globeandmail.com: Mexico at World Court to stay U.S. executions — Another example of Mexico telling us what to do. Most interesting is the fact that Bush went along with this BS in 2004 and our Supreme Court had to reverse him. The main player here is a guy who raped then killed a teenage girl.
Mexico made an emergency appeal to the UN’s highest court Thursday to block the execution of its citizens on death row in the United States.
Mexico’s chief advocate Juan Manuel Gomez-Robledo said the United States was “in breach of its international obligations” by disregarding a 2004 judgment by the United Nation’s International Court of Justice, which ruled that Mexicans had been denied the right to help from their consulate after being arrested.
Mr. Gomez-Robledo said that without urgent action now, five Mexican citizens “will be executed before the conclusion of these proceedings.”
The court, informally known as the World Court, had ruled that the Mexicans were entitled to a review of their trials and sentences to determine whether the violation of the 1963 Vienna Convention affected their cases.
The decisions of the court, the UN’s judicial arm for resolving disputes among nations, are binding and final, but it has no enforcement powers.
President George W. Bush accepted the 2004 judgment and asked state courts to review the cases, but Texas refused.
The issue went to the Supreme Court, which ruled last March in a 6-3 vote that Mr. Bush lacked the authority to compel state courts to comply with the judgment from The Hague. The Vienna Convention cannot be binding on the states unless Congress enacts legislation enforcing it as federal law, the Supreme Court ruled.
Mexico argues that international law applies not only to the United States but also to individual states.
“The United States cannot invoke municipal law as justification for failure to perform its international legal obligations,” it said in its application to the court two weeks ago.
John, why aren’t you willing to bow before world opinion? Don’t you care about obeying international law? Why do you support trashing the Constitution?
The opinions of international bodies don’t mean squat in the U.S. of A. That goes double when it comes to trade.
Just keep in mind that if you agree that the U.S. does not need to follow the International Court’s ruling, you have no right to complain if another country, like Iran for instance, decides they will execute an American Citizen for some sort of crime.
Another example of Mexico telling us what to do.
And how many times is it the other way around?
[Fixed. – ed.]
The USA is in one of the dubious “executioners club” of nations. Others are Communist China, Russia, Sudan, Iran, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Somalia.
Apparently membership is not considered something to be proud of.
#6, Don’t forget Israel, S Korea, and Japan.
Since when does the UN have a ‘judicial arm for resolving disputes among nations, are binding and final, ‘?
America is the only “western” nation (North America South America, Australia, and Europe) that still puts people to death.
I have come to the conclusion that there is no logical reason to continue with the death penalty. EVERY pro-capital punishment position is a fallacy of emotion, or a fallacy of tradition, or does not stand up to logical scrutiny.
Its not “moral” either, everyone from Catholics to Secular Humanists are opposed to it.
Its not “just” either, especially when poor, minorities, and males are far more likely to be sentenced to death, than rich, caucasions, and females, convicted of the exact same crimes.
#6-Rick Cain,
Russia only executes people secretly now.
My biggest problem with the death penalty is that it is applied unfairly. We have seen time and time again corrupt prosecutors putting somebody on death row just to close the case, and exonerations later when an investigation is done or new DNA evidence is available.
The death penalty is final, and the innocent would die.
Prosecutors now just say ‘whoops’ and continue on with their sleazy careers.
I think Mexico needs to spend alot more time trying to improve things in their own country so that their citizens won’t feel the need to come to the US and kill our children.
Don
ArianeB — I really dislike hearing this nonsense when it is NOT TRUE. There are plenty of countries in the W. Hemisphere who still have the death penalty. Most of the Carribean for example. And isn’t Belarus and Montenegro both in Europe? They have it. IN South America there’s Guyana and Suriname, they have it. So what is this bullshit that NOBODY in North or South America except the USA has it? Where does that come from? MOst of Asia has it but nobody wants to mention that. AND almost all those nations that ban it have provisions for wartime death penalties. Again, not a peep. So how does this result in the conclusion that ALL the civilized countries have banned the death penalty? What’s the point of making this statement when it is not true. I don’t care whether people are for or against it. I just dislike the BS and out-and-out lies and propaganda.
