Local school districts got a green light to offer high school students an elective Bible course without the specific state standards that some contend are necessary to guide well-intentioned teachers from straying into religious proselytizing.
In the end, the board’s coalition of social conservatives prevailed, 10-5. Some religious experts immediately expressed dismay.
“I predict we’re headed for a constitutional train wreck,” said Mark Chancey, chairman of the religious studies department at Southern Methodist University. “The people who suffer will be the educators and the students, and the people who will foot the bill will be us the taxpayers.”
State board members, who balked at establishing state standards because they might be too difficult to write, were wrong, John Ferguson of Howard Payne University said. How can small school districts develop sound standards, he wondered?
“I’m not sure where these small districts with the six-man football teams in West Texas are going to come up with constitutional Bible scholars to help them craft these (standards),” Ferguson said.
Texans will be paying the bill for True Believers. Studies of existing courses found most of the courses were explicitly devotional with almost exclusively Christian, usually Protestant, perspectives. It also found that most were taught by teachers who were not familiar with the issue of separation of church and state.
Ok before all of you start bashing religion…ITS ELECTIVE. STFU
I have no problem with this, as long as standards are established at the State level.
A good “Biblical Criticism” course would do wonders for these kids at the educational level, while getting them to read the Bible, too. ‘Course this would really frost the more Conservative folks.
Without standards, it’s a prayer meeting…. As an Elective, I suppose there’s not a lot to complain about (non-Christian kids, or those who’s parent’s object, probably could get as much good out of “how to work the cigarette machine”, but….), however there’s a “Church v.s. State” issue about holding these classes in the School building that may get the ACLU’s attention.
Regards,
Stu.
Do you have charter schools or separate school systems in the US? For example, we have a Catholic school system and religious charter schools in Canada – all receiving equivalent public funding. They all have to meet the same curriculum and testing requirements.
The public school system has no religious education in it, nor does it need to.
#3–QB==we have charter schools but no school receiving federal funds can “teach religion.” They can teach about religion so it gets muddled some times.
I read a good op-ed last week. Some guy said the whole ID in school was a stupid issue. The whole point was that with 8000 different school districts, let all the schools teach whatever they want and trust to local control to work these things out. Its a good argument to a point and I suppose “ultimately” only a few 1000’s of kiddies would get hurt, but under the same philosophy, why not let small local communities bring back slavery. or polygamy?
Freedom–the right to agree with me.
#5 One other note about the Alberta system. You select which school board gets you tax money, public or separate (Catholic).
The key to making it work is ensuring that all schools meet standards for core curriculum. For example, you can teach ID or spontaneous combustion to your heart’s content but the teachers still have to be qualified to teach the base curriculum and the students have to pass provincial exams in core subjects in Grades 3, 6, 9, and 12. I’m not a big fan of standardized testing but it seems to work.
Also the students can pick their science subjects in Grades 11 or 12 (they have to do one). If they don’t do biology then their options are limited for post-secondary education in that area.
There are some hard core fundamentalist charter Christian schools but they don’t have as much draw as the sports, arts, or foreign language charter schools.
I was a little surprised to see that the majority of Bible courses are found to be “devotional.” I’ve had Scripture classes at Catholic college AND at a seminary, and none of them were “devotional” in nature. We studied historicity, criticism, and the like. Even the Scripture classes I had in the novitiate weren’t ‘devotional’. Of course, all my experiences have been in the NE USA.
I think religion is a little like porn. It is dangerous to pressure it upon those underage. Individuals simply do not have the critical skills to do their own research.
I have no problem with religion in the class room on a college campus for a historical perspective or for educational purposes if it is a religious institution, but not before.
It really needs to be labeled NC17.
Elective first with mandatory following in its heels. Get the popcorn out and watch Texas (and the other religious states) implode. Why do these people who push this religious agenda hate their citizens so much?
#5–QB==whats wrong with standardized tests? Its a valid review tool as a check on the system. The errors that might be complained of fail in comparison to the harm caused when there is no check at all on how things are going?
Good for them. We should let local schools teach whatever they want.
I could teach a high school course on the bible that could pass constitutional mustard.
It would include exploring the historical context of the Bible, comparison of old testament Jewish mythology with Egyptian and Babylonian of the same time period. It would also show the origins of the Jesus myth comparing it with pre-christian “Sun God” worship of Dionysis and Mithras and the egyptian worship of Osiris and Isis. I would also go into detail about biblical changes made during the Council of Nicea.
