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Bobbo, I’m afraid that you’ve been vanquished by Awake.
Time for YOU to wake up, m’hijito. You’re already in the hole. Stop digging.
#30–Awake==what kind of wild-eyed lunatic are you?
You say: “Personally, I would rather ignore the illegal immigration problem outright, and take on the officially sanctioned policies destroying the American middle class, such as the mass export of skilled jobs by outsourcing and encouragement of factory relocation.”
So, you think the only economically relevant analysis of the impact of illegal workers is the taxes they pay vs the benefits they received?? Not so my near sighted one-worlder. From your post again: ““Non-citizens, for their part, contributed $28.9 billion, or eight percent of Arizona’s economic output, resulting in 278,000 full-time equivalent jobs.”===Jobs Americans did not get.
You must think there are jobs Americans will not do?–as in work for slave wages without benefits? That is taken care of by “the free market system.” If Americans won’t do a job, American Employers are supposed to pay more in order to GET PEOPLE TO WORK. Course, if you can import slave labor–problem solved.
If you have the intellectual honesty to address the issue, please resolve this conflict, and your own thinking on the issue.
#31–Mustard==on what point specifically? And before you answer, take off those mustard flecked glasses. They obvious obscure the main point here?
Mustard–is illegal immigration good or bad for any country.
For the USA?
You know, another form of illegal immigration is WAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If illegal immigration was a good thing, why didn’t we invite the japs in after Pearl Harbor?
Same core issue, different quibbles.
#33 – Bobbolina
>>is illegal immigration good or bad for
>>any country. For the USA?
In this case (USA), I’d say it’s either a zero-sum game, or maybe a slight benefit to the USA.
Most of the “outrage” over illegal immigrants seems to stem from xenophobia, bigotry, and hatemongering.
>>If illegal immigration was a good thing, why
>>didn’t we invite the japs in after Pearl
>>Harbor?
“Japs”? Christ, where is “J” when you need him?
Last I heard, none of the countries providing the illegal immigrants has declared war on us. Totally different issue.
And yes, there are jobs Americans won’t do. Sure, we could pay them $35/hr with full benefits to pick fruit and vegetables. But then your Cobb salad would cost $125.
You’re oversimplifying things, m’hijto. The basic truth here is that the whole illegal immigrant brouhaha is largely based on bigotry.
#34–Mustard==you have me completely. Have to be totally bigoted to care if the social fabric of your own country is ass-wiped if it results in people from other countries being benefited.
And, indeed, if all the illegals were blue-eyed blond Swedish female volley ball players, I wouldn’t have anything negative to say except for the one man-one wife rule.
Keep those race cards flowing Mr Mustard, we can work up to a full deck.
#35 – Bobbo
>>Mustard==you have me completely.
I know it, Bobbo. That’s why I told you to stop digging.
And not a good idea to bring up, in an unsolicited fashion, your other bigotry-based opinions.
Between the illegal immigrants issue and the same-sex marriage, you’d probably be a shoe-in as an intern for Rush Limbaugh.
The issue is not that illegals are using our healthcare system.
It is the fact that they are illegal.
If we had the same quota system and overly harsh criteria to be legal when most of our ancestors came between 1800 and 1920 the US would have half its current population.
These people could be LEGAL IF we changed the laws regarding immigration. BUT then we would be bitching about LEGAL immigrants chewing up healthcare.
So we are damned if we do and damned if we don’t.
If we don’t want illegals in the hospital then change the laws to make it easier to be legal like our forebearers had and fine the companies & individuals that hire illegals.
Cursor_
I live in San Diego and all hospitals within 20 miles of the border, except for one (being run at a loss for charitable reasons), have closed for financial reasons because of the numbers of illegal uninsureds. It’s really too bad that San Diego County’s poorest (on Medicare, Medicaid, SS, etc) cannot have reasonably close resources. No-one even tries anymore, as they know they will be overwhelmed by non-paying illegal aliens.
#36–Mustard==can you imagine two illegal mexican immigrants of the male persuation getting married in California and going on Welfare demanding the right to have in vitro fertilized eggs developed for their specific adoption?
You are bigoted if you don’t support this wonderful child oriented desire. (I know I am!)
#39 – Bobbo
Yet again, you bring in the “all illegal immigrants are on welfare” nonsense. Most come here to work. And to work at jobs you won’t do.
The rest of your post falls into the “gibberish” category.
