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“It is Mexico where Nembutal is most readily available,” says “The Peaceful Pill Handbook,” a book that lays out methods to end one’s life. Co-written by Philip Nitschke, founder of Exit International, an Australian group that assists people who want to end their lives early, the book is banned in Australia and New Zealand. In the United States, though, it is only a few mouse clicks away online.
The book, as well as seminars that Nitschke offers, lays out strategies for dying. The most trouble-free and painless form of suicide, he contends, is to buy Mexican pentobarbital, which goes by brand names like Sedal-Vet, Sedalphorte and Barbithal.
Those in search of the drug, so-called death tourists, scout out the veterinary pharmacies that abound in Tijuana. Nitschke’s book, however, provides glossy photos of the many versions of pentobarbital that are most suitable for suicide. Buying it can be as easy as showing the pictures to a clerk and paying as little as $30 for a dose.
Morality Nazis will piss and moan over suicide as they always do.
My answer is the same as it for abortion: Not in favor? Don’t try it!
A question, does packaging and marketing a suicide “kitset”, make it more likely to be attempted?
Funny. We make a big deal about dying with dignity. Meanwhile, anyone who has ever “put a pet to sleep” and explained it to their children as “s/he was suffering” is either a liar or is treating their pets better than we treat our parents and grandparents.
Which is it?
I personally think that the quality of life scale, usually discussed as a range from 1 – 10 and making up part of the term QALY, can definitely go negative. When it does, and is likely to stay there, death is an improvement in one’s health.
Having seen worse than death personally and up close, I am glad to know that I have my own way out, even without Nembutal.
Considering the state of healthcare in th USA, if you have the $$$ you can receive the best healthcare in the world. Having health insurance doesn’t always translate to treatment. Come on how do you think United Health was able to pay their CEO approx $775,000,000.00 in options, plus a salary in 2007 (company’s own statement). If you do not have the finances and can not get health insurance, this is one of many methods that allows some end of life dignity and saves the family from financial ruin trying to save your life when the situation is terminal.
I can’t wait to see the “holier than thou” wack jobs responses.
#2 – Scottie
What you said.
Any society that doesn’t allow people to die with dignity isn’t really a society; it’s just a group of barbarians.
When my time comes, I don’t want my jaw cut off, I don’t want to be paralyzed or in a “persistent vegetative state” for 15 years, I don’t want tubes coming out of every orifice, vein, artery, and anywhere else they can think to stick them.
It’s my fucking life, and if I choose to end it, then it’s my business. No one else’s.
“My answer is the same as it for abortion: Not in favor? Don’t try it!”
Unfortunately, humans who could easily be born & live at any point 28+ weeks if they hadn’t been terminated don’t get that option. So, as usual, life (and death) is a little more complicated than the simple “If it feels good, do it.”
RBG
#3 – Mister Mustard,
Yup. We’re in violent agreement.
15 years would be a long time for that. Few people have the funds to support that long a stasis. We, as a society, are much more likely to intubate and leave the tubes in pumping air through the meat that was once a human only until the money runs out.
Then, and only then, will we happily and hypocritically pull the damn plug.
#4;
No, it isn’t. The fetus has no legal status.
Against rape? Don’t commit one!
People should be willing to acknowledge that any legalization of suicide or death with dignity will inevitably lead to more murders.
Actually, if s/o commits suicide there no criminal penalties. What’s the big deal? Get some poison and swallow. #1 & #2 act like it doesn’t happen everyday in the US.
#4 – RBG,
<abortion tangent>
Slippery slope there. I know what you really want. You want to improve technology to the point where a true test tube baby, from the point of a fertilized egg, can be brought to life without a human being wrapped around it.
Then you’ll be able to claim that since the life can exist without the mother that abortion should be completely illegal.
That is the goal of your line of argument, even if you spout such argument without knowing the full intent.
As you vote for the repugnican “life begins at conception and ends at birth” ticket, keep in mind that the same repugs do not care one whit for human life, only for control. For, if they cared about life, they might care about who is going to provide support for all the unwanted babies, the crack babies, the babies of 15 year old girls raped by their fathers, etc.
But, no, the repugs will continue to cut social services even as they create more need for them.
Hell, these unfeeling scum buckets won’t even vote to really reduce abortion by supporting real sex ed and birth control.
In fact, the same shitheads that oppose abortion support it as soon as the fetus reaches the 75th trimester, but only when state mandated.
So, be careful who you vote for, you may get them.
Certainly, you will get many more abortions with someone like McBush who will not support birth control and has, in fact, voted against it 22 times. Further, you will get many more deaths of women in backroom illegal abortion clinics.
Will your conscience be OK with that?
</abortion tangent>
Funny. We make a big deal about dying with dignity. Meanwhile anyone who has ever “put a convicted child murder to sleep” and explained it as inhumane torture is either a liar or is treating their parents and grandparents better than we treat our killers.
