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We’ve seen stories about how the Air Force academy and Pentagon seem to have been taken over by fundamentalists. This should be no surprise. Fighting for the freedoms that are slipping away. |
Atheist soldier sues Army for ‘unconstitutional’ discrimination
Army Spc. Jeremy Hall was raised Baptist. […] He served two tours of duty in Iraq and has a near perfect record. But somewhere between the tours, something changed. Hall, now 23, said he no longer believes in God, fate, luck or anything supernatural.
[…]His sudden lack of faith, he said, cost him his military career and put his life at risk. Hall said his life was threatened by other troops and the military assigned a full-time bodyguard to protect him out of fear for his safety.
In March, Hall filed a federal lawsuit against the U.S. Department of Defense and Secretary of Defense Robert Gates, among others. In the suit, Hall claims his rights to religious freedom under the First Amendment were violated and suggests that the United States military has become a Christian organization.
“I think it’s utterly and totally wrong. Unconstitutional,” Hall said.
Hall said there is a pattern of discrimination against non-Christians in the military.
Found by Hop.
I forgot to mention that the reason WHY a person cannot be forced to take a vaccine is because of the professional code of ethics that Navy Corpsman and Medics are additionally bound by.
Simply going to the medic / corpsman and saying you’re taking the vaccine against your will was enough to have the corpsman / medic not administer it to you. However, you were told to go and get a vaccine. Catch 22.
I was of the group of people that didn’t want to take it due to all the bad stuff I read about it but I didn’t want to be put in jail over it. So rather than telling the medic I was taking it against my will, I put in a request up my chain of command to document in my personnel record that I was taking the vaccine as ordered, but if I was left to my own free will that I would never take the vaccine.
The request caused a lot of friction between me and my command. My request was denied on the grounds that a personnel record was not the place for that. But in the end, I got what I wanted. My request was returned back to me with the signatures of my chain of command signing off and denying my request that I was basically taking it against my will….. just in case I had medical complications later that I had physical proof.
#31, Guyver,
Your point about a person losing their “Constitutional Rights” was bullshit several posts ago and is still bullshit. A workplace is no place for Constitutional expression. Never has been and never will be. So true, you may not participate in any expression or First Amendment speech while on duty. While on leave though, a person may participate as they wish. The only requirement is that they DO NOT represent themself as a member of the military. The same for when they write a letter to the editor or write a book. If they contact a Congressman or civilian lawyer, they may discuss what they want short of the Official Secrets Act or whatever it is called today.
I have asked you twice to give me a reference that the Government owns your body. The fact is they don’t. There have been Federal Court cases where that has been reiterated over and over. Many superiors will tell you they do, and the idiots believe it, but simply stating it does not make it a fact. Much like most of your comments.
If you refuse a direct order you may be punished. BUT, you may also appeal that punishment to a higher officer. You may also ask for a formal hearing complete with representation for any punishment that involves loss of pay or privilege. Since most officers don’t want to be challenged they will rescind the punishment and transfer the person or subtly still get their pound of flesh. Also, the CO will often deny the appeal but everyone remembers. Including Sargents.
Your comment about forced sex is silly. If that is an unlawful order then what is punishing a person for getting a sunburn? Well gee whiz !!! They are both illegal actions. The simple theory is the Government does not own your body and as such is limited in what they may do. That does not mean the Government can not force you to do many things, they can. They may, as can every employer, forbid you from speaking as an employee, they can enforce a dress code, they can forbid actions, they can forbid wearing certain body adornments, consumption of alcohol and / or drugs, and many other things. They can even have their own court system.
What they can’t do is unlawfully punish a person. They can’t punish a person who broke a leg jumping because they didn’t land right. They can’t punish a person because they allowed a mosquito to give them malaria. They can’t punish a person because they absorbed a cold virus and became too ill to work. And they can’t punish a person because they got more ultra violet exposure than they should have.
In most cases where the Government (read commanders) have overstepped the bounds, they may be challenged. That, however, has its own perils and risks. If you refuse a vaccination (for example) you may resign from the service or take other action. But, you do not need to be vaccinated against your will or better judgment. Since the onus is upon the challenger to prove the order is unlawful, it can get expensive and take a long time. Army pay isn’t enough to challenge most orders.
When the choice is “rock the boat” or go along with “the Army way” then almost everyone will go along with the latter. But again, that does not make it right or legal.
My experience ended over 35 years ago. I did two tours where people actually tried to kill us. The first as a grunt, the second as 2nd Looey. While times have changed, the Army still abounds with idiots. There always has been a need for mindless grunts and I guess there will be for many years to come.
While your career may be fascinating to you, I can see the bullshit still clings.
33, For someone who’s claims to have been in the military you sure are pretty ignorant. I’ll cut to the chase. You’re playing a game of polemics and using idiotic examples and things like “forced sex” which is clearly an unlawful order. I also did not say a person loses their Constitutional Rights (as though you’re implying a person loses all of them). I said that their rights were abridged.
