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When Bangor-area doctors told Hill’s family that the Vietnam veteran, who had seven brain tumors, two lung tumors and liver cancer, would not survive a return drive to Florida, they bought two plane tickets aboard Allegiant Air. The nonstop flight departed at 12:30 p.m. Saturday from Bangor International Airport and landed just before 4 p.m. at Orlando Sanford International Airport.
But when the jet landed in Florida, Hill and his wife were not on board. Allegiant refused to fly Hill home. “The pilot said he would not allow him to fly on the plane, and the reason he gave — if the plane crashed, nobody would be able to help him,” said Richard Brackett, Hill’s brother.Brackett said his brother used a wheelchair, but did not require an oxygen tank or an IV drip. Hill may have been a little sedated when he boarded, Brackett said, because a nurse at St. Joseph Hospital in Bangor suggested he take an anti-anxiety pill and pain medication before the flight.
“I have no earthly idea” why they wouldn’t let him on, Brackett said. In a follow-up e-mail, Allegiant said the company could not allow Hill to fly because he did not have medical assistance. Brackett contends that his brother did not need aid. Hill’s wife was traveling with him, and hospice care was scheduled to begin once he arrived in Florida. Instead, Hill missed his chance at hospice care and was taken to the Winter Haven Hospital’s emergency room late Sunday night. The nonstop drive from Maine to Florida was taxing on his tired body, said Brackett.
Hill died at the hospital early Tuesday morning.
He never made it back to his home on the water.
Couldn’t they have just had him sign a waiver?
#25–Bubba==wow! I took a $25 intro ride in a Stearman==looked just like yours only it was British Racing Green. Even went upside down. Wasn’t till years later in (Viva Zappata? the movie==that funny bit of the bandito being dumped out of the plane by going inverted?)
#30–James Hill==longest post I have seen you make. Too bad its like a big piece of plastic. Dig into the center and its the same as the surface.
#31–Catshit & most others attacking this decision===just keep in mind that “other” people have the same rights, desires, and aspirations as you do. Add that in to these little scenarios where you imagine yourself to be the protagonist==then stop making yourself the center of the universe.
If you want to quibble about the effective difference between being unconscious and sedated==I’ll give it to you. If you want to think an Airline wouldn’t and shouldn’t be sued while a passenger suffers ill health and dies while you could have landed and saved him==then you are living in lala land==the center of the universe changes, but the problem is the same.==self centered immature egotists wanting the universe to provide as they wish. Little god complexes.
I’d say “grow up” but those formative years have been lost. So–“go back, regroup, get reasonable.”
http://tinyurl.com/5ruzxz
I saw this on the wires today. Another example of a difficult situation on an airline. In this case, WestJet says “”We’re trying everything we can to find a solution to bring her home…”.
Again, the point that Catshit, BubbaRay, James Hill and I have been making is these guys screwed. If they didn’t want this guy to fly, don’t dump him on the sidewalk. Customer management is about “following the rules”, sure. It’s also about doing the right thing to win and keep customers.
#33–QB==what are you saying? What is the airline supposed to do after they determined the guy was too sick to fly? I’d say a coffee, some nuts, and directions to the nearest public phone is about it.
The spastic quad should not be allowed on the flight either unless she can be secured in some manner so as not to become a “human projectile” in the worst case. What are they supposed to do after refusing to ticket her?
Sure looks to me that you and the handicapped gang have slopped over from non-discrimination/treat everyone the same into the special rights that put everyone else at risk special privileges camp.
Everybody deserved to be treated with dignity and respect. That doesn’t mean everybody has a right to everything.
Any business that tries to cater to everybody will fail. A business in the real world will work within real world limits–beyond that the subject is proper for government welfare.
I am reminded of an outdoors camping store in my neighborhood. Small mom and pop store specializing in lightweight back packing stuff. They went out of business when required to put in a handicapped ramp to the front of their store. Who won what?
Bobbo, “What is the airline supposed to do after they determined the guy was too sick to fly? I’d say a coffee, some nuts, and directions to the nearest public phone is about it.”
Once again, the point is that is a crappy business model in the service industry. For some reason which I can’t fathom you’ve turned this discussion into a debate on political and social rights.
I’m simply saying, if this airline wants to stay in business, they are going to have to get way better at working with their customers. Great service and reputation carry airlines through tough periods and let them grow fast during the good times.
Nothing to do with rights. You want to pound the pulpit about that, be my guest. Or actually this airlines’ guest.
#35–QB==good morning. I’m going to bed soon, but will check the thread, although, maybe we can agree in a post or two?
I recognized your point about “best business practices” to compete in the industry argument, but didn’t think that was your sole issue?
So, focusing on THAT==you are still wrong, in my estimation. I take that position as you do simply from a business competition model.