#40–Mustard==how does hypothecating ONE example equate to a statement about ALL!
Unlike yourself, I do think I understand how you think and communicate as reflected in your postings.
Can you do better?
Maybe we should make being an illegal alien, illegal!!
#3 – Ah-yea
>>I know for a fact that if an American with no
>>money went to the emergency room of a Mexican
>>hospital, that the American would be thrown
>>out the door, even if it meant they would die
>>on the doorstep.
Well, you just so happen to be full of shit. The Mexican government pays the hospital bills of uninsured aliens, legal or illegal.
That’s the reason they won’t pay for hospitalized illegal aliens in the US if they’re deported back to Mexico.
Christ. We’re not even keeping up with third-world countries when it comes to medical care.
MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.
>>Maybe we should make being an illegal
>>alien, illegal!!
Yeah, it’s worked out pretty well so far, huh?
#34 Mister Mustard
“Most of the “outrage” over illegal immigrants seems to stem from xenophobia, bigotry, and hatemongering.”
Too your liberal sensibilities it may appear the problem stems from these codewords for the leftest agenda, but you could not be farther from the truth.
History proves that if immigrants aren’t forced to assimilate into the host culture then in time the host will no longer have a culture.
So to call people names because they want to protect their country and culture is short-sighted and proves you have no clue about what you are inferring.
#45–Dr Dodd==you and I contesting against Mustard shows I think Mustard as taken a good idea (good will towards all our fellow men) and then stripped it of all reality based considerations. Almost like he was a child of the universe/of god, rather than a rational person.
Religion makes idiots of those who drink the wrong flavor koolaid. Don’t know really which one is untainted, sounds like I’m actually describing the benefits of pure, clean, water.
>>Religion makes idiots of those who drink
>>the wrong flavor koolaid.
BINGO!! Dvorak’s Law rules again!!
We’re talking about illegal aliens and medical care, and you bring up the Religion Card.
Everybody’s got to serve somebody, Bobbo, and it’s clear that you’re serving Dvorak’s Law.
#45 – Mr. Dodd
>>History proves that if immigrants aren’t
>>forced to assimilate into the host culture
>>then in time the host will no longer have a
>>culture.
You couldn’t be more wrong, Dodd. I’ve never typed a single word in favor of non-assimilation.
That’s an entirely different topic.
btw, “inferring” is not the same as “implying”. Look them up.
The cold, hard fact remains: Most of the outrage over beaners coming into the US stems from xenophobia, bigotry, and hatemongering.
Deal with it.
#47–Mustard==how else would you explain your constant extreme positioning of people who disagree with you?
You haven’t addressed what I have said, you have mischaracterized what I did say, all to picture people with different views as completely intolerant people.
You may have the equation right, just look in the mirror.
once again, bobbo, you have talked me to death. i can’t tell if you’re trolling again or are just dense. either way, you’ve talked me to death.
#48 Mister Mustard
“You couldn’t be more wrong, Dodd. I’ve never typed a single word in favor of non-assimilation.”
You don’t have to when you openly champion the invasion.
You are excessively free with everyone else’s resources. Perhaps you should take in a family or two of illegals at your home.
After a short period of being taken advantage of I feel comfortably certain you will reconsider your position.
>>You don’t have to when you openly champion
>>the invasion.
What about the invasion of the Irish? The Jews? The Germans? The Poles? The Italians?
Did that lead to the end of civilization as we know it?
Yet the xenophobes and hatemongers blew their stacks when those furriners came over.
Get over it.
And the resources that I am “excessively free with” include my own.
#52 Mister Mustard
“What about the invasion of the Irish? The Jews? The Germans? The Poles? The Italians?”
As you so conveniently omit is that this “invasion” wasn’t sponsored by the US taxpayers.
The only thing these immigrants could rely on as they stepped upon Ellis Island was family or their own devices. Unlike now, the people of this country were not forced to support these earlier immigrants.
#52 – Mr Dodd
>>As you so conveniently omit is that this >>“invasion” wasn’t sponsored by the US
>>taxpayers.
Nothing conveniently forgotten there, Doddie. If anything, the “illegal invaders” are having a net positive effect on the economy.
Sure, there’s the occasional beaner who incurs a “$1.5 million charge” (in stupidly overstate phony money “ho$pital dollar$”, of course, not that anyone would ever actually pay that amount; and certainly not any insurance company). But for every one of them, there are hundreds of thousands who go to their backbreaking jobs every day, pay taxes, pay social security, and support the economy.