Which is it?
RBG
#7 & 8;
[citation needed]
MikeN,
You are right. That is why the death penalty doesn’t convey the message that is intended.
I can’t make the decision for anyone else to die. That is why I am middle of the road on abortion, anti-death penalty and pro-choice on suicide.
I don’t think we should take the lives of others. But if someone wants to take their own, especially because of a serious illness, who am I to judge? I don’t think women should use abortion for birth control or past the first trimester but who am I to tell a woman she should carry the child of a man who raped her?
The world is full of people who don’t fit into the molds that laws make.
6 natefrog. Oh, that’s the way it works. Well, then let’s legally say there is no racism or poverty and fix those problems too.
RBG
#13;
Actually, the Republicans have already done similar things to claim that our economy is strong.
Do try to not get distracted and stay on topic, though.
Apologies, #15 is directed at #14.
10 Scott: Yes, the slippery slope. Then by the same token, I know what you really want. In your ideal lefty-society it’s to kill all the non-productive over-developed humans, the downtrodden, etc and all others who are a burden on our society so scarce resources can be redistributed to better housing, food and medical care for the rest of us.
I’ll take the current general reality that if a child can be born and placed on the mother’s breast and it looks at the mother’s face & eyes (as seen in video of my 28 1/2 week born child), such humans are worth saving.
Will your conscience be OK with that?
RBG
Morality Nazi? The Nazi Regime had actual public policy for the euthanasia of old and retarded. Of course, Goebbels modeled his programs off of American research in the US.
#8
I’m willing to acknowledge the possibility that there may be more murders. But I damn well am not willing to acknowledge the inevitably of it.
Still, there are plenty of pills available right here in the USA over the counter that will do the job just fine. Unless of course you want a genuine Caesar Salad for your last meal, there’s no need to go to TJ.
#19;
I think MikeN needs to show exactly why his “If A, then B” argument is even a “snowball’s chance in Hell” remotely possible.
$30? I’ll wait for the buy one get one free sale.
#11 – RBG,
Convicts are neither suffering nor brain dead. In the pet human analogy I used, both were assumed to be in pretty bad physical shape.
That said, I do have problems with the implementation of the death penalty, not the concept. The implementation is usually racially and socioeconomically incredibly biased.
Blacks who kill whites are many times more likely to be put to death than the other way around. In one state, no one who could afford their own lawyer was ever given the death penalty.
Further, many on death row are routinely exonerated based on DNA evidence or other later evidence. Clearly these innocent people should not be killed. How would you make absolutely sure that 100% of the death penalty victims are guilty?
And, the death penalty has been proven to be neither a deterrent to crime nor less expensive than life without parole. So, as a punishment, it just loses in so many ways.
#17 – RBG,
10 Scott: Yes, the slippery slope. Then by the same token, I know what you really want. In your ideal lefty-society it’s to kill all the non-productive over-developed humans, the downtrodden, etc and all others who are a burden on our society so scarce resources can be redistributed to better housing, food and medical care for the rest of us.
WFT??!!? Where did this horrifically bad analysis of my or any other liberal’s views come from?
I know liberals are a dying breed. There are certainly very few in politics today. Neither Obama nor Clinton qualify. So, perhaps you can be forgiven for never having come in contact with true liberal politics or politicians. But, when you make shit up like this, please provide some link to something, preferably something reputable, that would show where you get such twisted ideas.
If you question where I got my ideas about the repugnican party platform, I’ll be glad to provide some links later. Turnabout is fair play.
#21, when you add categories of legal killing, you make it easier for people to get away with murder.
Consider self defense or cop shootings. Both cases bring in the possibility of people committing murder and getting away with it by using one of these excuses.
Now, you bring in death with dignity, and it turns into a duty to die for anyone without the money to spare. Such a system will be abused to let people commit murder.
#25 “How would you make absolutely sure that 100% of the death penalty victims are guilty?”
The only ones I feel comfortable with are the ones
with incontrovertible evidence. You know, the person rampages through a mall with a rifle and they catch him at the scene of the crime. Others should get life with hard labor.
25 MScott:
WFT??!!? Where did this horrifically bad analysis of my or any other liberal’s views come from?
That’s funny. Made funnier by the fact that you almost sound like you truly don’t understand what the problem is. I’m to believe your analysis of what I believe in is spot on, is that it? “By the same token” in #18 means I can just as easily exaggerate and skew what you personally believe as well.
But, as you demonstrate, abortion extremists know only to speak of the rape/coat-hanger extreme scenarios. Like that should govern the overwhelming majority of cases. When offered the gestational middle ground, as I have above, pro-abortionists change the subject mighty fast.
