Here is a chronology of events in South Ossetia:
November 1989 – South Ossetia declares autonomy from the Georgian Soviet Socialist Republic, triggering three months of fighting.
December 1990 – Georgia and South Ossetia begin a new armed conflict which lasts until 1992.
June 1992 – Russian, Georgian and South Ossetian leaders meet in Sochi, sign an armistice and agree to the creation of a tripartite peacekeeping force of 500 soldiers from each entity.
November 1993 – South Ossetia drafts its own constitution.
November 1996 – South Ossetia elects its first president.
December 2001 – South Ossetia elects Eduard Kokoity as president. In 2002 he asks Moscow to recognize the republic’s independence and absorb it into Russia.
January 2005 – Russia gives guarded approval to Georgia’s plan to grant broad autonomy to South Ossetia in exchange for dropping its bid for independence.
November 2006 – South Ossetia overwhelmingly endorses its split with Tbilisi in a referendum. Georgia’s prime minister says this is part of a Russian campaign to stoke a war.
April 2007 – Georgia’s parliament approves a law to create a temporary administration in South Ossetia, raising tension with Russia.
June 2007 – South Ossetian separatists say Georgia attacked Tskhinvali with mortar and sniper fire. Tbilisi denies this.
October 2007 – Talks hosted by the Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe between Georgia and South Ossetia break down.
March 2008 – South Ossetia asks the world to recognize its independence from Georgia following the West’s support for Kosovo’s secession from Serbia.
March 2008 – Georgia’s bid to join NATO, though unsuccessful, prompts Russia’s parliament to urge the Kremlin to recognize the independence of South Ossetia and Abkhazia.
April 2008 – South Ossetia rejects a Georgian power-sharing deal, insists on full independence.
August 2008 – Georgian forces attack South Ossetia’s capital Tskhinvali to re-take the breakaway region. Russia says its troops were responding to the assault and Georgia’s Saakashvili says the two countries were at war.
And – Here’s a Fox News video of survivors thanking the RUSSIANS for protecting them from the GEORGIANS!!!
The reason Georgia attacked is because John McCain misled them into thinking that the West was going to back them up. McCain’s foreign policy adviser is on Georgia’s payroll.
And just to prove that the Georgian President is in the right place hoping for support from the right people, here he is eating his tie…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26Hfh72CGbc
#29 That pipeline also runs through Azerbaijian. The Russians secured access to the Caspian Sea and oil/gas infrastructure when they invaded Chechnya.
Follow the missiles, both Russian and American, if you’re trying to figure this one out.
This goes much farther back than Putin, or even Stalin — hundreds of years. These late-comers are merely continuing efforts begun when the Russian Empire occupied Georgia in about 1809. And who knows how long they tried before that?
The plan is fairly simple: take over a small territory, move in hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of your own people to lord it over the locals. It worked for the British Empire (except they didn’t have as many people to move in); in fact, it has worked for every empire that ever existed.
In modern times, you get the complication of a middle class that must be listened to to some degree, with elections, etc. That’s where having a lot of your own people move in really helps.
I wonder how the people saying that every little place should be allowed to be independent will feel about the Hawaiian separatists?
Marc Perkel said,
“Here is a chronology of events in South Ossetia:”
Looks like you omitted the part about Georgia being invaded and taken over by the USSR, FIRST.
Leaving that most important piece of time line out makes you lose any credibility..
#33, Marc,
Very good point.
Another thing to ponder is that the news media wasn’t there when Georgia went into Ossetia. They didn’t arrive until some time after the shooting started so the old who started it may be suspect.
Also don’t forget that Ossetia had become a haven for smuggling and kidnapping and general banditry protected by the Ossetian and Russian peace-keepers. If this same situation had been confronted by America, they would be terrorists.
This was still Georgian territory. International law allows them to protect their territory and use police action against rebel as well as criminal elements.
Who shot first isn’t important because the first shots were probably in 1989.
NOTE: The Ossetia referendum is widely seen as rigged. When ever one side garners 97% yet only make up 60% of the population, you know something is fishy.
Fox News says it’s Russia’s fault. End of discussion.
37,
Yes, let’s go back to when tribe a took over tribe b 2 million years ago (2000 if you’re a creationist).
Georgia got their independence. Ossetia wanted independence. Georgia didn’t like that. Why bring the USSR into it?
#40 “Why bring the USSR into it?”
Because unlike 2,000,000 years ago there still people around who remember the USSR take over? Duh?
I watch a variety of American News Stories and I heard the Russian Invasion story first, then I heard the Georgia Attacked Story second.
Using the well accepted history analysis tool that the first story you hear is always wrong, the second story is more accurate, and the truth will take months, I’m still waiting.
In a very real sense, all political “ownership” of a country is tyranny of some form. Man is meant to live in family groups–not nations.
Anyway, Marc==when you say “don’t believe the media”–the media is all we have outside of devine revelation. You shouldn’t be so inaccurate. Absorb all the media sources, apply the historical rule, and wait.
Condoleezza Rice was fun to listen to on Meet The Press. She is pumping out the B.S. just as fast as Fox News.
41,
Yes, but the USSR does not exist any longer. Russia is teeming with billionaires and they love their free market system. Why the hell would they want to move to a surveillance / totalitarian government when the example the US is setting is so bad? DUH!
