 If the smears against Palin Continue, you can be certain this issue will be brought forward. |
Barack Obama through Muslim Eyes – article by Daniel Pipes — What is a little frightening about this is that Muslims radicals hate “apostates” above all else and will not deal with them honestly.
Reports suggests that while Americans generally view the Democratic candidate having had no religion before converting at Reverend Jeremiah Wrights’s hands at age 27, Muslims the world over rarely see him as Christian but usually as either Muslim or ex-Muslim.
Lee Smith of the Hudson Institute explains why: “Barack Obama’s father was Muslim and therefore, according to Islamic law, so is the candidate. In spite of the Quranic verses explaining that there is no compulsion in religion, a Muslim child takes the religion of his or her father. … for Muslims around the world, non-American Muslims at any rate, they can only ever see Barack Hussein Obama as a Muslim.” In addition, his school record from Indonesia lists him as a Muslim
Thus, an Egyptian newspaper, Al-Masri al-Youm, refers to his “Muslim origins.” Libyan ruler Mu‘ammar al-Qaddafi referred to Obama as “a Muslim” and a person with an “African and Islamic identity.” One Al-Jazeera analysis calls him a “non-Christian man,” a second refers to his “Muslim Kenyan” father, and a third, by Naseem Jamali, notes that “Obama may not want to be counted as a Muslim but Muslims are eager to count him as one of their own.”
related links:
The Christian Science Monitor back in May was concerned about this problem.
This was a concern last year by various commentators like Jack Wheeler
Pipes himself outlined the facts last year, but this was seemingly ignored
The “Obama is a muslim” meme means nothing to me. The real issue is Barack Obama has a brother who lives in a cardboard shack and Barack Obama is too cheap to help his own brother out. Barack Obama is a genuine piece of shit.
So where does the cycle stop? If my grandfather is Muslim, would that not also make my father Muslim and thus also make me Muslim? By that logic, we’ll all eventually be Muslims even if we’re atheists.
John, this is a really stupid blog post. Firstly, why does it matter is he was or wasn’t a muslim when he was 5? Why would it matter if he’s christian now? Do you only vote based on religion?
Seriously, this is kiddie shit.
?Muslims radicals hate “apostates” above all else and will not deal with them honestly” //// Gosh, thats kinda absurd on various different levels.
1. Who cares what muslims radicals think? ((do they think?))
2. All Muslims, but especially radical muslims, SHOULD BE dealt with as if they were lying until they prove themselves otherwise.
3. Muslims also hate all women outside of the kitchen but muslim leaders talk to other world leaders who are women all the time.
4. Bravo for Obama if he is actually seen this way. Make those radical swallow another turd.
Dumbest “issue” ever==other than Lou thinking the half-brother is anything but a stranger.
Not to mention this excellent NYT article:
http://tinyurl.com/4kg2o6
“As the son of the Muslim father, Senator Obama was born a Muslim under Muslim law as it is universally understood. … He chose to become a Christian, and indeed has written convincingly to explain how he arrived at his choice … His conversion, however, was a crime in Muslim eyes; it is “irtidad” or “ridda,” usually translated from the Arabic as “apostasy,” but with connotations of rebellion and treason. Indeed, it is the worst of all crimes that a Muslim can commit, worse than murder …
With few exceptions, the jurists of all Sunni and Shiite schools prescribe execution for all adults who leave the faith not under duress; the recommended punishment is beheading at the hands of a cleric, although in recent years there have been both stonings and hangings. …
At the very least, that would complicate the security planning of state visits by President Obama to Muslim countries, because the very act of protecting him would be sinful for Islamic security guards. More broadly, most citizens of the Islamic world would be horrified by the fact of Senator Obama’s conversion to Christianity once it became widely known — as it would, no doubt, should he win the White House. This would compromise the ability of governments in Muslim nations to cooperate with the United States in the fight against terrorism, as well as American efforts to export democracy and human rights abroad.”
#5 — Unsure why this isn’t discussed more. That said I think these same countries would have trouble with a female President too.
#5–Ah Yea==clarify your central point. Do you think everyone everywhere including the American Voting Public should conform to Muslim Religious law? I don’t know but will assume this is a fundie interpretation of the law?