Not because somebody else does it means that its ok. And still, how sad John that you compare the USA with underdeveloped countries such as Montenegro, Suriname, etc. I would have thought the US had a bit more of education but apparently not.
Mexico should work on keeping its criminals at HOME. Then it wouldn’t have to worry about this kind of thing…
The US should be honest about it at give up its seat at the UN. Nothing against the US, and Europe should be eternally grateful for the Americans cleaning up the mess in the first half of the 20th century.
The UN isn’t moving on anything, because of the veto-powers countries like the US, Russia and China hold. So it looks like the US has this sequence if they want to ‘intervene’ somewhere: 1. Try the UN, just for show, 2. Try NATO, see if they are willing to work with us, 3. Screw it! Let’s just do it ourselves and see who jumps on the band wagon.
And as the UN judicial system goes: 1.’Very glad that the UN tries to control the nuclear technology in Iran or Korea, and occasionally condemns criminal states, but don’t touch Guantanomo.’ 2. ‘Extremely happy that the UN prosecutes war criminals from Iraq, Croatia and Afghanistan, as long as they keep in mind that no US soldier will ever appear before the UN court, no matter what…’
The US are totally within their rights to take care of their own business (I’m not disputing that), but just stop with the expensive show that are the UN, then.
#13–JCD==thats a crackup. I love the lead in for I too don’t care that much about positions taken as anyone is entitled to their opinions, but not their facts. So, BRAVO on taking a stand for FACTS!!! Just give me the FACTS and I’ll make my own opinion, thank you very much.
Mexico at World Court to stay U.S. executions
Published on July 16th, 2008
Posted by John C Dvorak in General
globeandmail.com: Mexico at World Court to stay U.S. executions — Another example of Mexico telling us what to do. Most interesting is the fact that Bush went along with this BS in 2004 and our Supreme Court had to reverse him. The main player here is a guy who raped then killed a teenage girl.
Mexico made an emergency appeal to the UN’s highest court Thursday to block the execution of its citizens on death row in the United States.
Mexico’s chief advocate Juan Manuel Gomez-Robledo said the United States was “in breach of its international obligations” by disregarding a 2004 judgment by the United Nation’s International Court of Justice, which ruled that Mexicans had been denied the right to help from their consulate after being arrested.
Mr. Gomez-Robledo said that without urgent action now, five Mexican citizens “will be executed before the conclusion of these proceedings.”
The court, informally known as the World Court, had ruled that the Mexicans were entitled to a review of their trials and sentences to determine whether the violation of the 1963 Vienna Convention affected their cases.
The decisions of the court, the UN’s judicial arm for resolving disputes among nations, are binding and final, but it has no enforcement powers.
President George W. Bush accepted the 2004 judgment and asked state courts to review the cases, but Texas refused.
The issue went to the Supreme Court, which ruled last March in a 6-3 vote that Mr. Bush lacked the authority to compel state courts to comply with the judgment from The Hague. The Vienna Convention cannot be binding on the states unless Congress enacts legislation enforcing it as federal law, the Supreme Court ruled.
Mexico argues that international law applies not only to the United States but also to individual states.
“The United States cannot invoke municipal law as justification for failure to perform its international legal obligations,” it said in its application to the court two weeks ago.
16 users responded in ” Mexico at World Court to stay U.S. executions ”
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# 1 MikeN said, on July 16th, 2008 at 2:17 pm
John, why aren’t you willing to bow before world opinion? Don’t you care about obeying international law? Why do you support trashing the Constitution?
# 2 Improbus said, on July 16th, 2008 at 2:53 pm
The opinions of international bodies don’t mean squat in the U.S. of A. That goes double when it comes to trade.
# 3 Jeggoron said, on July 16th, 2008 at 3:04 pm
Just keep in mind that if you agree that the U.S. does not need to follow the International Court’s ruling, you have no right to complain if another country, like Iran for instance, decides they will execute an American Citizen for some sort of crime.
# 4 Jägermeister said, on July 16th, 2008 at 3:08 pm
Another example of Mexico telling us what to do.
And how many times is it the other way around?
# 5 Jägermeister said, on July 16th, 2008 at 3:15 pm
[Fixed. – ed.]