In other words, it would do a thorough job of pissing off the “literalist” evangelicals, and they would probably cancel the course, and never do it again.
#10 – Lyin’ Mike
Even if it involves “devotional” shit like bowing towards Mecca and praying to Allah? Five times a day?
I think they should fuck with them and get them 180 degrees out from Mecca – five times a day. Allah would be saying, “WTF, I smell ass.” That Allah is such a funny guy!
Another good reson not to live in Texas.
Mustard, yeah, and they’re doing it in New York.
#15 – Lyin’ Mike
Wtf are you tawkin about, Lyin’ Mike??
The point isn’t whether this is an elective course or not. It’s whether taxpayer money should be going towards teaching Christianity. The constitution says you can’t do this…period.
If you want to learn about the Bible, fraking go to church!
If you want your kid to have a daily dose of the Bible, fraking send them to a private school if you’re too lazy to do it yourself.
If you don’t understand why this is a bad idea, you probably went to a Texas public school.
#17 “The constitution says you can’t do this…period.”
Actually, the constitution doesn’t say anything of the kind. Please quote the line(s) from the constitution that says this…
#18 – Patrick
>>Actually, the constitution doesn’t say anything of
>>the kind. Please quote the line(s) from the
>>constitution that says this…
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. “
Bobbo said: “QB==whats wrong with standardized tests?”
As I said, it seems to be working. I used to work as a Psychometrician (yea, I don’t even put that on my resume now) so I’m personally a bit leery of them. Nothing major.
To whomever may be interested, here in France separating church and state(and thus, school) is very important. However, we do have private religious schools that get public funding ( teachers are more or less paid by the state).These school have to teach the same curriculum as the public schools and are controlled regularly. Religious courses must be elective ( and not state paid), there must be no religious proselitism, and the “values of the republic” must be taught and followed ( tolerance, …).
As french catholic schools often have a better level than public schools, most of their students are there for the good teaching level, and not for the religion courses.
Apart from that, we have, in public universities, courses about religions, including the bible, from a scientist point of view ( history, anthropology, …)
Well, if they must have a Bible course, I’d like to see an “Errors in The Bible” Course !!! There’s LOADS OF ERRORS in the Bible, and AIRING THAT “DIRTY LAUNDRY” might persuade some of the “Impressionable” Yutes that the Bible may NOT BE THE WORD OF GOD, but a book of fables cooked up by some old guys with beards who wanted to be God !!!
P.S. If the Course is to be an “Elective”, why not have the students “Elect” to have the class in the Church of their choice and not in a Public Facility supported by all the taxpayers ??? That would certainly Pass Constitutional Muster, and not cost the taxpayers anything !!! But of course, the “Conservative Christians” want to RAID THE PUBLIC TREASURY AND USE THE FORCE OF THE STATE TO ***IMPOSE THEIR RELIGION ON EVERYONE ELSE*** !!! Same old, tired story !!!
Kinda messed up if they have to teach this in the science lab.
#19 ““Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;”
So, in this example where did a law get made regarding the establishment of religion, etc.?
I agree with Czen. IT’S AN ELECTIVE. STFU.Sometimes, “dovrak.org/blog” takes their hatred of faith way too far.
Mustard, a Muslim school has opened in New York at taxpayer expense.
#25 – “So, in this example where did a law get made regarding the establishment of religion, etc.?”
Uh…the laws that established the public school system and continue to allocate funds for that system from government revenue (i.e. taxes)!
I THINK THE COURES IS A GREAT IDEA AND IT SHOULD BE REQUIRED BECAUSE OF THE FACT THAT IN LIT. BIBLE SCRIPTURES ARE INVOLVED I WISH I COULD TAKE IT BUT SENCE IM A JUNIOR IN HIGH SCHOOL THE CLASS WILL PROB NOT BE OFFORD WHILE IM ATTENDING MY CURRENT SCHOOL THE OTHER DAY I WAS READING MY LATEST ASSINMENT AND I HAD TO WAIT FOR THE CLASS DISCUSSHION BEFORE I UNDERSTOOD BECAUSE OF THE FACT THE WHOLE CHP WAS MANLY ABOUT A BIBLE STORY I NEVER HEARD OF -LUCKLY MY TEACHER UNDERSTOOD AND HELPED US OUT