My goodness. The terrorists have won if American Presidential elections should be concerned at all with such an issue.
If it were true, all the more reason to elect Obama, publish cartoons, and bring the muslims into the modern world or build a wall around them.
Any more reasons needed to be energy independent?????
Following up on my last post.
So, in other words, if Obama is elected President expect the Middle East to skid backwards in a grand way.
Not only would the “Great Satan” still be at war with Islam, but instead of the Satan having a Christian Crusader as it’s head (excusable and understandable given that this Christian never knew God in the first place), it would be lead by an Apostate.
Islam has only three crimes punishable by death.
-Murder (sometimes, the killer can pay the victims family)
-Rape (sometimes, the rapist can pay the victim/family)
-Apostasy (without exception.)
The Apostasy death penalty is a direct consequence of the Crusades. Every so often a Muslim would go over to the Crusaders and turn on his fellow Muslims, giving up information in exchange for money, etc.
Turning against “God’s Religion” – Islam – is the same as turning against God himself and joining with the forces of Satan.
So now imagine the consequences of an Apostate Muslim taking over the leadership of the “Crusader Nations”.
#8 — Don’t we knuckle under already? And by your logic we should just elect the most offensive folks we can find. Oh, wait, we’ve been doing that already. Never mind.
The only way Obama could conceivably ameliorate this problem is to hand over all Middle East affairs to someone else and get some distance. I doubt this will have much effect, though.
To imply that we should not be “concerned at all with such an issue” while we are at WAR in the midst of these countries is an incredible statement to make.
Although a female President would not seem to be much better, at least she would be a Christian female who could send plenty of men to actually conduct the negotiations. Not ideal, but not blatantly offensive either.
As with all things religious, this issue can be viewed in many ways just after a quick wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy#In_Islam
But the main issue in all cases remains: are you guys seriously arguing the American Electorate should concern itself with what some foreign religious group thinks?
Should we elect people purposefully to alienate foreign fanatics?==Of course not, that would be caring/reacting to/concerned with what they think.
Its bad enough our political system panders to so many special interest groups/demographics now. Adding foreign elements is beyond the pale and by the way on this issue would violate our Constitution?
Still after reading wiki, it would be funny if Saudi Arabia cut off all oil sales to USA because of Obama’s religion. Short term a bad thing, long term?
May Allah’s will prevail.
Heh, heh. Ah yea==I see you do think this is a serious issue.
Well, lets all be honest and let the chips fall where they may? I would agree if the Muslims think Obama is apostate, he should not stick his thumb in their eye, and I doubt he would. So maybe the selection of Ambassador to Saudi Arabia should be done with care, etc, and Obama won’t make visits to their land. BFD.
Makes me think though that should the average reasonable Arab Mosque deny Obama entry over there that Obama should enter mosques in America. That could start some interesting dynamics.
Short term/long term. Muslims with their camel’s nose already under our tent. Obama the canary in the coal mine.
Let the chaos ensue!!!
I do have the perfect solution, it’s called:
Nuclear
Wind
Solar
And getting out of the Middle East entirely!
Oh, no! Please, just tell us if there’s any way we can avoid this impending catastrophe! Is there any candidate we can vote for that will stop this calamitous fate from befalling us?
I don’t know about you, but I think I’ll just pray for God to protect us. Problem solved.
Which God?
The god that takes all the E. coli out of my food when I say grace.
Ah Yea, I don’t know which god but he’s calling from Salt Lake City.
Romney?! I would never have guessed…
oh brother, John, we are losing you. Your article about productivy gains in the workplace being BS was brilliant. Please dont sully your good name with your personal political BS. We both know that Obama and McCain are part of the Council on Foriegn Relations and all of the other ruling elite crap. Its like John Perkins says, this country is ruled by a corporatacracy. These politicians are just like actors, the same as all the news people. They all have acting coaches and read their messages of hope and change from teleprompters. Do us all a favor and blog about how the whole system is a scam. Your much better at that. Leave the Obama bashing to Rush and the boys.
