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#29, bobbo,
Part one
#26, Dr Duh,
Eisenhower sent the first “advisers” to Indochina in 1955. The first casualties were in 1959, still during the Eisenhower Administration. Although I have had difficulty finding the exact number, it appears that there were about 800 “advisers” in Vietnam when Eisenhower left office.
#29, Bobbo,
First American casualties.
26 September 1945-OSS Lt. Col. A. Peter Dewey killed in Vietnam.
6 May 1954—CIA pilot James ‘Earthquake McGoon’ McGovern and co-pilot Wallace Buford killed in Laos.
June 8, 1956 – The first official death in Viet-Nam is U.S. Air Force Technical Sergeant Richard B. Fitzgibbon, Jr. of Stoneham, MA who was killed by another U.S. airman
21 October 1957-Captain Harry Cramer killed in Vietnam
8 July 1959-Major Dale R. Buis and M/Sgt Charles Ovnand {Chester Melvin Ovnand} killed by sniper; first and second names listed on Vietnam Veterans Memorial.
22 December 1961-SP4 James Thomas Davis, 3d Radio Research Unit, killed in an ambush in Vietnam, The Wall: Panel 01E – Row 004
Kennedy took office in January 1961.
#30–Dr D==I agree. Seems like Kennedy is one of our most overrated second rate Presidents? About the only good foreign policy of his was to avoid starting a Nuclear War over Cuba and that may have been as much or more to the credit of Kruschev in simply recognizing our arms superiority at the time which had the bad effect of creating the arms race that we still suffer from today.
I’m trying to google now “who exactly” promised Ho Chi Mhin during WW2 that if he helped the USA he could get his country back from France==then we stabbed him in the back.
Domino Theory==nice little bit of Western Diplomacy there even more corrupt on its face than “bringing democracy to the Middle East?”
I know Obama wasn’t in the picture – he was bowing to Mecca at that moment. hehe, that should throw some gasoline on this miserable little fire.
#29, bobbo,
Yes, Kennedy and Johnson escalated the conflict. Johnson had also ordered a reduction in aggressive force for the last few months of his Presidency as he tried to start peace talks.
The peak number of Americans in Vietnam was 553,000 in April, 1969. That so happens to be during Nixon’s Administration. Nixon also spread the war to Cambodia, dropping more bomb tonnage in 14 months than had been used during all of WWII. Nixon later ordered the invasion of Cambodia by American forces. The resulting North Vietnamese support for Cambodian Khmer Rouge originated from this move. Nixon also resumed the bombing of Hanoi, only with more strength.
I suggest you get your history from solid sources instead of from those who never served, such as Limbaugh, O’Reilly, Hannity, Savage, and whatever other wing nut radio you listen to. I am so tired of the wing nuts trying to invent their own version of history and then claiming that others are stupid because they didn’t know that. Face it Duh, you’re just another wing nut asswipe that wouldn’t know the truth if it bit your ass. You disservice every person who was in Vietnam and every other conflict with your ignorant rantings.
Dr Duh,
I have refuted your claims that the Vietnam War is ALL the fault of Kennedy and Johnson. I will not deny their culpability, but don’t ignore the contribution of Eisenhower and Nixon.
Bobbo,
I think you need a history lesson or too as well. When you start by agreeing with wing nuts then it is time for a reality check.
#37–Fusion==why the unnecessary and debilitating hostility? Dodd never said “all” as you purposely but unreasonably claim. What Dodd said at #26 that I agree with does not conflict with what you post at #35 & 36. A stiff dick might feel good, but mostly all you can do is trip on it.
#37 Mr Fuss
If you want to get technical Vietnam became an issue during the Roosevelt administration. However it wasn’t until Kennedy came along that it became a potentially disastrous issue for the US.
It wasn’t so much that Kennedy cared about Vietnam, but that he craved the challenges it presented.
#38 bobbo
Well said!
Dr. Duh,
In post #17 you wrote:
I’ve only heard libs defend Vietnam. It was after all started and deepened by lib admins.
to which I replied in #20:
Wrong. Try Eisenhower started it and Nixon, after adding the most men and equipment plus extending the war to Cambodia and Laos, ended it.
to which in your unfettered stupidity replied in #26:
#20 Mr Fusion
Have you ever even read a history book?
Although the US helped the French financially, Eisenhower never allowed US military intervention.
Vietnam was a French problem until Kennedy (D-MA) decided to send in advisors. Your hero Johnson(D-TX) is the guy responsible for sending in US troops.
