A federal judge has permanently barred Arizona from using a state law to prosecute an online merchant who sells shirts that list names of thousands of troops killed in Iraq.
U.S. District Judge Neil Wake did not strike down the 2007 law against selling products that use of military casualties’ names without families’ permission. But he ruled that using the law to prosecute Dan Frazier would violate the Flagstaff man’s First Amendment rights because his “Bush Lied — They Died” shirts are “core political speech.”
“It is impossible to separate the political from the commercial aspects of that display,” Wake wrote. “For example, the state argues that Frazier can sell his shirts without displaying the soldiers’ names. But Frazier’s product is his message, and his customers’ message.”
Arizona’s law was enacted with little debate by the Legislature, and Louisiana, Oklahoma and Texas have enacted similar laws.
Don’t you think you wouldn’t have to explain Freedom of Speech every couple of weeks to the goofoffs running the country?
I wonder what the soldiers who died believing they were protecting our freedom would think about state laws that restrict those very freedoms.
Try as hard as they might, nothing will ever stop the bill of rights
The laws were created to protect indivituals rights not to be missrepresented. Not to snuff out the freedom of speach.
The maker of the shirts in question did not ask for permission to use the names of people who served their country. Those people should be honored, not used to further political stances.
The problem with laws like this is that it is so difficult for someone to stand up in the legislature and say it is wrong. That automatically brands them as “unpatriotic”.
Passing laws to prevent even using the publicly available names of the dead in protest? There’s certainly no ‘national security’ argument here… Once freedom of speech is gone, democracy’s gone.
Well, #3 illustrates how dimwit legislators get elected, again and again.
Didn’t know you had to “ask permission” to speak.
Given the dubious WMD pretenses that were used for starting this war, and 4,100+ dead and 30,000+ wounded, what amazes me is that there aren’t a lot more Dan Fraziers and Cindy Sheehans out there.
You guys act as if the Democrats never try to trash the Bill of Rights.
Coming soon to eBay: commemorative bobble-head dolls of the soldiers killed in Iraq – gotta collect ’em all!
gee GigG before you no one in this thread had mentioned ANY political party. There’s enough idiocy to go around to all parties
Its ok to pass laws that register guns, so you know who killed your brother.
But to pass a law that would protect your brothers name from being used to missrepresent him is attacking the bill of rights?
This is why liberals piss me off.
#11–CZen—they aren’t dead???
Good news for the family.
LOL
czen:
if the shirt said “dead soldier x says bush sucks” I might be inclined to agree with you.
is the statement false? is it a secret? do I need permission just to have this debate?
So it’s a subject of keeping the names of the dead soldiers private? well maybe he kept writing down the names of the soldiers mentioned in local news stations? Once it goes public, it doesn’t go back into private. I can see maybe “please don’t use my son’s name” suit, but I am sure there are plenty of names that overlap. How common is your name?
The original reason that these laws came about was because family members were shocked that their loved ones were being used as anti-war propaganda.
There are laws in this country that protect people from libel and slander.
Yes there are laws against slander and libel. And they do not apply here.
I have bad news for you all. The 1st amendment isn’t there to protect speech you like. It’s there to protect speech you don’t like. Regardless of your opinion, others are entitled to theirs, and in this country are free to share it, just as you are free to share yours. If you don’t like it, move. There are plenty of countries that restrict speech.
#16, CZ,
The original reason that these laws came about was because family members were shocked that their loved ones were being used as anti-war propaganda.
Oh??? Would you care to link to a few sources that complained about soldiers names being used for propaganda. BTW, if Bush shows up at a soldier’s funeral and then gives a speech about how we must track down terrorists, isn’t that doing the exact same thing?
There are laws in this country that protect people from libel and slander.
Sure there are. Now, what has that to do with any name on the shirt? If you suggest they are being libeled or slandered, please explain.
BTW, Libel is when something untrue and damaging is written about a person. Slander is when something untrue and damaging is spoken about a person. If saying that a person is dead is both true and not damaging to their reputation then it is neither libel not slander.
“The maker of the shirts in question did not ask for permission to use the names of people who served their country. Those people should be honored, not used to further political stances.”
What greater honor than to be remembered, by people who care? (And who are trying to do _something_ to stop the list from getting longer and longer and longer…)
“Don’t you think you wouldn’t have to explain Freedom of Speech every couple of weeks to the goofoffs running the country?”
From what I’ve seen law makers trample parts of the Bill of Rights on a regular basis, not just the 1st Amend…
Sure he can say what he likes but so can I. First of all he has to prove that Bush did in fact lie about WMD instead of make a mistake. After that carryabigsticker needs to prove that this is what directly caused their death. He has done neither and is being relegated to the Big Foot mythmakers and UFO nutballs.
#23–thanks GF. The shirt of course doesn’t go to the issues you raise. You raise them all by yourself.
Its called a GUILTY CONSCIOUS. God, you neo-cons are such dopes.
They tried making shirts like this for Vietnam when the dems were murdering U.S. kids but all the names wouldn’t fit. 🙁
bobbo, there you go, calling people names with no proof. I’ll pray for you. ;)snicker
#23 – Girl Friend
If you think “Bush lied, people died” is in the same category as Bigfoot and UFO’s, I’ma pray fo you, man.
You could use some divine guidance.
#23. “Sure he can say what he likes but so can I. First of all he has to prove that Bush did in fact lie about WMD instead of make a mistake.”
It goes to show how weak the argument for this war is, when its defenders are reduced to saying, “It was a MISTAKE not a FRAUD.”
WMD aside, Bush is an admitted liar – right before the 2006 elections he said that he was standing behind Rummy 100%, then right after, Rummy was gone. when asked about his flip-flop, he admitted that Rummy was on his way out the door before the elections, but they wanted to wait until afterward to announce it.
#23, GF,
Sure he can say what he likes but so can I.
Yes, and so you did. That doesn’t restrict others from also saying their piece to which you change your tune.
bobbo, there you go, calling people names with no proof.
Well lets look a little deeper at this. There is no dispute today, in late August 2008, that Iraq did not have any weapons of mass destruction or even serious military equipment as they were accused of by Bush and his administration. Over 4,100 Americans have died so far in Iraq. That leads us to Bobbo’s comment in #24,:
Its called a GUILTY CONSCIOUS. God, you neo-cons are such dopes.
You were the one who raised the issue. You claim YOU can say what you like. Yet for some reason, others are to be restricted in what they can say. Bobbo is correct and sure has hit a sore spot with the neo-cons.
In short, Bush lied and people died. And that ain’t about to change any time soon.
So if we want to talk about guilty conscious. How about the 854,122 abortions that happened in 2003(according to Wikipedia Ref Abortion/US). That number is more than 200 times the number of deaths in the 5 years of the Iraqi war. Liberals have a great time quoting statistics while they ignore others.
As a footnote to the “Bush Lied, They Died” T-shirt, the maker could note that:”And Halliburton made out like a BANDIT” !!! No-Bid Contracts and SHODDY ELECTRICAL WORK THAT ***KILLED GIs*** and OVERCHARGES FOR WATER AND GASOLINE – CRIMES THAT WE KNOW ABOUT, ought to have some Executives FACING A FIRING SQUAD !!! “I know, WAR-PROFITEERING IS HARD WORK, BUT SOMEONE HAS TO ***CLEAN OUT THE US TREASURY***, SO WE WILL JUST HELP OURSELVES”, says Prick Cheney !!!