Georgia fucked up. They thought McCain was already President and that he would just ship some troops to that theatre. He was sorely mistaken. And now he chews his tie…
#9 has summed up liberal foreign policy.
Hating Bush is the priority, and supporting America’s enemies is OK, so long as there is a Republican president.
It looks like REUTERS faked some photos
http://russia-insider.livejournal.com/25329.html
The one good result out of this is that Russia’s actions pretty much kill the Kyoto Treaty. Getting Eastern Europe to rely on natural gas from Russia was hard to begin with, now there’s no chance.
Bush has turned Democracy into some type of aggressive cult movement.
#45 MikeN, I’m a lot more suspicious of the Russians than most people here. These stupid timelines about who started what and when are pointless. The Russians suckered the Georgians into it just a like a good quarterback draws the defense offside.
I’m not surprised by the Russians. I am surprised by the Bush administration’s complete lack of leadership and response to this. Bush should have led NATO’s action on this but instead hung around in China so he could go to church there as the world’s “moralist-in-chief”. Now the US in whining about Russia “disregarding UN resolutions”. It’s a sad day for die hard conservatives like you.
#50–Hey QB==you had a good run there before you got stupid.
Understanding politics by sports metaphors? Pulease!
And if NATO wanted to do something, what could they do? Take 3 weeks to move troops/equipment into place?
You know—tanks are “real.” Russia has a lot of them and is willing to use them. What does Russian get/need from the West?==NOTHING. What does the West need from Russia?===ENERGY.
That is a free pass for Russia to do as they wish short of an internal revolution, but Russians are no smarter/able than Americans/Europeans.
If America can fly 8000 miles away to protect itself, why can’t Russia go next door.
Silly rabbits.
#32 – That is one of the funniest, most perceptive takes on this I have seen, period.
OK, let’s go back to about 1200 or so when the Kingdom of Georgia was conquered by the Mongols. We could play this game all the way back 35,000 years.
The facts are, Ossetia and Abkhazia are legitimate parts of Georgia. These regions may have legitimate arguments for independence and there is certainly concern when a country sends troops to put down a separatist region. So, how does this justify Russia invading Georgia? Not to mention the havoc being wrecked outside of the disputed region. Why does Russia need to press all the way to Tblisi to protect Ossetia?
Definitely geopolitics being played on all sides with innocent people having their lives ruined in the middle.
#50, What would NATO do? Russia is part of NATO, but Georgia is not.
Bobbo, you’re getting closer to figuring it out.
Here’s a hint. It’s not just oil – it’s never one single reason. Oil’s bloody important since the only other export the Russians have is bad vodka. Take a look at Putin’s biography, pre-1996 and how he came to power. One more hint, a huge danger here is NATO falling apart.
I’ll leave the rest to you to figure out. I won’t talk anymore since I’m too stupid. đ
#53–Mike==good catch. You just trumped QB and myself. Thanks.
QB–you are dithering. “Its not just oil.” WTF does that mean? You have left the context of this thread and are meandering in the hinterlands of your fevered mind.
I guess you need a Hail Mary Pass and Reception to get back into this poltical discussion?
#53
http://www.nato.int/STRUCTUR/countries.htm
52,
So what are you saying? Is it that we are hypocrites to not support the breakaway republics, or that we are hypocrites because we criticize Russia for not acting as we say but as we do?
Assuming that the sparse timeline tells the whole story, it is clear that Russians are the “GOOD GUYS.” They clearly had the right to invade territory that is not theirs. Just as a foreign nation would have been entitled to invade the United States after the South seceded. Someone should invade Spain for not recognizing the independence of the Basques. The Russians had in no way exacerbated the civil conflict in an effort to claim control over South Ossetia. I also find it helpful to ascribe charitable motivations to foreign nations because it conforms to my worldview. Brillian post.
#58==Kelpie==you’ve heard that nations do not act on morality/right and wrong? Nations act on “interests” and power.
“I also find it helpful to ascribe charitable motivations to foreign nations because it conforms to my worldview.” — Wow! What a dolt.
from all of the comments above one could see that mass confusion and making sure everyone remains divided on the issue, preventing any kind of credible unified mass coming to light to challenge the “official” story in an accepted forum..
faked photos, conflicting reports,
cities reported to be in ruins that are not..
whats someone needs to do is get *people* from both sides of the aisle as it were, to unite and demand *extensive* first hand accounts from *the people* (read civilians) from both s.ossetia and georgia to be broadcast to the world. -then base our future actions on what we learn there
it’s quite obvious to me that we cannot trust the words from anyone
tied to media, politics, government, megacorps or military
about this conflict.
how about all agreeing on this *one* fact we have, and figure a way to get to the truth? -en mass.
tbh, nothing else really matters till this is cleared up. -to act otherwise would only help assign guilt to those engaged in subterfuge.
“when one points a finger, there’s 3 fingers are pointing back..meaning the person pointing the finger is 3 times as bad”
-something my father told me many years ago. -seems appropriate.
-s
Doesn’t America own the patent for “Response with Overwhelming Force”? Shouldn’t Russia be paying us royalties? This seems like a clear case of patent infringement!
bobbo said: “Nations act on âinterestsâ and power.”
Right you are
#59==bobbo=I didn’t think it necessary to state that my post was satirical or sarcastic.