By the time Nixon came along Johnson had already created a nightmare from which he slithered away leaving the mess for Nixon to clean up.
The answer to which is Yes, I majored in American History,
Wrong, aid to the French was material, not financial.
Wrong, it was Eisenhower’s decision to send Americans to Indochina. The CIA were already there before any troops arrived too.
Wrong, the French were out of Vietnam years earlier.
Wrong, American troops were already in Vietnam before Kennedy was sworn in. Up to 800 of them.
Wrong, while Johnson escalated and sent more troops, the peak strength was achieved under Nixon.
Wrong, Johnson scaled back American attacks and bombing and started peace negotiations before the election and months before he left office.
Wrong, Nixon made little attempt to settle the conflict and resumed the belligerence Johnson had halted.
Wrong, Nixon did not clean up the mess, he just quit and ran allowing the North Vietnamese to remain in South Vietnam under the peace treaty.
Shit, eight wrongs in just three short paragraphs. Not a record but impressive stupidity.
Then Bobbo you write in #29,
Seems to me Dr Dud is mostly correct at #26 so I’d like to read a criticism of it.
A criticism of it? You want a criticism of what really happened because you are too fucking lazy to find out for yourself?
Then in #38 you wrote
What Dodd said at #26 that I agree with does not conflict with what you post at #35 & 36.
That is as stupid as what Duh wrote. You believe the garbage? Live with it. Duh is a troll. You don’t have much of an excuse.
#39, Dr Duh
If you want to get technical Vietnam became an issue during the Roosevelt administration. However it wasn’t until Kennedy came along that it became a potentially disastrous issue for the US.
Shit you are stupid !!!
Roosevelt had nothing to do with anything in Indochina. Of course you haven’t posted a link to any of the crap you post so this is just par for the course. Is this another of Rush’s blatherings or did you come up with this crap all on your own?
This is more than proof that you know nothing of American history. Geeze, I shudder at the thought of you defending Washington for chopping down the cherry tree or Betsy Ross as designing the first flag.
Kennedy’s economic advisers were a problem, pushing liberal policies at odds with the nice economic policies Kennedy had for America, like tax cuts. In Vietnam, they pushed land reform, that mantra of despots and dictators.
#41 #42 Mr Fuss
Judging by your dazzling grasp of the facts I can only surmise that you skipped a lot of classes.
However, your attitude does indicate that you spent that time in the Politically Correct Lab studying to be a dickhead, an elective for most.
FYI: Roosevelt aided Ho Chi Minh during WWII against the Japanese.
#44, Dr Duh,
I didn’t think you could back up any of your drivel. So, true to form you do the standard neocon wing nut thing, change the subject.
#43, Lyin’ Mike,
Whatever the hell are you blathering about?
#45 Mr Fuss
Although I wasn’t an American History major like you claim to be, I actually studied and learned this stuff never thinking it would become useful in combating arrogant dickheads.
Subject changed.
#47, Lyin’ Mike,
An opinion piece advocating Supply Side Economics? Mike, I knew you were at least a few bricks shy of a full load, but c’mon.
This guy was a wacko. He started his own “Supply Side University” that lasted until he kicked off then folded like the cheap tent it was. This article is rife with wing nut dogma that is historically out to lunch.
Shit, if this is your starting point, where the fuck do you end?
#44, Dr Duh,
FYI: Roosevelt aided Ho Chi Minh during WWII against the Japanese.
Hey Zeus Krist !!! The British aided the Vietnamese rebels far more than the Americans did. But all of this has nothing to do with your bullshit that Kennedy started the Vietnam War and Johnson reached the highest troop levels.
You can’t defend your bullshit so you keep throwing more out there in order to blame all of Bush’s screw-ups on Democrat Presidents. Bush was too chickenshit to go to Vietnam, he needed his daddy’s help in avoiding it. Your other hero Reagan stayed home and made movies where he wore a uniform and kissed the pretty girls.
Here’s the end point, since you adopt Scott’s shoot the messenger strategy:
http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F40815F6385B127A93C7A9178AD85F468685F9&scp=1&sq=max+frankel+vietnam&st=p
#23 Chuck. Cripes I’m GLAD SOMEBODY actually gets the gag as a satire callback. It’s unbelievable these comments. Even GregAllen? There goes his ratings. Is everyone who reads this blog 12? There goes the advertising.
#50, Lyin’ Mike,
Get a life !!! You linked to ONE paragraph in an archive of a report on a government announcement from 1962. What is your point? Next time, please use Tiny URL.