same revenue and pays half that rate? Why should passive income benefit over hard work?
What kind of society do you get if a significant number of people live off of these acquired wealth techniques and don’t actually “work” at all?
So, to your initial comment if tax cuts are fair to people which program is more fair==one that reduces taxes to 90% of the people yet does tax capital gains at the same rate as real work, or one that maintains the capital gains lower tax rate and reduces the tax rate for only 20% of the people?
Is any tax rate fair that shifts the costs of government to the next generation and assuming that its not==where will the tax revenue come from?
And just for grins as everything is definitional===we could just tax the discretionary income of people. That way the rich could pay the most but still have the lowest tax rate.
But congrats, if the context allowed, we could have a valuable exchange of ideas. I’d actually like to know how a fellow fiscal conservative deals with the republican “no tax mantra.”
When intelligent educated people find themselves in league with the abysmally ignorant and greedy, analysis is warranted.
#23, iHotAir,
Taxes are not something we owe because of some nebulous benefit. Taxes are a fee paid for services rendered. My taxes are for my share of the roads I drive on, my share of the military protection provided. etc.
Wrong, wrong, wrong !!! Taxes are an assessment of your contribution to running the country. Not all taxes are equal nor fair. That does not mean they should be or even could be in most cases.
I won’t / can’t pay $3.00 tax / pack of cigarettes; I don’t smoke.
My total road taxes would be maybe $200 /yr. Yet that truck paying over $7,000 in road taxes is also causing all the damage. Though trucks are an integral part of our economy, my road taxes are supporting the trucking industry. The more I drive, the more road taxes I pay for someone else to destroy the roads.
Our family of three recycles. Yet our refuse tax is the same as our neighbors of six who don’t recycle. Even I recognize that to put a scale on each truck to weigh or measure the amount of garbage would not be cost effective. (Our sanitation is a separate bill)
We live in a relatively crime free area; cars and homes are unlocked. Yet some pockets of the community do make / abuse meth or shoplift. A higher proportion of policing must be used in that area of town or commercial strip.
Because we live outside of town with fewer people, our roads are plowed later. In bad storms, the next day.
A neighbor’s house and land is at least three or four times the value of mine and I assume he pays a proportionate amount of property tax. Yet he receives no greater police, fire, snow plow, or other benefit than do I.
The Federal Government supporting research in a university far from me might just benefit me down the road. The same as building a road I’ll never drive on. The economy as a whole gains.
*
To repeat, your taxes are not an assessment of the cost of anything. They are just your share. Income and property taxes are easy to measure yet do not reflect the actual cost for the government to service.