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Some great stuff here. Ok if I “borrow” it? Nudge. Nudge wink wink
#182 – J, first, decaf.
Nobody is saying “THAT IS NOT WHAT HAPPENED!!!!”
You are using this governmental definition,
“Executive.
Governmental definition
The person or persons who constitute the executive magistracy of a state,” whereby only those who have held executive power in government qualify as having “executive” experience. Fine.
You have failed to show that there is more than an RCH difference in the actual skills and duties of a commander in their military context, and an executive in the government context. I say the decision making process and operational details are more similar than different, if not nearly the same. These include responsibility for large numbers of lives and dollars, working in a bureaucracy, and being responsible for the consequences of your actions.
Now, rather than telling me IN LARGE LETTERS, what an ignorant slut I am, perhaps you could demonstrate the logic of your argument?
#184–Paddy==thats exactly the decision they make for us when they staff and actually fund programs authorized by congress and more pointedly when they create litmus tests for Supreme Court Judges. As President has great influence on what laws get introduced and passed, if not just from being the executive, then also by being head of the political party he is a part of.
So, very impactful when it comes to laws that control our lives. Also important though in setting the moral/social tone/discourse of the country. Whip up the reds vs the blues when these personal issues should be off the table and not discussed as “political” issues at all.
# 184 Paddy-O
“I don’t, but that’s not a decision a Pres OR VP gets to make for us… Why do you ask?”
But the President gets to pick Supreme Court members (Maybe 3) and the President gets to sign legislation into law and with all the new powers GW and Cheny have given the executive they can just make up laws on demand now. The president also get to set an agenda for the country and with enough congressional support they can get the laws they want pushed through.
# 186 geofgibson
“You have failed to show that there is more than an RCH difference in the actual skills and duties of a commander in their military context, and an executive in the government context. ”
I don’t need to because if you want to talk about simple executive experience THEY ALL HAVE IT!!!!!!! If you want to talk about EXECUTIVE OFFICE EXPERIENCE Only she has it. Not Obama not Biden and NOT MCCAIN!!!!
If you choose to define it as simply as you seem to want to then Biden has much more executive experience than both McCain and Palin combined.
“I say the decision making process and operational details are more similar than different, if not nearly the same .These include responsibility for large numbers of lives and dollars, working in a bureaucracy, and being responsible for the consequences of your actions. ”
That is where you are wrong. A commander does not have the authority to make decisions outside his command. The level of importance and responsibility are much grander for a President than a commander. The President is responsible for a NATION! A nation of 300 million and has to be concerned with many more issues than a commander EVER would. The scale is exponential. A commander at most is responsible for a few thousand. Lets not confuse a commander with an admiral.
What you are saying is that because you managed a local McDonald’s that you are qualified to be CEO of the McDonalds corporation. Not the same job and not the same qualifications.
Those ranking McCain’s military experience as a bonus would be better served actually looking at that experience. He was promoted to Captain shortly before he retired, something that happens quite frequently for pension purposes, yet never held a command. As a Commander he drove a fancy desk while others did all the work. Before his capture he was a pilot. Pilots only command their own plane. Squadrons have executive officers that handle the day to day bull crap. Oh, and don’t forget that he wrote off five planes under his command.
Then you add in someone that was Mayor of Bumfuck Alaska, population 9,000. A PART TIME JOB people !!! Then she was Governor of a State, with a smaller population than a decent size city, for less than two years, during which she managed to invite a couple of lawsuits and a legislative ethics investigation.
BUT THEIR EXECUTIVE EXPERIENCE RULES !!! Ya baby !!!
# 186 geofgibson
“Now, rather than telling me IN LARGE LETTERS, what an ignorant slut I am, perhaps you could demonstrate the logic of your argument?”
LOL I didn’t see that part of your post LOL
I don’t think you are an ignorant slut because I have no idea of your sexual practices. But I do think you are an ignorant dipshit! For that I have seen plenty of evidence.
I have explained it several times and you seem to thick to grasp the difference. You even bring up an example of how ignorant you are about the kind of decision making involved in the military. Capt don’t make executive decisions they make command decisions. Those to words have VERY different meanings in the military and government.
The reason I use big letter is that you have shown that you have trouble comprehending and I thought they would help.
# 189 Mr. Fusion
I don’t want to take anything away form McBush but I think he did command a squadron for a short term. He still never held a an EXECUTIVE OFFICE.
The change she brings is that she’s a distraction so you won’t think about McCain being more of the same.
#174, J,
Don’t kid yourself that the disenfranchised Hillary voters will fall for it. I have heard many on the news today saying they feel insulted by the Republicans thinking just because she is a woman they will vote for her. The reason the are upset about Hillary was that she was a QUALIFIED female candidate. Not just a woman.