Take DU for example. Abortion is one of the most contentious issues of our lives. But you can count on the lefties to bring up or discuss the topic only when dragged in kicking and screaming. That’s because I believe deep down there’s one hell of a lot of guilt and heads-in-sand being assuaged by the flimsiest comfort of artificial legalisms and sophistry – along with a bedrock that is Convenience. The perfect final solution.
Now, after you link to what I believe in, especially “repugs do not care one whit for human life” I’ll link to Republicans who disagree with your own “horrifically bad interpretation.”
My convict point, of course, is how many people believe in the “beautiful way” the terminally ill and the desperately unhappy should be allowed to “exit” their lives, but then also believe such enlightened death technology could never be provided for death penalty cases, as execution procedures can only ever be described as cruel, unusual and barbaric. There’s some reconcilin’ to be done here by the lefties.
I won’t go much off-topic about the death penalty except to hope that you will take responsibility for all the innocents murdered when killers manage to escape or elude the death penalty.
RBG
#26 – MikeN,
Now, you bring in death with dignity, and it turns into a duty to die for anyone without the money to spare. Such a system will be abused to let people commit murder.
That is a seriously lame supposition. A duty to die? You mean like going out on an ice floe? Come on. I really don’t think we’re going to establish that kind of high minded selfless ethic in our present “I’ll drive my SUV and eat all the food on the planet, my kids be damned” society??!!? I don’t think so.
Besides, if we ever really become civilized about health care, it will be a nationalized health care plan (like that lefty liberal Nixon wanted) anyway, thus rendering the point moot.
#28 – RBG,
I’m sorry to mischaracterize you. I started from the assumption that you were going to vote Republican. If this is not the case, I will retract my entire statement.
If it is correct, I can easily make the case that the current Republican platform does indeed not care a whit for human life. This is not to say that the Republican party was always this way. It was once libertarian in nature. It has now become extremely authoritarian. If you vote for the Republican party in today’s political climate, you are, also, if not authoritarian, tolerant of politicos who are.
I will make the case about the party below.
I do not change the topic. However, since it is so far off topic and I have written about it at length, I will refer you to my more detailed opinion about it. Feel free to read it then get back to me here or at my own blog.
Why Pro-Choice Is Pro-Life, my most recent post on the subject.
I disagree with this statement and hence cannot follow the conclusion you draw below. As you can see on my blog, I have personally created four topics that have abortion as a significant or central theme.
Careful, you wouldn’t want to lose the argument by Godwin’s Law. Personally, I would have a hell of a lot of guilt if I managed to take reproductive control away from women. I have no guilt about the lives of the fetuses. In fact, my own politics, if implemented would reduce the number of aborted fetuses. Sex education and available birth control reduce unwanted pregnancies. However, the very same people who claim to be against abortion would rather hypocritically implement policies that have been proven not to be effective, such as abstinence only. Such policies ensure an increase not only in abortion but in STDs, including AIDS. Clearly, these are policies of death, regardless of one’s beliefs.
Good, see below. I’d love to hear how the repug party line is pro-life, all evidence to the contrary.
Did I make a single reference to the pain and suffering of the means by which the convicts are put to death? No. Did I make reference to unfairness and to the inability to ever be sure that the state is not killing innocent people? Yes. Check that again.
Given that death penalty has been proven repeatedly to be a non-deterrent and that I support life without parole, I will take responsibility for the murders committed by escapees who escape after the amount of time it would have taken for all of the appeals and then the final implementation of their death penalties. I think that is a sufficiently small number and an acceptable price for a free society.
(Post to be continued with Republican party platform statements showing why I believe that the Republican party platform is indicative of and created by people who care not one whit for human life.)
Mis Scott
I suspect you’re going to be wasting your time with the Republican platform regurgitation. All else aside, I’m pretty sure Republicans would disagree and claim their position has been mischaracterized, as you previously have. What, they are going to agree with you?
Re convict execution. There’s no criticism included. I’m just pretty sure you were on the wrong path from my original point.
Likewise, the miscarriages of the death penalty is an acceptable price to rid society of deadly scum and to prevent further innocent deaths. And now with DNA analysis as a tool, the death penalty is even more attractive than ever before. Our whole society is full of instances of unfairness. We compensate where possible and move on.
RBG
I will be using this PDF for all quotes. Unfortunately, the 2008 version is not available without an account.
2004 Republican Party Platform
There is just no way to claim that the death penalty is consistent with the view that all life is sacred. I don’t personally believe all life is sacred. If implemented fairly and without any innocents killed, I might support the death penalty. However, clearly killing is not a pro-life stance.
Republican platform page 77:
Republican platform page 81:
However, if human life was important, perhaps the people who draft the Republican party platform would actually … say … look at the data. From a quick search of Google Scholar.
Abstinence Only vs.
Comprehensive Sex Education: What are the arguments? What is the evidence?
From the above peer-reviewed article, in the executive summary: