 |
The Potential for Danger in Particle Collider Experiments | The News is NowPublic.com — Ok, let me summarize. With no real math or proof or anything much more than sketchy guesses and the application of the ubiquitous “better be safe than sorry” rule, some folks predict the end of times because of the Hadron Collider at CERN.
Here’s what they predict. When this thing cranks up it will accidentally produce one mini-black hole (MBH) per minute. These will quickly gravitate directly to the earth’s core where they will join up to form a bigger black hole that will suck the entire earth into itself. Since a real black hole is a phenomenon stemming from the collapse of massive stars with hard-to-fathom cosmic forces it would be amazing to duplicate the process with a machine in Switzerland. Meanwhile, all of mankind cannot find a cure for the common cold. OK, right.
The CERN study [Ref. 1] is a remake of a similar study for the earlier Relativistic Heavy Ion Collider at Brookhaven (RHIC) [Ref. 6] adapted to the LHC.
It is important to notice that: The study for the RHIC had concluded that no black holes will be created. For the LHC the conclusion is very different: “Black holes could be created!” !
The main danger could be now just behind our door with the possible death in blood of 6.500.000.000 (US notation 6,500,000,000) people and complete destruction of our beautiful planet. Such a danger shows the need of a far larger study before any experiment ! The CERN study presents risk as a choice between a 100% risk or a 0% risk. This is not a good evaluation of a risk percentage!
If we add all the risks for the LHC we could estimate an overall risk between 11% and 25%!.
We are far from the Adrian Kent’s admonition that global risks that should not exceed 0.000001% a year to have a chance to be acceptable. [Ref. 3] .Even testing the LHC could be dangerous. Even an increase in the luminosity of the RHIC could be dangerous! It would be wise to consider that the more powerful the accelerator will be, the more unpredicted and dangerous the events that may occur! We cannot build accelerators always more powerful with interactions different from natural interactions, without risk. This is not a scientific problem. This is a wisdom problem!
Our desire of knowledge is important but our desire of wisdom is more important and must take precedence. The precautionary principle indicates not to experiment. The politicians must understand this evidence and stop these experiments before it is too late!
As an aside I have to show this brain-dead video about the collider done by the Times. You could take this footage and overlay just about any commentary you wanted since it looks to be a dopey series of stock footage from this and that. There are guys writing formulas on a blackboard. People are pointing. Buildings are shown. A guy is walking. It’s laughable. The British voice-over makes it even more ludicrous. All that is missing is a train going into a tunnel.
Found by Mad Dog Mike.
Black holes require a lot of mass.
So, um, where is this mass going to come from?
A mini-blackhole is an oxymoron.
The guy who came up with the idea is just a regular moron.
Not unless it can pee gasoline.
Black holes the size of a proton evaporate in nanoseconds.
According to the Hawking equations, a 1 second-lived black hole has a mass of 2.28 × 10^5 kg, equivalent to an energy of 2.05 × 10^22 J that could be released by 5 × 10^6 megatons of TNT. The initial power is 6.84 × 10^21 W. That’s enough to drive 565,000 gigacars from “Back to The Future.”
The collider has the potential to create a mass less than a few protons in multiple runs.
I think we’re safe. Here’s a good report from MSNBC.
“Nature has already generated on Earth as many collisions as about a million LHC experiments – and the planet still exists,” CERN said in its lay-language summary of the report.
Your real concern should be why the US isn’t leading the way in pioneering scientific research anymore. It seems the US has already been sucked into a black hole.
coz 2 times in a row population has decided USA should be world police
This thing can’t do anything that cosmic particles haven’t been doing every second of every day since the beginning of time.
Why do crackpots get more air-time than scientists?
#3 – Jim
>>It seems the US has already been sucked into
>>a black hole.
Well, what do you expect? We’ve had a guy “running” the show for the last 8 years who hasn’t been able to figure out how to pronounce “nuclear” in 61 years.
If he can’t master that, how much support for science can you expect him to provide?
John, you make it abundantly clear that you watched ZERO seconds of the video you posted. There is no criticism of the LHC whatsoever in it.
#6, Shift.wav,
I also found the video to be a fine layman’s summary of what the LHC was built to do — prove the existance of the Higgs Boson thereby providing more proof of the ‘standard model’ theory.
Don’t get angry just because John is not a physicist. The video was somewhat “overdone,” not well organized, but it was pretty cool seeing Higgs himself.
#7, Mr. Mustard, you have some friendly messages over on Cage Match, starting here:
http://tinyurl.com/3f58zb
Mini-black holes, and I don’t care
Mini-black holes, and I don’t care
Mini-black holes, and I don’t care
My Earth has gone away.