So get off your hatemongering hobby horse.
“If anything, the “illegal invaders” are having a net positive effect on the economy.”
Then by all means we should advertise for more. Come one come all to the land of the chumps.
Work hard, earn money then send it back to your home country. Don’t bother investing here because soon by the force of numbers you can just take what they have already built.
Your plan is glorious Mustard! My only question is where do you plan on living when your time comes? A stranger in your own land… that sounds like proper payment for such open-mindedness.
#58 – Dr. “Chicken Little” Dodd
Not to worry. The presence of bigots and hatemongers such as yourself will keep the beaner “invasion” from reaching the sky-is-falling proportions that you suggest.
See, even a promulgator of hatred like you plays a role in today’s society.
You should revel in your misery!
Dodd & pedro
As usual you all to well prove your ignorance and complete lack of understanding.
Mr. Mustard
I’m with ya!
boboo
Awake is right. I have paid to have this type of research collected for my charitable positions. There is more than enough info available on the intertubes for you to spend 5 or 10 minutes and realize the reality of the situation. All those saying it is hurting our country financially has a political agenda.
However, there is a case to be made about the affects on culture and the ability to sustain the population growth. That argument is too complicated for people who just need an easy excuse to be defensive, money, and an easy target for their hatred, foreigners. Any argument beyond that is too much for their little brains to understand.
#58 Mister Mustard
I expected more from you than to retreat to the old leftest playbook of bigot, hatemonger, hater, racist… what a disappointment.
Sorry, but the white guilt card doesn’t work here or have the power you believe. I guess from now on you must rely on facts instead of programming.
#60–J==gee with all those sources available, why doesn’t one get posted?
Its a big subject with lots of interactive variables. Maybe not as complicated as Global Warming–but approaching it.
Its totally inconsistent to be against job outsourcing and yet think it “adds to the economy” to have an illegal alien take a job. I have seen studies referring to the depression of wages in hospitality and construction industry because of cheap illegal workers.
I believe there are articles that will provide some good stats on a “sector” of the issue that shows a supposed beneficial effect==but whats good? American’s losing jobs to illegals? When the very basis of formula is mischaracterized to begin with, what good analysis flows thereafter?
Still==every country prohibits unlimited immigration because it damages the culture and the economy, except for the USA who’s leaders think it is a good idea.
So, love to see a good article less than 5 years old that really comes to grips with all the elements? Without any such cites, I’m still open to understanding how I’m wrong that when an illegal takes a job, an American is hurt. Job vacancies force wage increases. Its called the free market place?
# 62 bobbo
“gee with all those sources available, why doesn’t one get posted?”
Because all of mine are in traditional paper form. They are collected works that require time and analysis. You know like charts and graphs that are independent studies. For god sake do you want every piece of information spoon-feed to you?
“Its totally inconsistent to be against job outsourcing and yet think it “adds to the economy” to have an illegal alien take a job.”
No it is not. The tax revenue created by outsourcing jobs doesn’t go into the U.S. kitty. I don’t like or approve of illegal employment but I do realize it is a large factor in our economy and requires careful thought and execution to untangle it.
“but whats good? American’s losing jobs to illegals? ”
That is such a bullshit argument. If all the illegal’s were gone and all those jobs were taken by Americans the cost of living would exponentially go up therefore resulting in same economic woes for those same Americans as not having a job in the first place. Not to mention many of the jobs that these illegal take are the lowest of the low wage that Americans refuse to work without huge pay increases which would effectively put those companies out of business or result in unaffordable cost for products.
“Still==every country prohibits unlimited immigration because it damages the culture and the economy, except for the USA who’s leaders think it is a good idea.”
I agree it is not a good idea but that doesn’t change the fact that our economy is now dependant on it and to undo it is going to require more than just “throwing all the foreigners out!”
“So, love to see a good article less than 5 years old that really comes to grips with all the elements?”
Yeah typical lazy American. Wants everything assembled and packaged for them. At the same time wants it as cheap as possible. In your case FREE. Perhaps if your attitude, and many others, was “I can do it myself” we wouldn’t have an illegal problem in the first place.
Hey maybe you can hire some illegals to gather all that info for you. I hear they will do it real cheap too. Or you could do it yourself and stop being a hypocrite. YES YOU ARE! You don’t want to do your work yourself because your time is too important but you want someone to do it for you for FREE! Why do you think we have an illegal problem in the US?????????????