Well put, as have been all your points so far. Reading your posts and the lame rebuttals, I keep thinking how difficult it is to have a battle of wits with so many unarmed enemies.
# 179 bobbo
#178–lou==what change does Palin bring?
About $2.63. She still does the laundry at home and keeps what falls out of her husband’s pockets.
I’ll tell you what she is, a brilliant strategic move.
The point is that she’ll force the Democrats to hang themselves with their own noose. They’ll shout that she hasn’t enough experience which will only call to mind that Obama also has little.
…and once voters think a bit about how much less responsibility a Senator has, versus a state Governor, they’ll realize that Obama is nowhere near ready for the top job.
I don’t know who’s in charge over at the McCain campaign but that is one smart mo fo.
Gee, I thought the main reason McSame picked Palin was to appeal to ALL women as repugs are typically weak in that demographic AND just as importantly to motivate the far right wing nut religious base. That base would not vote for Obama, but they looked like they were going to stay home. Now with an alter-ego on the tickets, the loon-bats can enthusiastically vote their values and not their pocket books.
One thing about how “close” this race is. All comes down to polling techniques doesn’t it? I heard only one polster months ago say that polling was limited to those with land line telephones. If that is still true, I would think it easy for the polls to have a 30% error rate in not reaching the youth vote Obama has.
They say this election the women will decide, but I think it will be the cell phone voters.
#196–remoh==it was McCain that was arguing experience and it is McCain that has to rewrite their canned attackes.
Would do you think. If you can see this issue that Obama can’t?
How about substance for a change? Like she agrees with Bush more than McCain does? Thats she’s anti-choice. I’d like to see (for the fun of it==not the truth of it) Palin attacked for being a bad mother, but that kind of sleaze only comes from repugs.
#184, Bobbo,
But do we elect “leaders” to govern under the constitution and laws or to whipsaw the country back and forth by imposing their own personal values on others while their term of office continues?
To that we have our SYSTEM to blame. This Republican Democracy in America has stood the test, but it is shaped for a two party system. More that two and anarchy develops. A Parliamentary system is much more flexible to adapting to multiple parties.
My Congressional Representative represents more people than live in Alaska. And we are a very diverse group. We range from wealthy Chicago bedroom commuters , to big farmers and small farmers, to small town businesses, to regular Joes and Janes. Many in this district support abortion while many don’t. The same with every issue you can think of. So I vote for the candidate that agrees the most with what I consider important.
Why can’t politicians stay out of the personal lives of people?
Because they consider it important.
I’m thinking a national referendum might be the best way to answer the question once and forever. Let the people decide so politicians don’t have to sit on the fence.
Fusion–I too enjoy blaming the two party system for everything==but I’d guess the more fractured/special interest groups you find in parliamentary systems have the same issues.
No, I think this problem comes from the people. Not wise enough to keep morality a private non-governmental issue. Too many people think that to be moral that morality has to be forced on other people as well.
Its a real human failing, this misunderstanding of freedom.
#198
Lol. This is funny! I haven’t posted here in over a year. The last time I did, I can remember you going on an on about evil Republicans. (I’m a Tolkien fan so your name stuck in my mind)
Pretty crazy that you’re the very first person to respond to me after I decided to roll back in. I hereby award you uber-lurker status! Congratulations.
“I’d like to see (for the fun of it==not the truth of it) Palin attacked for being a bad mother, but that kind of sleaze only comes from repugs.”
I’m not gonna do the whole evil Repub / evil Dem thing cause I think it’s pretty juvenile. If you’re truly convinced that one side is more likely to smear a candidate than the other, that only makes you a fool. I could easily cite dozens of cases where it’s been done by BOTH parties.
…but go ahead believing that YOUR side is morally superior and would never do ANYTHING sleazy or dishonest. If nothing else, it saves you the hard work of having to step back and think for your yourself independently.
Remoh==thats right. both the same. Now get back into your swift boat and paddle off.
Welcome back?
#202
Ahhh. Now I remember why I decided to move along.
Thanks for reminding me!
See you next year. (I’m certain)
#203–Just last week I was called a “quitter” for doing the same thing regarding little league baseball.
Live your values, but you could be more discerning about a real discussion on point vs a throwaway joke line.
Are repuglicans evil? Only if democrats are too. In recent history, has it been the repuglicans that have resorted to smears of the worst kind, even against their own (McCains black baby etc) leaving the Patrician Dems befuddled and not believing such attacks would be effective.
Even within evil there are gradations and types. Quitters too.
I’m going to just repeat some of what’s posted above, but: if you have no idea who Pallin is, you’ve been living under a rock.
I’ve seen her in a porno for sure.
Maybe some of the “morans” here should get a peek at what real republicans are thinking behind the scene and will set in to the group think club once the anesthesia wears off.