As it has been pointed out, micro black holes should evaporate almost instantly. However, it isn’t good form to insult those who have fears, it is best to explain the situation to them.
There is a legitimate concern, however microscopic the danger. We do not know enough about quantum physics and the behavior of the foam to say with six-sigma certainty that a hole cannot form, and that any micro holes that do will be harmless and evaporate. What if it manages to encounter some odd (implausible but possible) quirk that causes us real problems?
I have no fears, but to say, “you’re stupid” is not a way to reassure someone you know what you are doing.
In the world of particle physics, an insignificant percentage of risk can suddenly turn into a huge enigma of results. I am not saying that those concerned are right, I am only saying that considering the ramifications resulting from any mistakes in our math, addressing concerns of the populace is not a stupid thing to do.
I thought the world would end when the 3 Stooges knocked their heads together.
There’s nothing to this. As many before me have said… it’s a very small collision.
#6 – Shift.wav,
#8 – BubbaRay
What do you expect from a person who sees an illegal Mexican immigrant behind every bush? 😉
“Black hole sun
Won’t you come
And wash away the rain
Black hole sun
Won’t you come
Won’t you come”
“Hang my head
Drown my fear
Till you all just
Disappear…”
#14 – Ah_Yea
The anthem for anti-hadron collider movement… 😀
Didn’t people believe hydrogen bombs could ignite the hydrogen in the atmosphere causing a chain reaction destroying the earth?
BubbRay writes “Black holes the size of a proton evaporate in nanoseconds.”
Except according to the published paper that is a disputed conjecture lacking compelling scientific support:
* Dr. Adam D. Helfer: Do black holes radiate? “no compelling theoretical case for or against radiation by black holesj”
* Dr. William G. Unruh and Prof. Ralf Schützhold: On the Universality of the Hawking Effect “Therefore, whether real black holes emit Hawking radiation or not remains an open question”
* Prof. V.A. Belinski: On the existence of quantum evaporation of a black hole “quote” “the effect [Hawking Radiation] does not exist.”
Links to these papers are available at LHCFacts.org
Is that the voice from “Look Around You?”
brucemlloyd writes “Science is a religion that the United States of America doesn’t understand.”
Actually the computers and superconducting magnets are largely American technology, this is not about a technology gap. It is about taking warnings of possible danger seriously, as has been done by creation of the new safety report. Now is the time for the world’s scientists to have the opportunity to validate the report.
A possible short delay in Large Hadron Collider operations is a small price to pay.
Thanks, Jägermeister!
At least we won’t have to worry about Global Warming…
#20 – Ah_Yea – At least we won’t have to worry about Global Warming…
No planet, no problems…
Certain days I wouldn’t feel so bad if everybody and everything were sucked into a black hole. Let’s hope any mini black hole generated doesn’t respond to my or other folks’ momentary feelings.
A good demonstration of things we could do on Mars or in space somewhere. If we want to find new ways of harnessing energy then we need to do experiments like this somehow.
I have only one thing left to say about the complete BS. Shut up. It’s over. It never began! There has NEVER been any risk, and this crap has been going on for almost a year now. END IT ALREADY!
If the earth succumbs to a man-made black hole, then all you nay-sayers will be considered extremely dense.
#25,
It would make saying, “Wewere warned!” really hard.
Trying to recreate big bang conditions and similar goals doesn’t strike me as a good idea.
# 9 brucemlloyd said: Science is a religion that the United States of America doesn’t understand.
Sorry, but much of the technology behind the collider in Cern is of US design. In fact, we started building a similar – though larger, more powerful – collider about the same time. In Texas, remember? It was budgeted for something like 4 billion bucks but – as new technology and government contracts do – it was going over budget. I think projections were 12 billion when it was canceled, they’d dug 15 miles of tunnels.
Mr Mustard – You can blame Bush (and his difficulty with the nuclear word) all you want but this project was canceled under the the stewardship of your friend Billy Clinton.
I think the US simply doesn’t have much of a taste for pure research, anymore.
By the way, the CERN facility will be shared by 80 nations and the biggest chunk of that shared research goes to: the US of A. SO, if a black hole does devour our planet, it will largely be due to us. All things considered, it’s not a bad way to go. Better than Revelations.
If the earth is sucked into a black hole, does that cancel out, or does it exacerbate, global warming? Should the creation of mini-black holes be regulated and taxed, or should market forces prevail? Perhaps we should pass a constitutional amendment to forbid the creation of mini-black holes, just in case they are an abomination.
I await guidance from our greatest source of wisdom, the politicians.
good riddance to the 2 legged rat.
#29 – cancel out, taxed (of course)