I have to call the BS flag on you since you argued that I was talking my way out of things with the Summary Article 15 explanation when ANYONE
I gave you a break down of which constitutional rights are abridged yet you beg to differ based on your supposed military experience. You also had no idea about Summary Article 15s and claimed I was talking my way out of things. For someone who put such time in the military you sure as hell don’t know much about the UCMJ.
But here’s a few things you can nibble on, while you deal with your ego (not that you actually will) 🙂
http://www.armytimes.com/community/opinion/navy_opinion_editorial070326/
http://usmilitary.about.com/library/polls/blspeech.htm
# 33 Mr. Fusion –
You were a Butter Bar?
Ooops. Sorry for the fragmented post. I hit some key combo and it submitted while I was in mid-type.
Oh well, you get the gist.
One other thing, Officers can resign from service. Enlisted personnel cannot. But you would have known that had you been in the military.
Also someone breaking their leg in the line of duty would not be punishable… but you would have known that had you been in the military.
Getting a sunburn over one’s body is the last time I checked, a completely preventable thing.
Breaking a leg is an accident or some other such thing. Most officers I knew (except for supposedly you) would find it hard to believe that a sunburn was unavoidable. Forced Sex is not an accident and is unlawful.
Again, for someone who claims to be in the military, your comments, oversights, and explanations have way too many holes. You’re basically full of sh1t. But hey, I think that’s been established already since you thought a Summary Article 15 was somehow a spinning of the facts. LOL.
I’ll give you the last word if you want, but everything you keep uttering only reinforces your ignorance.
35 Paddy-O,
He was a “butter bar” that didn’t know what a Summary Article 15 was or what it’s used for.
He was a “butter bar” that somehow establishes forced sex as a moral equivalent to breaking one’s leg or getting a sunburn.
Sorry, I know that I said the previous post would be my last, but I guess I glossed over too much.
Having been in the military, you would also known that there’s no such thing as “off duty” for any active duty military personnel. I junior person cannot tell their CO to F off in public at the local store or on base during “off duty hours”. Not to mention, I already explained to you that I was not talking about military interaction with civilians, but yet you keep bringing that up.
You also did not realize that Purple hair and wearing a shirt with a Marijuana leaf is covered under freedom of expression which is a form of freedom of speech. LOL.
Now on with the sunburn, does every person who gets one ultimately gets a Summary Article 15? Probably not. Depends on if the guy is a dirt bag, if he’s in good graces with the CO, and whether or not it was done during R&R (most likely) or in the line of duty (unlikely).
In the eyes of every commanding officer I’ve served under, there’s no excuse for a sun burn. Sun burns are completely avoidable. Breaking one’s leg happens even if you take precautions. Heck, what if I broke my leg while getting in a car accident and had my seat belt on?
Unlawful Searches & Seizures? All a CO needs is a suspicion that something is going on (i.e. Marijuana leaf on the shirt). If the CO really wants to cover his rear (in case the person in question is a trouble maker) the CO has the entire command take an inventory & inspection of people’s gear (which would reveal personal belongings). Then the trouble maker cannot say he was singled out.
Fraternization if forbidden (but it still occurs). Intimate relationships between officer and enlisted or in cases where there is a senior enlisted and a junior enlisted are fobidden. The catch 22 is when both parties are married and started off in the same rank and one becomes an officer and / or gets promoted faster. I have seen an O-3 be forced to resign due to her sexual relationship with an E-6.
And where do gays and communists stand in all of this? Don’t they have equal protection under the Constitution? LOL. Homosexual conduct in the workplace is a CRIME under the UCMJ.
What about your rights to be a member of an extremist group during off hours? Nope.
Now this shouldn’t be shocking to you since you claim to have been in the military, but the UCMJ can override the Constitution.
http://law.jrank.org/pages/10991/Uniform-Code-Military-Justice.html
14th Paragraph “The UCMJ has been attacked by critics who believe that it severely and unnecessarily restricts First Amendment and other constitutional rights of military personnel.”
2nd/3rd Paragraph “Military law exists separately from civilian law. The rights of individuals serving in the ARMED SERVICES are not as extensive as civilians rights because the military is regulated by the overriding demands of discipline and duty. Recognizing this need for a separate body of regulations to govern the military, Article I, Section 8, Clause 14, of the Constitution empowers Congress “to make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces.” Until the enactment of the UCMJ, the Army and Navy each had its own system of military justice, known as the Articles of War in the Army and the Articles for the Government of the Navy. The UCMJ ensures that any accused member of the armed services will be subject to the same substantive charges and procedural rules and that he or she will be guaranteed identical procedural safeguards.”
But having been in military you already knew all of this and didn’t need to be reminded. LOL. 🙂
# 38 – Slow down. He’s still Googling “butter bar”.
LOL
39,
I should write my responses in MS Word or something. I don’t realize how long the responses actually are until I hit the submit button. 🙂
Hard to say if he’ll respond at this point after that last post with the two quotes. I’m hoping he’s not going to dig too deep in his supposed military career to challenge the above two quotes. 🙂
But you never know. He may still cling to some rationale or insist that I never proved something even though what I’ve explained does take place.