Near Dead People and Spastic Quads are “outliers.” What the airlines do for them doesn’t mean diddly-squat because their numbers and therefore their market impact are nil.
What makes an airline competitive:
1. Price
2. Routes
3. Timeliness
4. Safety
5. Leg Room
6. Free Drinks
7. Good Movies
8. Attractive Hostitutes
9. Ease of Ticketing Procedures
10—Free Membership in Mile High Club.
I don’t see catering to any outliers on the list.
Further, you seem to think that only good can come from servicing these particular passengers. Try to imagine the bad will engendered by delays/diversions caused by medical emergencies. You get home a day late and you tell your wife: “I was so lucky on my flight. We got to give a dying wish to a near dead patient and son of a gun, he did die and we had to land immediately. I sure hope that happens again because it gives me a warm feeling to know that one person got what they self centeredly wanted and I and the other 120 passengers were proud and happy to sacrifice our schedules for his last wish.”
My sarcasm aside, don’t you think the highest level your position can reach is that the decision by the airline has potential for both good and bad competitive advantage, and regardless of what you would want, the airline did indeed make that decision? They will reap the consequences and the market will speak.—note my Top Ten list. Nobody cares about how any unique small group of people are treated.
I recall one flight were a volley ball team was all upset they could not all sit together. Fuck em.
#36, bobbo,
Fuck em.
You’re a fucking asshole. YOU make a list and then expect all the world to have faith in your list.
First lesson in marketing. Give people a reason to buy your product. Lesson two. Give people a reason to buy your product again. Lesson three. Repeat lesson one and two. Everything else is only a way to get there.
bobbo, find some AA group in your neighborhood.
#37–Hey Catshit===whatsamaddayou?
You say: “Give people a reason to buy your product.” I gave 10–thats TEN reasons real people would prefer an airline.
How near dead people, spastic quad, volleyball teams, or catshit is treated impresses absolutely NOBODY!==Not even those 1-2-3 people you want to disadvantage 1–2–300 people for.
Mass marketing has “mass” in it for a reason. Same as mass appeal?
Now, go clean your box, I think its full. And yes, enjoy another beer as I reflect on the most excellent Fireworks Show I saw tonight.
Happy Forth until Next Year.
Actually airlines compete on a few items. Based on my experience working with a few of them:
* Labour costs
* Fuel costs
* Route efficiency (read load factors)
* Repeat customers (loyalty)
* Maintenance costs
That’s about it. Load factors and repeat customers are linked, but outside of stuff that people don’t see (fuel costs, maintenance inventory, etc) there isn’t much that airlines control.
Price is based operating costs and route overhead. At the end of the day the majority of customers don’t buy on this alone (yes bobbo, we all know you’re special). In fact people tend to to fly with same airline they used last time.
Most airlines succeed on customer loyalty. This can be done through marketing/lifestyle (Virgin), route (Alaska, Hawaii), low cost (JetBlue, Southwest), or service (Thai, Singapore, WestJet). Some do more than one and good for them. The airlines that win get repeat customers who fly 3-4 or more per year. Business travellers are one segment, fun and recreational travellers are the other.
Busting their nut (as the good guys do) wins them tons of customers in the long run – especially repeat business. Service oriented airlines are currently growing now while the majority are declining. Allegiant is competing on route right now – they are about to get pressure. It will be interesting to see if they can adapt.
