GLADSTONE, Oregon: A 16-year-old boy who, along with his parents, believed in faith healing has died as a result of an inflammation in his urinary system that is treatable.
The boy, identified by authorities as Neil Beagley, was suffering from an inflammation in a tube leading from his bladder – the urethra – that made him unable to urinate, according to Dr. Clifford Nelson, a deputy state medical examiner.
Beagley filled up with urine, and that eventually ruined his bladder and kidneys and resulted in heart failure, said Nelson, who called it “an absolutely horrible way to die.”
Police said relatives and church members told them the teenager refused treatment for the illness, as he was entitled to do under Oregon law. State law allows minors 14 and older to make such decisions.
Ain’t nothing like being One of the Chosen.
Thanks, K B
Noel said: “There is a positive correlation between atheism and intelligence.”
There is also a high positive correlation between height and intelligence. I’m a recovering statistician but I still remember that correlation does not imply causality. Weak argument, I think you can do better.
#31-bobbo,
I was only telling Mister Mustard where I got my information about atheism. It seems to me that if someone requests information it is their responsibility to look it up when someone tells them where to find it. I wish you wouldn’t make a habit of getting all worked up all the time.
I will indulge you, just this once:
http://tinyurl.com/56jpc9
Mister Mustard,
I might not agree with you about religion, but you are certainly more cool minded and polite than a certain Robert who neglects to capitalize his name. I hope you were not overly offended by my apparent gaffe.
#33–QG==my reading of Noel’s posts is that he is raising and resting on the issue of correlation. Causation is not referenced or implied by his post.
Only intelligent readers will see the causation by our own inference. Mustard will continue to reject it for the correlative reason.
#29 Mista Bobbolina
>>who else but people of faith give their hard
>>earned money to other people in order to be
>>raptured during the end times?
Who else but Atheists exterminates entire groups of people because the believe in God?
I don’t give my money in order to be raptured, you don’t exterminate people who believe in God, so why don’t we just drop this silly over-generalizing charade?
If you really think that all people of faith (or even all Christians), are the same, you’re dumber than I thought.
#34–Noel==I, and everyone else reading this blog, thank you for your indulgence. YOU know exactly what you are thinking of while the many folks you send off on a search may even find your site but not recognize it as such.
Much better to be link-worthy.
I suspect you agree and post the link accordingly. Ragging on me is just a secondary impulse.
PS–the link finally loaded on my shitty router. I spoke too soon. You want all your readers to plow thru over 300 pages to find whatever you think says what you say? – – very weak. I used the book search function for “intelligence” and it does not show any near reference to correlation.
Now, good thing I have seen several posts that did contain good links to this post, otherwise, I would think you are a liar. Instead, I only think you are lazy.
bobbo, I agree with Noel’s position but I think that the correlation argument is weak. And I do think that causation is implied in the argument although not explicitly stated.
However I don’t need logic or stats to convince me of the horrors that religion (or any other dogmatic position) has inflicted on humans throughout history. And before I hear the whole communist/atheist argument again I think that Stalinist Russia and the Khmer Rouge are in the same category as the Inquisition and the Taliban.
#36: “Who else but Atheists exterminates entire groups of people because the believe in God?”
Many dominant religions exterminate entire groups of people, either because they believe in the wrong deity, or because the don’t worship that deity the same way that the dominant religion does.
#38–QB==you are operating at a level of subtlety that is beyond my power to grasp.
I see Noels position as “there is a correlation.” How you parse the position to agree with it and yet opine the correlation is weak, is nonsensical to me.
But you must be thinking of something? So, I’ll give it to you and question my own abilities.
Not so with Mustard and all things defined in the dictionary. I too refuse to enter that morass.
Mustard–you did go where I thought you would. Points for consistency, but you have to get inconsistent to learn anything.
Noel–bobbo is not my name. It is my Dvorak required “Usename”–something else entirely.
Floyd, that’s not what I asked. I asked “Who else but Atheists exterminates entire groups of people because they believe in God?”
I’m not talking about interfaith squabbling, I’m talking about mass extermination for belife in God.
Do you have an answer?
I’m just saying that I agree with his views about atheism, but I just think we can come up with a better argument. Heck, if we’re that smart we ought to… 😉
#38 – Cubie
>>I don’t need logic or stats to convince me of
>>the horrors that religion (or any other
>>dogmatic position) has inflicted on humans
>>throughout history.
By the same token, I don’t need stats (although logic [the non-Bobbolinian kind] can be useful) to convince me of the good that spiritually-motivated people have done throughout history.
The whole “we’re smart, hip, happening, groovy, edgy, slightly dangerous and non-conformist because we worship at the Altar of Richard Dawkins” thing got real old, real fast.
Let’s just concede that there are assholes among adherents to every belief, be it Islam, Christianity, Wicca, or Atheism.
#37-bobbo,
My initial suggestion was actually to go to the library and read this excellent book at ones leisure.
While ragging on you was actually my first impulse,(could I not say the same about you in post #31?) I do agree that a link to a source should be provided if possible. My source however was a book, so I directed anyone wishing to take a very informative read, to their local public library.
I’m sorry that the book clogged up your internet connection. As to correlation, a very large portion of the book has been removed by google books. I should have warned all who clicked about the dangers of loading approximately 1/3 of a long book. You can however use the links on the right side of that page to purchase yourself a copy, or check one out at your local public library.
I am rather lazy, but evidently not too lazy to read “thru over 300 pages”. I still recommend the book, and am sorry that my source is not more accessible to you.
Mustard, that’s an easy sell. Personally I think that Gandhi was probably the greatest figure of the 20th century, and I would consider him highly spiritual.
However, when I think of the pointless and painful death that this 14 year old endured I am wondering:
1. Would this happen to non-religious person? Possible, but unlikely.
2. Where were the compassionate and thinking Christians who did nothing to prevent this religious based abomination?
You can argue that it’s a perversion of religion. However, I think it’s a perversion of spirituality, but a natural extension of religion and dogma.
For anyone’s reference, the issue is covered by the wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religiosity_and_intelligence
Noel is right. I’ve glanced through the book and it looks like a terrific real, even for the non-atheists in the crowd.
#38-QB,
You are absolutely right about the Khmer Rouge. They perpetrated the (proportionally) most horrific genocide of the 20th century. Not really in the name of atheism, but with religious intolerance towards all groups as a consequence. You might notice that they also buck the trend in terms of correlating intelligence to alack of religion, you will note that they firmly took the position that ignorance was a good thing and assassinated intellectuals.
Similar things can be said about the (so called) communist party in the Stalinist era of Russia. One might come to the conclusion that state-enforced religion or atheism is not a good thing.
#41-Mister Mustard,
Well, Mister Mustard, I think you know that there is no answer to our question aside from the one that you have already proposed, but could someone not turn right back to you and ask “Who in the world has perpetrated a holocaust in the name of Jesus except Christians”?
46 – Bobster
>>For anyone’s reference, the issue is
>>covered by the wiki:
“Multiple studies have been undertaken to examine these relationships, with differing and controversial results.”
Thanks for making my point for me with your quote, compadre.
#48 – Noel
>>“Who in the world has perpetrated a holocaust
>>in the name of Jesus except Christians”
Well, that’s silly. Who in the world has perpetrated a holocaust in the name of white folks beside Adolph Hitler?. Shall we condemn all white people as Nazis?
And, to Hitler’s credit, there’s nothing in the canons of Whitedom that says “thou shalt not kill” or “love thy neighbor”. So he wasn’t even violating any of the Rules of Whitey.
Self-proclaimed “Christians” who perpetrate holocausts are no more Christian than I am a 9-year-old Hindu boy.
#50-Mister Mustard,
I don’t know that I agree with you about nazis and other self-professed Christians who perpetrate genocides not really being Christians, but they certainly are not in the general spirit of the thing. You might note that the problem that Hitler had with Jews was not their whiteness, as German Jews were generally white, but their religion. This leads me to believe that your comment about “the canons of Whitedom” is a complete non-sequitur. If your argument carries on in this fashion, perhaps you will answer your initial question, and realize that Hitler carried out a mass murder of epic scale because Jews believed in god, (that is to say, not because they believe in differing gods).
It is unfair to say that any Christian who does anything horrific is automatically not a Christian. I am not trying to condemn all white people as Nazis. Nor I’m sure are you trying to say that all atheists are Stalinists. I am merely trying to express that only Christians can kill in the name of Jesus, just the same way that you think only atheists can kill people for believing in a god (discounting all religious people for reasons unknown to me).
You only say that Hitler and his Nazis are the sole perpetrators (in the name of Jesus) of mass human extermination because I used the word holocaust, what if I were to use its synonym, genocide?
One less idiot on the planet. This can only be a good thing.
Godwin’s Law is proven yet again.
More CHILD ABUSE BY “CHRISTIANS” !!! Kid was a victim of CULT BRAIN-WASHING !!!
A good thing, because if the kid survived he still would have grown up to be a jesus monkey, and giving his kids that same sick twisted theological death cult.
If he was not then eaten, this would fall squarely in the middle of the religious belief crazy spectrum.
It is a strange world we live in, when ‘having faith’ can be detrimental to your health. Not being what one could honestly say a ‘practicing Christian,’ it really is not my place to condemn or condone the actions, however, it really does not seem that these ‘non-mainstream’ religions always have the best interests of their membership in mind, when making up their rules.
I, personally, think that religion, along with other good things in life, should be taken in moderation and not be allowed to be the main focus or reason of existence.
I grew up in this church. There aren’t many who leave. It is sick. It is sad. But the truth is, these aren’t bad people, they are just so stuck in their belief that nothing, no one, not even the loss of a child, will ever sway them from their “fear” of God. I am so glad that I was taken out early, otherwise this could have been me.