 
|
Isn’t life in a theocracy grand where science and open thought are laughed into their place and we can impose our will on those Godless heathen liberal states and people who, for some reason, we can’t yet toss out of the country? Especially woman who think they own their bodies? Ha! Good times, good times…
The Bush administration wants to require all recipients of aid under federal health programs to certify that they will not refuse to hire nurses and other providers who object to abortion and even certain types of birth control.
Under the draft of a proposed rule, hospitals, clinics, researchers and medical schools would have to sign “written certifications” as a prerequisite to getting money under any program run by the Department of Health and Human Services.
Such certification would also be required of state and local governments, forbidden to discriminate, in areas like grant-making, against hospitals and other institutions that have policies against providing abortion.
[…]
Mary Jane Gallagher, president of the National Family Planning and Reproductive Health Association, which represents providers, said, “The proposed definition of abortion is so broad that it would cover many types of birth control, including oral contraceptives and emergency contraception.”“We worry that under the proposal, contraceptive services would become less available to low-income and uninsured women,” Ms. Gallagher said.
#30 “liberals rarely think with anything more than feelings and good intentions.”
And we all know what road is paved with good intentions…
#38, the road of clichés?
#32 bobbo
Now you’re just being lazy. At least have the courtesy of making your own arguments.
#40–Dr D==I think my “argument” is as valid as yours with about as much thought put into it. You are right though, my argument is COMPLETELY LAZY AND FUCKTARDED. Heh, Heh.
The sarcastic “Why I’m Voting Republican” video is here:
http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/
although too many or our good citizens think it is sound policy. Anybody see “30 Days” with the religious wing bat who didn’t think gays should be allowed to adopt? Her argument was she was ok with the gays having their own opinion but when they adopted kids they were infringing on her right to her opinion as in isn’t a democracy about the majority voting their values? Dumb as a post.
#35, bobbo, there people who call themselves “Liberals” and others who call themselves “Conservatives.” Depending on the issue, their positions can probably be described a liberal or not. Both groups are likely equally liberal, just not in the same areas. But neither of these groups would I trust over the other to protect any freedoms I have.
Perhaps that is more clear?
#42 bobbo
Come on bobbo, it’s not our fault you’re gay. Give it a rest.
#43–SL==that makes sense, the whole fragility of freedom being that others will take yours in its name? But I think you are still mis-labeling people. I think “traditional” liberals and conservatives, and libertarians all protect the notion of “freedom.” The harm comes from the extremes of these groups that still somehow gain the label of the more centrist philosophy.
When the mainstream group is not differentiated from the fringe group, all kinds of mischief is about.
This is also present in our growing recognition of the Muslim Threat, aka Extremist Muslim threat. What is the threat of theocratic muslimists? Is it only Arabs, or just a few on the extreme?
We humans tend to think in terms of labels, its easier. Surely we can avoid this when it becomes the very point and essence of a discussion? Its the challenge that so far Dr Dobbs is failing.
No one makes Muslims eat pork.
Someone opposed to abortion on religious grounds shouldn’t be discriminated against in a politically correct hospital or department of medicine in a university.
This is a “Zzzzzz, so what?” article.
Monty Python were right. Every sperm (and egg) are sooo precious that anything getting in their way from developing into a human Republican voter is an abomination in the eyes of (fill in your deity of choice).
That’s why rape was invented in the first place.
I’m substituting the agreement form for a look-alike that changes the wording all around. Only doctors and nurses who practice abortion and euthanasia will be allowed to work on me. If I ever get pregnant, I don’t want religious zealotry holding them back.
#45, bobbo, freedom can sometimes be a very ugly thing. The best you can do (if you are trying to be consistent) is devise a system to protect individual rights (life, liberty, property) and let the people do with them as they choose. That is what our Constitution attempted to do; and has succeeded in some regards but failed completely in others. Anything else is, in one way or another, a deceit.
#46 “Someone opposed to abortion on religious grounds shouldn’t be discriminated against in a politically correct hospital or department of medicine in a university.”
If I hire you to perform a job and you refuse to do it, I’ll just fire you. See how freedom works?
#42 – bobbo – The sarcastic “Why I’m Voting Republican” video is here:
http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/
So true! 😀
#44 – Dr Dodd – …it’s not our fault you’re gay.
Running out of arguments?