Ramesh Ponnuru is pretty far right too.
http://preview.tinyurl.com/557crm
I am now willing to go out on a limb and say Obama Biden is going to win by a huge margin maybe even a landslide.
cripes
I heard a rumor that Obama gave a big speech on Thursday night. I checked all the news stations on Friday morning, and they had wall-to-wall coverage of the Palin VP selection.
Information on Obama’s speech? nothing!
McCain hit this out of the park.
vs
Obama’s botched Saturday 3am text announcement of Biden.
The wall to wall coverage of Palin as VP is due in my mind to be the worst VP pick of any major party ever! (thus excluding Admiral Stockdale) Worse than Quayle, worse than Agnew, etc.
In truth McCain did no such thing as hit it out of the park, instead he struck out swinging! It is truly an embarrassing debacle.
I am sick and tired of the GOP talking point lap dogs and their non-sequitir reasoning that Palin has more “Executive” experience, than Obama, thus she is more qualified to be President.
Who gives a crap what kind of experience she has? The truth she has very little of ANY kind of experience. She has not even been in the Governorship long enough to prove her competency for the job she has now, let alone being “a heartbeat away from the Presidency”.
She has zero experience on the national scene, zero experience on foreign affairs, zero exposure as an advocate on national issues, even in her record as Governor I cannot find one single reform she has spearheaded.
She got elected because the old incumbent Governor was corrupt and people voted for “anybody but him”. She has been nothing but a caretaker Governor the last year and a half.
The kool-aid drinking crowd of the GOP are finding excuses to like her and call the pick “genius” despite the very long list of much more qualified candidates who could have helped McCain’s candidacy nationally.
The perrier drinking crowd of the GOP are downright livid! They recognize the Palin nomination for the joke that it is: An appeasement to the far right social conservatives who have hated McCain for years.
Us moderates recognize the pattern: The Bush administration was plagued by appointments based on political ties, cronyism, and even religion rather than competence. Harriet Miers, Michael Brown, 200 current and former appointees from Regent and Liberty Universities, the list is very long. McCain had a chance to break the trend with a recognized proven talent as a VP, instead he just looks more like Bush 2.0
I have read all you guys’ arguments why Palin is the right choice and they all fail.
#188 “thats exactly the decision they make for us when they staff and actually fund programs authorized by congress and more pointedly when they create litmus tests for Supreme Court Judges.”
Welfare has noting to do with abortion being legal. Get a grip.
Not one conservative justice has voted to overturn Roe V. Wade. It’s now settled law.
So, as you’ve now learned, the Pres & VP can’t take away your right to an abortion. You should sleep better now…
#197, Bobbo,
I heard only one polster months ago say that polling was limited to those with land line telephones.
Good point. I remember from a statistics class (in a previous life) how a pollster conducted a phone survey of the Hoover / Roosevelt Presidential campaign. They had Hoover winning in a landslide. George Gallup was a new kid on the block and wasn’t listened to when he was telling everyone they were wrong.
Gallup reasoned that in 1932 only those with good jobs and money could afford a phone. The working poor didn’t have phones. Those who were in good financial shape saw little need to change while those hurting the most almost unanimously supported Roosevelt. The rest is history and Gallup’s correct call introduced us to scientific polling.
#197 “I heard only one polster months ago say that polling was limited to those with land line telephones.”
Interesting but nonsense. I got polled in March by a major polling org on the candidates. It was on my cell… So much for that theory.
Hillary vs Palin is no comparison. Hillary was a lawyer for the Senate Judiciary Committee, and after that a lawyer for a small law firm, hired because her husband was attorney general. Then she was a first lady in Arkansas and the US, and got a Senate seat in a state she’s never lived in, based on her husband’s name.
Palin’s husband isn’t a big name in politics, so she is a real feminist leader.
The hard-core feminists won’t be happy that she kept her baby with Downs Syndrome, but for the regular women voters who would have voted robotically for HIllary, she’ll be a big hit.
#211, Cow-Paddy,
Welfare has noting to do with abortion being legal. Get a grip.
Get a life. As the Chief executive he runs the administration. For example, while abortion is legal the Bush Administration has decided that they will refuse federal funding to any health care organization that does not hire those opposed to specific women’s health issues. Another example is the EPA relaxing standards beyond what Congress legislated in order to help big coal companies.
Not one conservative justice has voted to overturn Roe V. Wade. It’s now settled law.
That is only because Roe v Wade has yet to reappear before the Supreme Court. Every abortion case that has come before the court has been slowly nibbled away at the basic tenant. It is well accepted that Roberts, Scalia, Thomas, and Alito would vote tomorrow to overturn Roe.
Again, I say we should have a national referendum to determine if we should allow abortion.