#21 — I’m leaning towards Bob Barr. And, besides, this sort of post gets me hilarious juxtapositioned ads such as this:
C’mon Mr. D, this is a non issue. Lot’s of afro-americans have gone through that muslim cultural identity crisis thing. And your Daniel Pipes has been running around like Chicken Little about muslim radicals since the 80’s(and making a decent living at it). Not that it took a genius, after the whole Iranian consulate hostage crisis thing it was one terrorist attack after another even if american press didn’t make a big deal of it. The idea that the muslim fundamentalists will hate/love Americans more with Obama as president is just stupid. I mean really, you think they’ll be dancing in the streets like after 9/11 if Obama gets elected? This is the kind of crap I’d expect from FNC not Dvorak Uncensored.
12. Bobbo 2. All Muslims, but especially radical muslims, SHOULD BE dealt with as if they were lying until they prove themselves otherwise.
What planet do you live on? Why would one assume that all Muslims are lying? I’ve had a few people who have travelled through India tell me that often the Muslims are the best source of information because of their honesty (Hindu’s, I am told, are more prone to tell you want you want to hear).
The radical elements of Islam certainly justifies accusation of being brutal, oppressive, and hot-headed, but dishonest? Quite the opposite in my experience. The handful of Arab and Indian Muslims I’ve known have always impressed me with their brutal honesty and over-the-top hospitality (even if, especially amongst Arab Muslims, there is a certain element of hot-headed volatility). What makes you think that Muslims are lying?
We would have had no issue with Islam had we respected it as much as we did corporations money.
But we didn’t because, as shown here in some posts and others when the Islam card is played, we look down on ANYONE that is not citizens of the USA.
We do it to aboriginal populations, immigrants, non-mainstream religions and so on.
But so do other nations. It seems that the USA is no better than anyone else.
#24–Peanut, fair question. Its context==talking about various groups that the American President will deal with in the future. I’ve read that lying to non-muslims is approved by their faith==so, if thats what they say their faith allows, why not take it at face value?
I was going to go on and say that no foreign leader or anyone else talking with an American Political Leader should be believed, nor should any politician==they all have agendas. Here them out, look for facts and position but “belief” should not be the first thing one thinks of when dealing with foreigners.
And my advice to foreigners about dealing with the USA would be the same, for the same reasons.
There are good “people” everywhere==rather an irrelevant concept when discussing politics?
the ignorance of all of the commenters here is stunning. It’s like everyone all of a sudden got a theology degree and is qualified to dwell of what is or isn’t a capital crime under Shari’a law. Glad to see that we’re taking Daniel Pipes at face value and revisiting the non-issue of Obama’s “Muslimness”. That’s really the point they’re trying to make, the Obama is REALLY MUSLIM, and therefore untrustworthy (or a Christian apostate – what’s the penalty for that, Torquemada?).
Dvorak, you are a sick puppy, deathly afraid of change. I love how you drag out inane articles about Obama because it allows those who support him to prep themselves for the stupidity of the attacks that will come.
Plus, this issue did get a lot of air earlier in the silly season, you were probably too busy stocking your bunker and worriying about Hillary becoming the nominee to pay attention. It’s about as meaningful to his qualifications as McCain’s 4 plane crashes before being shot down. Know anyone else who’s crashed four planes? Not an easy task.
Ah Yea,
You made some well reasoned and intelligent posts. After all the brickbats I’ve thrown your way, you do deserve a bouquet for this effort. I don’t know if I totally agree, but you made very good posts.
So if a Muslim man marries a Jewish woman, what religion will the children be?
Religion. Love it or leave it !!!
John, you’ve got to stop reading this crap from right wing loons. It’s not healthy.
You have the disturbing inability to distinguish between the small number of extremist radical Muslims and the vast majority of regular people who are Muslim.
This story is false, period. False.
So if a Muslim man marries a Jewish woman, what religion will the children be?
Bipolar.
I also notice that the line above mentions that if people continue to “smear” Palin, then this will come out.
Two points:
1. The only real smear I have seen that got serious play was where some bloggers (see the dailyKos) implied that Palin was not the mother of her son. But this was repudiated pretty quickly, even on the left blogs, and has not played a roll for nearly a week. Why “smear” Palin when it will be so easy to simply point out her hypocacy concerning earmarks?
2. But in a sense you are right, but only because the sleazy republicans will call every complaint against Palin, as well every request for a real interview, a smear.