#50–Thanks Jag==don’t miss clicking on “More About This Movie” on the Top Right–it gives a bit more information.
Some of its debatable and even slanted, but still a good part of the debate/analysis.
#51 – bobbo
I had a quick look and it looks interesting. I’ll read more later. Good find. Thanks again.
Looks like an election is coming again. Those bloody-fanged liberals who want to throw everyone in concentration camps for forced abortions before forcing them into a gay marriage are running around again, dutifully described by the denizens of talk-radio.
Freedom is what is wanted. Freedom to ban abortion. Freedom to ban gay marriage. Freedom to ban science, in favor of the buy-bull. Sweet, sweet freedom.
Most doctors want nothing to do with abortion, yet during residency, they have to do a rotation in gynecology as well. What if the hospital required abortion as part of medical training? Shouldn’t someone be able to refuse that, or would you rather say that believing Catholics need not apply?
The reason groups like Planned Parenthood don’t like this legislation is because it’s an obvious use of a wedge strategy to inject religion into government. The discrimination part is equivalent to the “academic freedom” argument of the creationists. What the authors of this bill want is to stack family planning organizations with anti-choice nuts that will refuse to give patients comprehensive information, effectively making it impossible for the patient to make an informed decision about their situation.
Ever wonder why they need this legislation in the first place? Was there really a rash of nurses saying they can’t get hired at government funded family planning agencies? No! They just go sign up with one of the Christian funded look-alike clinics next door that use deception to push religion and prevent vulnerable, young women from getting proper counseling.
This is pro-theocracy legislation disguised as religious freedom, and everybody knows it.
#55–Muffin==very well stated. Nice breath of fresh air.
#54–Mike==We are in rare agreement, most doctors don’t want to do abortions. These intelligent highly educated people don’t want to be around people like you if at all possible. You probably agree with #53–conservative freedom, and don’t even realize he is goofing on you.
This goes way beyond simply lying. What is it Mike?
53,
What a crock of shit. You have no real arguments so you use overblown hyperbole to scare people. Too bad you have no facts to back up your accusations. Then again, your ilk never do.
Stated from my pro choide point of veiw:
Some forms of birth control ARE abortion.
IUDs, they dont prevent fertilization, they prevent inplantation. So if live begins at conception, then the IUD causes an abortion.
Same for the morning after pill.
Point is, SO WHAT?
#54, Lyin’ Mike,
What if the hospital required abortion as part of medical training? Shouldn’t someone be able to refuse that, or would you rather say that believing Catholics need not apply?
Duh, guess what. Every medical school currently requires physicians know how to do an abortion. It is standard procedure where in an emergency the fetus has died and must be aborted. The same with amputations where a living part of a person must be removed to save the life of the person. If you refuse to learn it you will most likely either fail or need to get 100% on every other part. Religion does not play much of a role in learning medicine.
So if Planned Parenthood objects, they should stop taking government funds.
#61, Lyin’ Mike,
Why? They perform a social service that benefits society for the government. Would you rather the government perform these services itself?
#61–Mikey==In a vacuum, you are right. In the real world, you and the Bushies are wrong:
1. Most healthcare entities take government dollars because they take government patients. Refuse the government money, and its the patients that suffer. Maybe just what BushCo wants?
2. “The Government” is supposed to represent the will of the people. In America the majority of people support a womans right to choose. Its only the totalitarian emperial pretenders of right wing religi-cons that are twisting the government to their own pleasures==all against the constitution and worthy of being impeached for.
I hate this Congress. Impeach Bush, Cheney, Pelosi, Whats his name, vote the rest out of Office.
Sex is a SIN!!! right?
See you all in HELL!!!!
A woman’s right to choose doesn’t mean the government pays for it. Here they are standing up for religious freedom, also supported by large majorities.
Your right to drive a luxury limo across the country doesn’t mean my tax dollars should pay for the road.
Most of the time when a government program helps an individual, society as a whole benefits. A woman’s right to choose does not mean the government paid for it. If, however, it is a legal medical procedure and her insurance plan pays for legal medical procedures, then there is no reason why that plan should not also pay for an abortion. You might find that the government pays for very few abortions through Planned Parenthood.
BTW, there are no large majorities in favor of abandoning abortion or birth control. Just a few radical wing nuts. As for religious freedom, by allowing religious groups to impose their religious tenets you are denying others their religious beliefs.