# 6 Rick Cain said, on July 16th, 2008 at 3:43 pm
The USA is in one of the dubious “executioners club” of nations. Others are Communist China, Russia, Sudan, Iran, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Somalia.
Apparently membership is not considered something to be proud of.
# 7 TomB said, on July 16th, 2008 at 4:01 pm
#6, Don’t forget Israel, S Korea, and Japan.
# 8 MikeN said, on July 16th, 2008 at 6:58 pm
Since when does the UN have a ‘judicial arm for resolving disputes among nations, are binding and final, ‘?
# 9 ArianeB says: “America is the only “western” nation (North America South America, Australia, and Europe) that still puts people to death.”
and JCD at #13 derides this as a lie by stating that most of the Carribean and Guyana and Suriname have the death penalty.
So, who on balance is more factually correct? Gee, I’d give the win to ArianneB. Not 100% correct, but quibbling to disagree with the more important “idea” being advanced? More of a quibble in a footnote than a countervailing fact that obviates the original position taken.
Add your facts and modify the statement Arianne makes to acknowledge your facts, and the statement remains a forceful indictment of the minority status of the Death Penality in USA. ((and note this post is coming from someone who defends the Death Penalty on moral grounds and speaks against it only for financial and procedural grounds.))
Re my post #17–acck!! How did all that garbage get in there?
Please delete paragraphs 2 thru 23.
Please post para 1 and #24 Starting with # 9 ArianeB says.
Was it me?
And John, the reason those European countries don’t have the death penalty is because the deck is stacked against those who would implement it. The public support is there.
#18, bobbo, the obvious error was humorous, but when followed by “Please delete paragraphs 2 thru 23” made me crack up. 🙂
#16 “The US should be honest about it at give up its seat at the UN.”
No kidding. I’m sick of seeing my money go into the rat hole that is called the U.N. Give up our seat, stop paying into it and kick it out of NY.
#20–JimR==I don’t see the humor, but a chuckle is worthwhile however invoked. I went to wiki and read up on the World Court. Expressly and upfront there are 3-4 reasons why the World Court has no jurisdiction over the USA and other sovereign states. Mexico is just grandstanding and so is the World Court.
In the US, the first thing our courts review is their own legal authority to even consider a case (called their jurisdiction). Evidently, the World Court is not so constrained. Too bad, in general is is a good idea–until you read where the judges come from.
Well, I just proofed this puppy, nothing extraneous here as I push the send key.
#13, JCD,
Sorry, but you lose. ArianeB is mostly correct. If not 100% then at least in spirit.
First, most of the Caribbean countries should not be countries.
Second, I would use the term “civilized” instead of “western” in her post.
… how does this result in the conclusion that ALL the civilized countries have banned the death penalty?
Simply because those that still revert to the barbaric tradition of executing prisoners have not risen to the level of being civilized. I don’t consider the government in Belarus to be very fair, democratic, or civilized. I don’t know enough to answer for Montenegro but assume it is a holdover from their most recent association with Serbia.
#23 – “have not risen to the level of being civilized.”
Yes, Japan isn’t civilized. LOL
#23, considering that you saying executing murderers makes a country not civilized is a matter of your opinion, and not fact, I would say your comments are just low on the “correctness” scale as any of the others.
#23 spewed and then crawled back under a rock.
Well, I’m glad to see Catshit and I on the same side of an issue for a change.
Yes, civilized. It is an artificial status by way of definition: characterized by taste, refinement, or restraint.
#24–paddy==Japan? lol indeed. The most barbaric culture on earth. Had they the numbers, they would make us all slaves. Put a veneer of industrialization over their fuedal slavery and you are ready to be mesmerized? Foolish.
#25–Sea Lawyer==for a word smith, you have been fooled too. Its not “bad” to be on the uncivilized side of things. Barbarians tend to get things done, bend the world to their will sort of thing. Doesn’t change the character of the beast.
What else would you call the world’s only super power that mocks a presidential candidate for saying he would talk to our enemies? Civilized? I don’t think so.
#26, Cow-Paddy
#23 spewed and then crawled back under a rock.
And your erudite, intelligent, educated, sophisticated, sensible, well formed, and considerate contributions to this thread are, … ?