Hello,
I have read most of your comments…I am one of Mr. Hill’s brother’s. I think you’ve missed the point. I explained to the reservation lady my brother’s condition. I was told the airlines had trained personnel on board to “lift” my brother into his seat. When we checked in for the flight, even the person at the counter came to him, shook his hand and said “Mr. Hill, we WILL take good care of you today”. Now, here was a second chance to say that my brother couldn’t fly with their airlines. Yes, my brother was given a pain pill and a MILD anti anxiety pill. He was in NO danger of dying during that flight. He would have just slept until he landed in Orland/Sanford airport. He needed NO medical assistance. His wife was completely able to take care of him. At this point it was “COMFORT” that the Doctor felt would be in his best interest. The van, although equipped for a disabled person, would create a very long 38 hour drive. We (the family) feel that due to the “Long” drive shortened the days. He DID get home and into his own bed but the next morning had to be taken to the hospital for pain management. I’m afraid it wasn’t a mistaken statement from the pilot….he sent out the co-pilot to explain that if the plane crashed it would be impossible to get my brother off, therefore, take him off the plane. EXCUSE ME, HOW MANY CRASHES WOULD THIS BE A PROBLEM. WHAT ABOUT THE OTHER CUSTOMERS WHO MIGHT DIE, WOULD THAT BE ANY DIFFERENT….THAT IS “GETTING THEM OFF OF THE PLANE”? I’m tired of reading all of this crap….the bottom line is, he was given a ticket like all of the other “paying customers” and should have had his seat….by the way, it was up front on the two seat side, just my brother and his wife who would have been on the isle seat….and to anyone walking by to the bathroom would have thought he was sleeping just like any of the other flying people. HE WOULDN’T HAVE BEEN A PROBLEM FOR ANYONE. I hope you that have complained don’t have to be faced with a situation such as this…..what about my 17 year old grandson who has Spina Biffida…he can’t walk either….should he be kept off of the plane, or what about a blind person who couldn’t see what way to go should there be a crash…..where would this end. My family and I will do all that we can to make sure there is a revision of the Handicap Flying Regulations so this can never happen again ON ANY FLIGHT. Oh, I did try to get med-flights to take him, but they were LIMITED to 1,000 miles…we were nearly 1,700 miles from home. I checked into every outlet that I could possibly find, no luck. This was my brother’s last wish to get back home, and we got him home, but with MUCH PAIN AND SUFFERING, WHICH HE WOULDN’T HAVE HAD ON THE PLANE. If his doctor in Florida felt he could make the trip and his doctor in Maine felt he could make the flight home (but not the drive) who was MED-LINK to say any different. THEY DID NOT HAVE HIS MEDICAL RECORD, NOR DID THEY TAKE TIME TO COME TO GIVE HIM A PHYSICAL, SO WHAT WAS THEIR DECISION BASED ON…..JUST HOW COULD THEY COME TO THAT CONCLUSION. I SAY, IT WAS VERY CONVENIENT FOR THE PILOT. BEFORE YOU MAKE SOME OF THOSE STATEMENTS YOU ALL SHOULD KNOW MORE ABOUT THE FACTS!!!!!!!
HIS BROTHER
#40–rbracketts==glad your brother made it home. Its difficult to discuss an issue when people have access to/assume different facts. More difficult when different sides to an issue are subjected to different pressures, different realities.
I’d be curious as to how legislation could be written to achieve just results.
Scenario One–Highly medicated patient taken on board and becomes unconscious during the flight. Under your regulations, should the airline continue to destination and be free from any civil liability for the death of that patient, or should it be required to divert and land at the nearest airport with medical facilities to respond to the unconscious patient?
In either case, should an airline be allowed to decline such passengers for the overall travel experience of the others on board?
You’ve got some tough drafting to do even if everyone agreed on the facts.
Hi Bobo,
Thanks for your thoughts. I’m not sure just how we can make the change but will try to do something. What happened to my dear brother should never, never happen to another person.
I must say again, my brother “wasn’t” over medicated. He had a pain pill (one) and (one) mild anti anxiety pill. It was one of mine, given to me by the VA….of course it was a generic, and not very strong at that. I’ve taken one or two along with my pain med and never even noticed it, so haven’t bothered with them since.
However, my brother was having increased pain from the cancer in the chest and was having difficulty sitting up for long periods of time. This is why we gave him what we did…..however, that was FAR from being “Over medicated).
He wouldn’t have had any problem at all on the plane. He would have slept probably all the way to Sanford where the plane landed. However, that turn of events made his last days severe in pain and agony.
Being his siblings we knew that it would have been so much better for him to stay in Maine, but that’s NOT what he wanted…..and his wife was just as determined to get him home as he requested. There was nothing wrong with his mind. He was fully aware of everything he was saying and wanting to do….getting home being the most important at that time. We all feel days were taken away from him due to the extreme stress involved in his return trip to his home….by the way, was in Lake Wales, not Lakeland…..and HE DID get to his home, even if it was for a few hours, but he did get home.
I love it when things get taken out of context.
I appreciate the fact that we ALL have the right to our own OPINIONS, we just need to know all of the FACTS before we make them.
Thanks
Richard (Dennis’ brother)
rbracketts, I am sorry for your loss, and am sorry that your brother did not get to enjoy his last days in Florida.
I do have to say though, the agents that book and the agents that check you in at airports are not the decision makers as far as denying boarding. This decision is ALWAYS left up to the Captain, so there is no way anyone could have denied before getting up to the gate. The agents simply lack the resources and knowledge that the Captain would about the effects of flight and resources such as Medlink. The Captain is no doctor, so relying on such a source is the most reasonable solution. I don’t think a lack of help in an emergency was the only reason, but that a diversion or death would definitely impacted the other 150-ish passengers on this flight. I know there is no way to know whether he would have survived the flight or not, and that is why this would be such a tough decision for any Captain to make. If someone passes away on a flight, how does a parent explain that to their child that sits there and sees this happen? We can’t be sure that it would be a silent, easy passing.